What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

[Secret Chief]

To be an atheist one has to have at least the ability to reason. Now using that a baby may not be an atheist because reasoning is beyond it.. And since the ability to reason is an emergent process as we grow it is hard to say when a person can first reason, but it is likely before they can talk. So by that standard at that point a baby would be an atheist. Though perhaps one could argue that adults and especially their parents would be "god" to them. But perhaps the argument should just be dropped.

Then we basically agree, it can arise with cognitive development. My post was in response to "it's the default condition, you are born with it." (emphasis mine)

 

[SalixIncendium]

What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

Lack of belief in deity.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Newborns are indeed atheists, far as anyone can tell. So are rocks.

If we wish to include infants but exclude rocks, we can define an atheist as a person with no god belief. That also excludes dogs. If we wish to exclude infants as well, we can define atheist as a person who answers no to the question of whether he believes in a god or gods. The theists like to make the number even smaller by claiming that atheists are people who positively claim that gods don't exist, but most atheists simply disregard them. I do. That definition excludes most of us including me.

It's not really a lack as such of anything normal. Like toes.

Don't you just hate those people? I find myself intolerant of them.

I'm an atheist...definitely not an anti-theist.

I am not an enemy of theists or theism, nor of religion - just theocracy, or religion in government, which in my world is Christianity. I call myself an antitheist for that reason for lack of a better word, but really, as if Christianity disappears from Western liberal, democratic, and allegedly secular government tomorrow, I wouldn't give it another thought or post, because why would I?

Arrogance, mostly. Atheists think that if any gods exist, they would know of it. They don't know, so they assume gods don't exist.

You still make these strawman arguments. They make your other posting on atheism irrelevant to atheists.

theism is a philosophocal position and atheism is the antithetical to that position

That depends on whether by antithetical you mean the opposite of a theist or the complement. The opposite of somebody who believes a god or gods exists is someone who believe they don't, or the strong atheist. Atheism also includes agnostic atheists, who, with the strong atheists, make up the complementary set to theism.

But most atheists are too weak-minded and spineless to defend that antithetical position as they demand the theist must do, so they pretend atheism just means 'mindless skepticism'.

Most atheists are weak-minded? Maybe you'd like to rethink that comment.

I don't expect any feedback from you on this as is your habit, although it would be welcome and even encouraged. Did you want to say anything about that opinion, or are you satisfied with it whether because you agree or have no response?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Also: all YEC are conspiracy theorists...

Explain.

 

[LuisDantas]

So Mars is a very big atheist then?

Or many. Depends on how you count them. Or none.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Explain.

I think I understand. Since all of the sciences refute a young Earth they have to come up with a conspiracy theory to explain why all honest scientists only support an old Earth. Just as those that oppose AGW have to try to claim that there is a conspiracy among climate scientists since all of that dang evidence only supports AGW.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, yeah, technically it is, as theism is a philosophocal position and atheism is the antithetical to that position. But most atheists are too weak-minded and spineless to defend that antithetical position as they demand the theist must do, so they pretend atheism just means 'mindless skepticism'. It's quite sad, really. And they've all been telling each other this nonsense so repetitiously that they totally believe it, now. And they huff and puff, and stomp and growl at anyone that dares to suggest otherwise. Watch and see!

Uh, no.

 

[Secret Chief]

Or many. Depends on how you count them. Or none.

Obviously it's none imo, albeit a ridiculous notion in the first place.

You said

"Newborns are indeed atheists, far as anyone can tell. So are rocks."

So what do you say about Mars? It consists of one or it consists of many?

 

[Yerda]

The capacity to think

Arrogance, mostly.

Atheists think that if any gods exist, they would know of it. They don't know, so they assume gods don't exist.

We could probably end energy scarcity if we locked these two in a room.

 

[Heyo]

OK I read your post again, I see nothing different. Imo, a newborn baby is not (and cannot be at that time) an atheist (or an Atheist). It has made no evaluation, it has not been persuaded, it has not been indoctrinated...

To be an atheist one has to have at least the ability to reason. Now using that a baby may not be an atheist because reasoning is beyond it.. And since the ability to reason is an emergent process as we grow it is hard to say when a person can first reason, but it is likely before they can talk. So by that standard at that point a baby would be an atheist. Though perhaps one could argue that adults and especially their parents would be "god" to them. But perhaps the argument should just be dropped.

Depends on your definition, some atheists hold that not believing in god(s) makes anyone/anything an atheists - including rocks. That is the most including definition. There are others, @It Aint Necessarily So listed the possibilities perfectly:

If we wish to include infants but exclude rocks, we can define an atheist as a person with no god belief. That also excludes dogs. If we wish to exclude infants as well, we can define atheist as a person who answers no to the question of whether he believes in a god or gods. The theists like to make the number even smaller by claiming that atheists are people who positively claim that gods don't exist, but most atheists simply disregard them. I do. That definition excludes most of us including me.

I certainly consider A/atheism to be a position; it is a position (denoted by the a- ) in regard to a specific idea. And so obviously - for me - the idea that a rock or a stone is atheistic is frankly ridiculous. On that basis, all the matter in the universe (except that currently constituting theists) is atheistic.

Atheism is a position, atheism is not. If you say that there are no gods, you make a claim about the outside world and you have a burden of proof. If you simply say that you don't believe in god(s), it is only a statement about your inner state. There is no falsifiable claim and no burden of proof. That is not a position, it is a lack of one.

 

[Audie]

If we wish to include infants but exclude rocks, we can define an atheist as a person with no god belief. That also excludes dogs. If we wish to exclude infants as well, we can define atheist as a person who answers no to the question of whether he believes in a god or gods. The theists like to make the number even smaller by claiming that atheists are people who positively claim that gods don't exist, but most atheists simply disregard them. I do. That definition excludes most of us including me.

Don't you just hate those people? I find myself intolerant of them.

I am not an enemy of theists or theism, nor of religion - just theocracy, or religion in government, which in my world is Christianity. I call myself an antitheist for that reason for lack of a better word, but really, as if Christianity disappears from Western liberal, democratic, and allegedly secular government tomorrow, I wouldn't give it another thought or post, because why would I?

You still make these strawman arguments. They make your other posting on atheism irrelevant to atheists.

That depends on whether by antithetical you mean the opposite of a theist or the complement. The opposite of somebody who believes a god or gods exists is someone who believe they don't, or the strong atheist. Atheism also includes agnostic atheists, who, with the strong atheists, make up the complementary set to theism.

Most atheists are weak-minded? Maybe you'd like to rethink that comment.

I don't expect any feedback from you on this as is your habit, although it would be welcome and even encouraged. Did you want to say anything about that opinion, or are you satisfied with it whether because you agree or have no response?

You are right. Pobbles are despicable.

Nearly as bad as the fantasy- atheists
that infest your friend's imagination.

 

[Heyo]

Explain.

Thesis: YEC are Conspiracy Theorists

I'm recycling an other OP I made on an other forum where the above thesis was generally accepted, even by YEC. But in good scientific manner, an experiment has to be repeatable. So my challenge is: show how someone, with an at least average education about the facts and sans a serious case of...

www.religiousforums.com

I think I was able to defend my thesis.

 

[Audie]

We could probably end energy scarcity if we locked these two in a room.

Not for long.

See "blue flash"

 

[ChristineM]

Not for long.

See "blue flash"

Oh sis, thats shocking

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think I understand. Since all of the sciences refute a young Earth they have to come up with a conspiracy theory to explain why all honest scientists only support an old Earth. Just as those that oppose AGW have to try to claim that there is a conspiracy among climate scientists since all of that dang evidence only supports AGW.

Interesting. I've never heard this.

I'd like to start a poll exclusively for young earth creationists to determine if this is, indeed, the case. I'd first to see what this would look like, or if it would be even possible to conduct such a poll here without subjecting them to ridicule and abuse...you know, the way this thread does.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Thesis: YEC are Conspiracy Theorists

I'm recycling an other OP I made on an other forum where the above thesis was generally accepted, even by YEC. But in good scientific manner, an experiment has to be repeatable. So my challenge is: show how someone, with an at least average education about the facts and sans a serious case of...

www.religiousforums.com

I think I was able to defend my thesis.

I'll have to read through that thread when I have more time.

 

[Secret Chief]

Depends on your definition, some atheists hold that not believing in god(s) makes anyone/anything an atheists - including rocks.

If I ever see a dictionary definition that refers to rocks, I'll reassess my opinion. I'm fine with atheism simply meaning a lack of belief in gods, (upper or lower case is somewhat of a nuance too far for me) I often see atheists on this forum say the very same thing.

 

[Secret Chief]

Atheism is a position, atheism is not.

I've yet to see a sentence where the first word of it refers soley to the latter.

 

[LuisDantas]

Obviously it's none imo, albeit a ridiculous notion in the first place.

You said

"Newborns are indeed atheists, far as anyone can tell. So are rocks."

So what do you say about Mars? It consists of one or it consists of many?

Whether it is ridiculous is both irrelevant and a direct function of expectations.

There is no good reason to mistify atheism. It is a very simple thing and should be acknowledged as such.

 

[sun rise]

But maybe there is a intellectual religion.

Depending how you define Buddhism and religion, it is an intellectual religion Is Buddhism a Religion? – Lions Roar

It is based on observation that there is suffering and that certain thoughts, words and deeds cause suffering. The third principle is that it's possible to overcome suffering and the 4th is how to do it which is expressed as 8 elements. These include remembering that actions have consequences, having the right intention about actions, being careful about what one says and so forth.

Of course, there are Buddhists who bring in a lot more including the Tibetans but the essence is simple and straight forward

To be an atheist one has to have at least the ability to reason.

In my case reason was not involved. I grew up as an atheist and never thought about it until when I was in college.