What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

[Link]

I think the term atheist is a loaded argument, and I don't believe in the truest sense of the word, any atheists exist.

By Arabic language, "god" is the highest thing valued. Exalted is the next level of valuing. Then seeing a being as great is the next level.

The Quran does talk about a people who believe nothing but time destroys humans, and so they would be atheist but the language of Quran does not allow there to be an atheist.

This is because even talks about those who their caprice is their god.

That is to say, even a nihilist who values pleasure - if he doesn't believe in value or meaning - than that would be their god.

Atheist definition is a loaded term about "gods". No one says are there people who "don't believe in air". Cause air is everywhere. Like wise, everyone values something with the highest amount of valuing. Even if an atheist values humans as the highest type of life and does not believe anything beyond that, then humans are gods per their view.

If a theist acts for showing off to people and cares what people think more than God or as much as God, he worships them per some hadiths and will be accounted as a polytheist on day of judgment.

They were better off picking a term such as "asupernaturalist" (without belief in the super natural) or something on those lines. But the term is loaded and complicates the definition of worship.

 

[metis]

What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

Adding an "a".

 

[Secret Chief]

Whether it is ridiculous is both irrelevant and a direct function of expectations.

There is no good reason to mistify atheism. It is a very simple thing and should be acknowledged as such.

I agree.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

It is simply a non belief in any gods. That's it.

 

[ChristineM]

I think the term atheist is a loaded argument, and I don't believe in the truest sense of the word, any atheists exist.

I can assure you that i exist

 

[LuisDantas]

I think the term atheist is a loaded argument, and I don't believe in the truest sense of the word, any atheists exist.

Odd. Let's see if we can find some common ground of understanding ahead in your post.

By Arabic language, "god" is the highest thing valued. Exalted is the next level of valuing. Then seeing a being as great is the next level.

Not sure I understood what you just said here. Are you saying that "god" is not a supernatural being but instead a word for a certain level of value?

And that "exalted" and "great" are the two next higher levels of value, presumably "beyond value" somehow?

The Quran does talk about a people who believe nothing but time destroys humans, and so they would be atheist but the language of Quran does not allow there to be an atheist.

The Qur'an is indeed famous for its inability to distinguish atheism from other, unrelated ideas and concepts.

Not sure why anyone would believe that "nothing but time" destroys humans, nor why that would be a form of atheism, though.

This is because even talks about those who their caprice is their god.

That is to say, even a nihilist who values pleasure - if he doesn't believe in value or meaning - than that would be their god.

The curious implication would be that the Qur'an is enthusiastic to a serious fault about promoting idolatry.

Or maybe it is fairer and more proper to just note that the use of god-concepts in the Qur'an is not very consistent nor very useful, despite its obsession with those concepts.

In all honesty, I fail to see how anyone could possibly take the Qur'an's references to deities at all seriously. It seems just... confused about the whole matter. It truly does.

Atheist definition is a loaded term about "gods". No one says are there people who "don't believe in air". Cause air is everywhere. Like wise, everyone values something with the highest amount of valuing. Even if an atheist values humans as the highest type of life and does not believe anything beyond that, then humans are gods per their view.

So... are you saying that the Qur'an is indeed enthusiastic about idolatry, to the point of making the idea of "god" meaningless?

I could actually agree with that, but Muslims don't seem to generally agree. Of more significance is that they don't seem to realize the logical, religious and ethical implications.

If a theist acts for showing off to people and cares what people think more than God or as much as God, he worships them per some hadiths and will be accounted as a polytheist on day of judgment.

Which is apparently a serious danger according to the Qur'an, despite... not making any sense whatsoever under these premises.

They were better off picking a term such as "asupernaturalist" (without belief in the super natural) or something on those lines. But the term is loaded and complicates the definition of worship.

What is your take on how the Qur'an views naturalism / materialism?

 

[Audie]

Depending how you define Buddhism and religion, it is an intellectual religion Is Buddhism a Religion? – Lions Roar

It is based on observation that there is suffering and that certain thoughts, words and deeds cause suffering. The third principle is that it's possible to overcome suffering and the 4th is how to do it which is expressed as 8 elements. These include remembering that actions have consequences, having the right intention about actions, being careful about what one says and so forth.

Of course, there are Buddhists who bring in a lot more including the Tibetans but the essence is simple and straight forward



In my case reason was not involved. I grew up as an atheist and never thought about it until when I was in college.

I've a lot of Buddhists in my extended family.

I've plenty of respect for them. And the nonreligious religion.

For the integrity of American style
fundamentalism- Zero.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

You have that wrong: an atheist is not made, an atheist is born. Every child that has ever been born to humans began life as an atheist.

Every one of them was also born with a predisposition to believe and learn from their parents and community -- a necessity for their own survival. And when parents believe (because they believed their parents, and so on and so on) in gods, they teach their children to believe in gods. Even more, they teach them lots and lots and lots of utterly unprovable things about those gods -- what they want, how to appease them, what not to do to anger them, what to eat, what bits of a baby's body should be snipped off (or not), who you can love (often in what position and under what circumstances), and much, much more.

No atheists are not made -- theists, every brand of them, are.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

So are you an atheist or an Atheist?

Definitely a small 'a' atheist.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

@It Aint Necessarily So

You sound more like a strident secularist than an anti-theist to me.

 

[Link]

Are you saying that "god" is not a supernatural being but instead a word for a certain level of value?

And that "exalted" and "great" are the two next higher levels of value, presumably "beyond value" somehow?

Correct: Valued < respected < honored/deemed great < exalted < worshiped

The term "god" is used two ways in Quran, that which is worshiped and that which ought to be worshiped.

When Quran says there is no God besides God, it means, there is no being that should be valued on par with God and that God is far above all exalted beings that the word for reverence at the highest level should be unique towards him.

These words are relative to one another. So if you value at all, there is grades of what you value most to what you value least.

The Qur'an is indeed famous for its inability to distinguish atheism from other, unrelated ideas and concepts.

Not sure why anyone would believe that "nothing but time" destroys humans, nor why that would be a form of atheism, though.

If it's famous for that - then it's another thing people are ignorant upon with regards to it. The Quran has arguments for God's existence.

"nothing but time" is just an expression it's just material realm ie. events in linear time that causes humans to perish, and there is no hell or heaven, and no accounting for deeds.

What is your take on how the Qur'an views naturalism / materialism?

The Quran is for all of mankind. So all views humans have - must be accounted for. There is too many individual philosophies and views to name them all, but it addresses all of them. And it's layered that it can guide any human looking for guidance. For example a person who does not believe in the supernatural, it can make detect his soul and God and many unseen realities, it can remind him of how he knows these things exist. In my view, it has picked what I've labeled as "the argument from God's vision", as the primary reminder to people who are naturalist or materialists. But that has short and elaborated versions. In a real sense, there is no end to this argument in terms of how much you can elaborate about it. But it reminds of it in a short and sweet way too.

 

[LuisDantas]

Correct: Valued < respected < honored/deemed great < exalted < worshiped

The term "god" is used two ways in Quran, that which is worshiped and that which ought to be worshiped.

When Quran says there is no God besides God, it means, there is no being that should be valued on par with God and that God is far above all exalted beings that the word for reverence at the highest level should be unique towards him.

It seems to me that you are agreeing that the Qur'an promotes idolatry. More than that, it makes idolatry of its very specific, very authoritarian brand of deity its main moral value.

I don't think that can be made to work as part of a real religion.

These words are relative to one another. So if you value at all, there is grades of what you value most to what you value least.

If it's famous for that

It is indeed, plenty deservedly so. Most other doctrines have at least some idea of what atheism, unfaithfulness, polytheism and paganism are. The Qur'an conflates all four (rather dissimilar) concepts.

- then it's another people are ignorant upon. The Quran has arguments for God's existence.

Claims. Statements, perhaps. Not arguments.

"nothing but time" is just an expression it's just material realm ie. events in linear time that causes humans to perish, and there is no hell or heaven, and no accounting for deeds.

Anyone who is not a very literal Abrahamics then. As well as some who are literal Abrahamics.

I guess about 5 billion people are atheists according to the Qur'an then. That is nice to know.

The Quran is for all of mankind. So all views humans have - must be accounted for. There is too many individual philosophies and views to name them all, but it addresses all of them. And it's layered that it can guide any human looking for guidance. For example a person who does not believe in the supernatural, it can make detect his soul and God and many unseen realities, it can remind him of how he knows these things exist. In my view, it has picked what I've labeled as "the argument from God's vision", as the primary reminder to people who are naturalist or materialists. But that has short and elaborated versions. In a real sense, there is no end to this argument in terms of how much you can elaborate about it. But it reminds of it in a short and sweet way too.

Sorry, but you are very much mistaken. The Qur'an falls way, way short from being remotely applicable for all mankind.

In all honesty, it is not even well aware of the nature of religion, god-belief, or human beings.

I'm okay with that, but I also accept that the consequence is a duty to ward off against it lest we all become seriously misguided.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But maybe there is a intellectual religion.

My version of Advaita Hinduism is purely intellectual. No God, no soul, and no to all related phenomena.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Quran does talk about a people who believe nothing but time destroys humans, and so they would be atheist but the language of Quran does not allow there to be an atheist.
Like wise, everyone values something with the highest amount of valuing.
.. he worships them per some hadiths and will be accounted as a polytheist on day of judgment.

Not everyone takes Quran as word of any God, you don't get any mileage by quoting Quran. It is not Iranian, it belongs to 7th Century Arabia. Why are you enamored of it?
Yeah, why would Quran allow an atheist who does not believe in Muhammad's God and does not give him 20% of the loot? Hadiths mention that he beheaded such people.
You are correct. For me, 'physical energy' is the highest principle. I don't worship 'physical energy'.
What evidence has Quran or Muhammad given for the day of judgment? If I take 'physical energy' to be the sole highest principle, why would I be accounted as a polytheist?

 

[Valjean]

What makes somebody atheist and not a theist?

Everyone starts out atheist. It's the epistemic default.

A better question would be: What makes someone a theist? How does one become completely convinced of something with so little objective evidence, so many different variations, and so many fantastical, counter-intuitive claims?

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. and that God is far above all exalted beings that the word for reverence at the highest level should be unique towards him.
The Quran has arguments for God's existence.
.. ie. events in linear time that causes humans to perish, and there is no hell or heaven, and no accounting for deeds.

The Quran is for all of mankind. For example a person who does not believe in the supernatural, it can make detect his soul and God and many unseen realities, it can remind him of how he knows these things exist. In my view, it has picked what I've labeled as "the argument from God's vision",

If you were able to give any evidence for God, I would do that.
If Quran has evidence, you have never pointed to it. Kindly tell me of that.
Again, what evidence do you have for it?
Yeah, 'Lolita' also is for all of mankind. Anyone can read it.
I have read Quran and I still do not believe in any supernatural, God or soul. Kindly tell me as to how I can detect my soul or your God?
I do not care about "the argument from your God's vision'. Tell me of any argument 'from my vision'.

 

[PureX]

OK I read your post again, I see nothing different. Imo, a newborn baby is not (and cannot be at that time) an atheist (or an Atheist). It has made no evaluation, it has not been persuaded, it has not been indoctrinated...
I certainly consider A/atheism to be a position; it is a position (denoted by the a- ) in regard to a specific idea. And so obviously - for me - the idea that a rock or a stone is atheistic is frankly ridiculous. On that basis, all the matter in the universe (except that currently constituting theists) is atheistic.

Once they render the term meaningless by removing any and all actual content (that they would have to defend) the term itself becomes irrelevant. So sure rocks and unicorns and babies are all "atheists". Why not? And yet they continue to assert their own atheism it as if it represents some great wisdom and truth on their part.

It's ridiculous.

 

[ChristineM]

Once they render the term meaningless by removing any and all actual content (that they would have to defend) the term itself becomes irrelevant. So sure rocks and unicorns and babies are all "atheists". Why not? And yet they continue to assert their own atheism it as if it represents some great wisdom and truth on their part.

It's ridiculous.

I have never, ever heard an atheist "assert their own atheism" except in defence against idiots who don't understand it or deliberately misrepresent it.

So please provide evidence of your claim, links will do.

 

[Audie]

I have never, ever heard an atheist "assert their own atheism" except in defence against idiots who don't understand it or deliberately misrepresent it.

So please provide evidence of your claim, links will do.

The assertion, delivered as if
wise and true, is all you will ever get.

Same as the " scientism" thing.
No examples exist, none will be
given.

 

[ChristineM]

The assertion, delivered as if
wise and true, is all you will ever get.

Same as the " scientism" thing.
No examples exist, none will be
given.

Yes i know, I've been trying for years for him to provide evidence of his claims..
Without any success