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What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
:D. You have just made a very convincing argument for why religions who use blind faith and worship as a necessity are not to be taken seriously. Luciferian Philosophy seems to make sense to me, especially in this respect. I have always felt that Lucifer receives a bad rap in all of the religions that espouse the existence of him. Not that I believe in any of it. Just that if I were to believe, I would question the whole Lucifer/God relationship a bit more than the God-fearing religious types do.

Maybe because lucifer is reasonable, lucifer recognises human imperfection and does not punish us, rather encourages us to be ourselves. The only downside is putting up with the earbashing from the faithful who think our way of thinking is blasphemous because we do not submit ourselves as a slave to our masters.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Maybe because lucifer is reasonable, lucifer recognises human imperfection and does not punish us, rather encourages us to be ourselves. The only downside is putting up with the earbashing from the faithful who think our way of thinking is blasphemous because we do not submit ourselves as a slave to our masters.
Works for me. :drool:
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
darkendless said:
Maybe because lucifer is reasonable, lucifer recognises human imperfection and does not punish us, rather encourages us to be ourselves. The only downside is putting up with the earbashing from the faithful who think our way of thinking is blasphemous because we do not submit ourselves as a slave to our masters.

Godist View: God creates imperfect man and then punishes man for being imperfect, sometimes with eternal damnation.

Luciferian View: Humans are imperfect and we should treat them as imperfect beings.

Note: I am not accusing all Theists as following the Godist view. It is precisely for this reason, I can am not anti-religious.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
These are Luciferian philosophies that I also agree with. I don't doubt the coincidence that we have attached the name 'bringer of light' to the one who brought us knowledge. I'm not surprised that he is frowned upon by God; when Prometheus saw mankind shivering and eating cold meat, he stole the Fire from the jealous gods and gave it to mankind; how did Zeus react? First, he chained Prometheus to a cliff to have his liver eternally eaten by crows; then to mankind he sent ever-curious Pandora with her box to earth, instructing her never to open it, and when she peaks in out of curiosity, she unleashes all the evils upon mankind.

So, who's really to fault for our imperfections? Ever-jealous God, or the one who in trying to help us ended up in eternal condemnation? (I do equate Prometheus with Lucifer.)
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
These are Luciferian philosophies that I also agree with. I don't doubt the coincidence that we have attached the name 'bringer of light' to the one who brought us knowledge. I'm not surprised that he is frowned upon by God; when Prometheus saw mankind shivering and eating cold meat, he stole the Fire from the jealous gods and gave it to mankind; how did Zeus react? First, he chained Prometheus to a cliff to have his liver eternally eaten by crows; then to mankind he sent ever-curious Pandora with her box to earth, instructing her never to open it, and when she peaks in out of curiosity, she unleashes all the evils upon mankind.

So, who's really to fault for our imperfections? Ever-jealous God, or the one who in trying to help us ended up in eternal condemnation? (I do equate Prometheus with Lucifer.)

Is he trying to help us, or make us suffer for the imperfections he placed upon us? Lucifer helps us to live with these perfections, to make us aware that we are afterall human. As followers of the left hand path we can appreciate this, but at least try to make ourselves the best we can be.
God makes us suffer, to submit, and to restrict just to please him. Why on earth would we want to please such a mean God? For rewards? What rewards? Heaven? Wishful thinking at best.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
[2:286] On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns...

soul = ego


.
 

rn586

New Member
Well the thing is that islam has been misinterpret my ppl who think they know and couse confusion. There is ONE god and muhammod is his prophet it even states in the bible. I'll show u in u want!!!
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
[2:286] On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns...

soul = ego


.

That seems to me a very profound interpretation of soul.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
There's clearly a contrast between two conceptions of God here.

The one from Abraham, used by Christianity and by Islam, is often understood (wrongly or otherwise) to "know better", implying that one should accept one's own fate gracefully because God somehow chose to give us whatever challenges we meet. Some people (mainly segments of Christianity) restrict that certainty to those who "accept God" and believe that "non-believers" may well be punished beyond any reasonable degree.

I won't say that such a notion is wrong per se. I will, however, definitely say that it is dangerous, if not balanced with enough wisdom.

The second, the Luciferianist perspective, apparently doesn't bother with expecting any mysterious plans, salvation or transcendental qualities from a God. It allows for or perhaps assumes that there are (for lack of a better expression) "mysterious forces at work", but altogether rejects the passive religious strategy of choosing one belief to adhere to and hoping for Gods' favor. To the extent that I understand it, this perspective instead chooses to work with the lemons that life throws at it and learn to make the best lemonade it can, discarding any opportunities for gratuituous guilt that it finds along the way.

I would really appreciate it if you who are participating in this thread correct me in this analysis above.

Somewhat in spite of myself, I must clearly state that if a choice is needed, I definitely choose the second approach instead of the first. I don't think that the God of Abraham must be followed in such a resigned and submissive way, but I am pretty certain that the way of submission is both immature and dangerous. That's probably a challenge that Islam will have to face soon rather than later (Islam literally means "submission"). Submission is great for avoiding conflicts with those others who accept the same common authority, but it just doesn't accomplish much else - and we've reached a point in history where much else is indeed needed from a religion, any religion.

That said, and even recognizing that there is a clear parallel between the idea of learning to bring one's own light and my own core beliefs, I must say also that the idea of a LHP doesn't necessarily makes much sense to me. Perhaps it is just a matter of terminology, or perhaps there is a greater need than I recognize for clearly stating that one is not following what I am calling "the way of submission". But the terminology of the LHP often puzzles me, leading me to wonder how exactly they feel about religion, individual choices and even the legitimacy of what they call the "Right Hand Path". Sometimes it looks like there is an unfortunate tendency to present themselves as rebellious, somewhat reinforcing the stereotypes that we probably should strive to dissolve. I'm not sure there is a reason for even being such a distinction between LHP and RHP even. To the best of my knowledge it is a fairly recent invention that involves a hefty degree of cultural misunderstanding at its core.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
That said, and even recognizing that there is a clear parallel between the idea of learning to bring one's own light and my own core beliefs, I must say also that the idea of a LHP doesn't necessarily makes much sense to me. Perhaps it is just a matter of terminology, or perhaps there is a greater need than I recognize for clearly stating that one is not following what I am calling "the way of submission". But the terminology of the LHP often puzzles me, leading me to wonder how exactly they feel about religion, individual choices and even the legitimacy of what they call the "Right Hand Path". Sometimes it looks like there is an unfortunate tendency to present themselves as rebellious, somewhat reinforcing the stereotypes that we probably should strive to dissolve. I'm not sure there is a reason for even being such a distinction between LHP and RHP even. To the best of my knowledge it is a fairly recent invention that involves a hefty degree of cultural misunderstanding at its core.

Satan and rebellion often go hand in hand. I will not deny it i had that rebellious stage. I think rebellion represents misunderstanding, or lack of understanding of what the satanic bible is representing. I no longer see satanism as hating Christianity, rather as an alternative path. I do not see factions lining up against eachother, but the same thing potrayed in different paths. However, im not a believer in higher powers, so i simply use a few of the fundamentals from satanism.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It is probably a chore to communicate your beliefs with other LHPs.

Then again, I am pretty certain that Christians and Muslims have just as hard a time doing so, even if they often fail to notice. Religion is all about meeting the best balance between individual and community, yet we often mistake it with the expression of some of the two poles.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
It is probably a chore to communicate your beliefs with other LHPs.

Then again, I am pretty certain that Christians and Muslims have just as hard a time doing so, even if they often fail to notice. Religion is all about meeting the best balance between individual and community, yet we often mistake it with the expression of some of the two poles.

it was said 'it is only his skin that dies'. there are very deep meanings of this saying. it represents the highest level of submission. however i would like to use it here because IMO it matches with what you're saying about individual and community. what is within me is what i find around me. outside and inside worlds are not apart (or they are just 'a skin' away) and what's around me depends on what i have within. unfortunately it works other way around with most of people. they think they feel bad or sad because s'he said this, did that. so they blame others. when you blame others for your unhappiness, you might not make them happy. happiness comes from making other people happy. only if we could realize dynamics work exactly the opposite way then we would not blame others for our suffering. instead we would cure our diseases like hatred, rage,...etc. i believe you can easily understand how much one loves and cares for himself & God, only by seeing how much love he offers to people around him. if each could dedicate himself for happiness of others, that would be perfect society. this is how religion of Abraham (PBUH) is practiced. this is what i am taught. i sure have no doubt about it.


.
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
LuisDantas said:
The second, the Luciferianist perspective, apparently doesn't bother with expecting any mysterious plans, salvation or transcendental qualities from a God. It allows for or perhaps assumes that there are (for lack of a better expression) "mysterious forces at work", but altogether rejects the passive religious strategy of choosing one belief to adhere to and hoping for Gods' favor. To the extent that I understand it, this perspective instead chooses to work with the lemons that life throws at it and learn to make the best lemonade it can, discarding any opportunities for gratuituous guilt that it finds along the way.

Luciferianism embraces man's imperfection. We believe that perfection, as it is understood, would be utterly boring. Imperfection is perfection. That is not to say we shouldn't improve ourselves. Luciferianism is all about the Mastery of the Self; however, we recognize the need for the darker side of nature.

" want to remind you that you are all Popes. You are all you own highest authority. You are the source of your action. You choose your values - whether you do so actively or by default. You choose what to believe, how strongly to believe, and what you will take as disconfirming evidence. No one has authority over you - you are your own authority, your own value-chooser, your own thinker." -- In Praise of the Devil

.lava said:
it was said 'it is only his skin that dies'. there are very deep meanings of this saying. it represents the highest level of submission. however i would like to use it here because IMO it matches with what you're saying about individual and community. what is within me is what i find around me. outside and inside worlds are not apart (or they are just 'a skin' away) and what's around me depends on what i have within. unfortunately it works other way around with most of people. they think they feel bad or sad because s'he said this, did that. so they blame others. when you blame others for your unhappiness, you might not make them happy. happiness comes from making other people happy. only if we could realize dynamics work exactly the opposite way then we would not blame others for our suffering. instead we would cure our diseases like hatred, rage,...etc. i believe you can easily understand how much one loves and cares for himself & God, only by seeing how much love he offers to people around him. if each could dedicate himself for happiness of others, that would be perfect society. this is how religion of Abraham (PBUH) is practiced. this is what i am taught. i sure have no doubt about it.

Does this love and kindness also extend to idolaters and homosexuals?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Luciferianism embraces man's imperfection. We believe that perfection, as it is understood, would be utterly boring. Imperfection is perfection. That is not to say we shouldn't improve ourselves. Luciferianism is all about the Mastery of the Self; however, we recognize the need for the darker side of nature.

Probably matter for another topic, but I never quite got the grasp of such things. What would such darker side be, and why would it be needed?

"[I ] want to remind you that you are all Popes. You are all you own highest authority. You are the source of your action. You choose your values - whether you do so actively or by default. You choose what to believe, how strongly to believe, and what you will take as disconfirming evidence. No one has authority over you - you are your own authority, your own value-chooser, your own thinker." -- In Praise of the Devil

I don't really agree. There is a real need to make concessions for society and for other people. It is often misused, but it is real and needed.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
" want to remind you that you are all Popes. You are all you own highest authority. You are the source of your action. You choose your values - whether you do so actively or by default. You choose what to believe, how strongly to believe, and what you will take as disconfirming evidence. No one has authority over you - you are your own authority, your own value-chooser, your own thinker." -- In Praise of the Devil


IMO this paragraph you shared explains free will in some ways. this way of thinking might bring the idea of being authority even in death. it is impossible to delay death when it comes, unfortunately some people take their own lives to prove they are still authority. i sincerely hope you do not commit suicide someday.


.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
I'm sure he has his own answer, but I'm more curious about yours.

OK, i'd try to explain. hatred itself is inhumane. who or what you hate does not justify hatred or your reason would not make hatred divine. there is no need to 'extend' love. because you have one inner world and you either feed hatred within you or not. reasons are just selfish, egoist excuses that one fools himself with.


.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
OK, i'd try to explain. hatred itself is inhumane. who or what you hate does not justify hatred or your reason would not make hatred divine. there is no need to 'extend' love. because you have one inner world and you either feed hatred within you or not. reasons are just selfish, egoist excuses that one fools himself with.

So what other people are and do have no role whatsoever on whether we love or hate them? Is that what you are saying?
 
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