What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

[YmirGF]

Oh how many verses of the Quran, how many hadith must I show you before you will agree that this is a label that mainstream Muslims have painted falsely on Islam? Didn't you read my previous signatures that told of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)'s sorrow at that people wouldn't understand the truth?

IF indeed what you are asserting is true, then why on Earth would the fellow in the video claim otherwise. Why would FVM think that this was a reasonable explanation? Remember, I am simply mirroring that which has been handed to me.

That is a good question. In fact, someone else said something similar like "Why does God only communicate through select people?" I will answer this in another thread.

Okies.

Good question again. This deserves a new thread too. But being an evolution supporter (I assume) I am surprised you say that. You will find out why later.

I fully support evolution, yes. I am also one of those deluded thinkers that considers the Joyous Nazarene to be "god in the flesh", though I am not a Christian and Jesus is not my "god". (It's a long and complex explaination, lol.) I am curious what you think your response has to do with my point.

This hurts. Really hurts. But I assume you have some evidence. This evidence I want to see. Please start a new thread on this. Please.

Let's see, he was suicidal, he had terrible visions of an angel that was hardly kind to him, he thought he was possessed by evil jinn, he had a very clear Obsessive-compulsive disorder etc... Read about the life of Muhammed with these things in mind and you will see sufficient evidence. I agree. This uncomfortable truth may hurt a great deal to the true believer.

Mainstream Islam, does, yes again give that impression. Quite like Jews in my opinion in that regard (and in many other regards too). Funless zombies.Shortly before he passed away the 4th Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community made a point to relate several jokes he had learnt throughout his life. Just look at some and let me know whether he was a joyous man. And the people who surround him. Most of them are in Urdu, though, but there are ones in English too.YouTube - LateefaChannel's Channel

Actually, Tariq, I meant it in general terms and not just in cases of extremely devout Muslims. It was interesting to see a cleric that was not foaming at the mouth for a change. Even the Urdu jokes had the audience chuckling. I felt the English jokes were pretty lame, however. At least he has a sense of humor. In regards to Jewish people I do have to disagree. The Jews are world famous for their unbridled ability to poke fun at themselves. Some of the greatest comedians in history have been Jews.

I must say, though, that this is the first time I have read you expressing your opinion about Islam as a whole and aside from saying Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was mentally unstable I can't say your observations are baseless.

Well, thank you for that, I got the impression from "Peace" that that was hardly the case and that my comments were completely baseless. I have come to expect that sort of remark however.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

I reject the interpretation that allows you to attack a total stranger that is percieved to be responsible, in defence of a muslim in another country

Kai ... comon ... if you just don't want to agree ...

"Percieved to be responsible" ... obviously the defender should ensure the "perception" is accurate and if the defender can not be sure of this he would rather not interfere. And why do you say Muslim ... you should say Human because as far as I am concerned this applies to all human beings.

(my underlining) so that should clip her wings

So her being Imam is another question right? I guess the answer to why she should pray seperately has been satisfied?

Why is a woman's primary responsibility the taking care of children and the house?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1234081-post15.html

And if you are going to start about woman's rights please go ahead but read this post first
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1230743-post1.html

The links to posts I am giving are not that long a read I hope. I usually try to be brief.

 

[Storm]

Originally Posted by tomspug
Do you believe that any religion other than Islam is a false religion?

Absolutely not...and thats the gap between us Muslims and you Christians...you think that Islam cancels your religion and thats wrong...Islam completes Judaism and Christianity.

Because, of course, those are the only other religions in the world....

Seriously, Right_Path, what about Wicca, Hinduism, Shinto, Asatru, Discordia, etc.? And of course, the aforementioned Baha'i?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

IF indeed what you are asserting is true, then why on Earth would the fellow in the video claim otherwise. Why would FVM think that this was a reasonable explanation? Remember, I am simply mirroring that which has been handed to me.

There are about 73 sects in Islam. They all have contradicting explanations despite the fact that they use the same Holy Quran as the primary source. It is logical to infer that 1400 years have allowed for a lot of "interpretations" via dishonest/human error. This happens to every religion in the world as time passes. It gets split into sects. That is why God keeps sending Prophets to re-establish the original teaching. And since he is a messenger of truth all these liars unite against him and oppose him. As was the case with Jesus, Muhammad(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and the founder of my community, the Promised Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, and every other Prophet.

Let's see, he was suicidal, he had terrible visions of an angel that was hardly kind to him, he thought he was possessed by evil jinn, he had a very clear Obsessive-compulsive disorder etc...

Suicidal? Posessed by evil jinn? OCD?!! Where do you get these things man? Which Muslims speak to you?
He had visions of an angel yes but ... "was hardly kind to him"? Where do you get these things?

Yeah the mouse joke was not that good. But his delivery can't help make one smile. May Allah have Mercy on him.

 

[Sahar]

OK, fair enough... I wouldn't want you to risk divine wrath. Let's try one that shouldn't get you in trouble with a higher power... Let's say I tell you all cats are evil and wish to harm you - they are only waiting on orders from the evil cat leader. Can you simply choose to sincerely believe that for a short while?

You haven't convinced me yet to believe it.

 

[Peace]

OK, fair enough... I wouldn't want you to risk divine wrath. Let's try one that shouldn't get you in trouble with a higher power... Let's say I tell you all cats are evil and wish to harm you - they are only waiting on orders from the evil cat leader. Can you simply choose to sincerely believe that for a short while?

You haven't convinced me yet to believe it.

Neither do I and so I wouldn't believe it.

 

[Wandered Off]

You haven't convinced me yet to believe it.

Neither do I and so I wouldn't believe it.

Well, that shouldn't be a problem. If you can simply choose what to believe, then I don't need to convince you to choose it. You can choose to believe it anyway, right???

No, you can't. So I hope you can see that belief is not quite as simple as a choice. It's a bit more complicated.

 

[Right_Path]

i was born with mine and plz dont tell me God gave them to me

you were born, then there must be someone who created you...plz give yourself a chance for a moment to reconsider your perception to the creator...it makes no sense to say I WAS BORN...because you had no hand in that

i am talking about capital and corporal punishment

punishment in Islam is only intended for the benefit of mankind...for example, the punishment of theft is only applied to protect the society from more crimes...and i guess that crime rates in Muslim nations are much lower than others.

why cant they pray in the same room as a man or become an imam

Is that all that you have in your 'Women inequallity' claims!...for your notice...Imam is a huge respnsibility in Islam...its better for Muslim women not to become Imam...ask them:yes:

 

[kai]

Kai ... comon ... if you just don't want to agree ...
Tariq come on, i obviously dissagree, your explanation virtually gives you carte blanche
"Percieved to be responsible" ... obviously the defender should ensure the "perception" is accurate and if the defender can not be sure of this he would rather not interfere. And why do you say Muslim ... you should say Human because as far as I am concerned this applies to all human beings. because this very fact is one of the reasons i reject Islam its in my list on this thread of yours


So her being Imam is another question right? I guess the answer to why she should pray seperately has been satisfied? No it is a rediculous answer , what you are sayingis that you wouldnt be able to concentrate on god because of a womans rear being around,you have segregation in your prayer, and a woman can do anything she likes as long as it doesnt interfere in housekeeping and child rearing.

Why is a woman's primary responsibility the taking care of children and the house?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1234081-post15.html

again another reason i reject Islam, A woman doesnt have to have children or take care of the house if she wishes not too.She should be able to follow a career path if she wishes ,

And if you are going to start about woman's rights please go ahead but read this post first
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1230743-post1.html

The links to posts I am giving are not that long a read I hope. I usually try to be brief.

I do not want to go back to womens rights 1400 years ago , we are where we are now,
sorry man but women do not have equal rights in worship,simple as. if we stick to just the religion and not cultural ,you have segregation in prayer, thats pretty basic to a religion.

 

[kai]

you were born, then there must be someone who created you...plz give yourself a chance for a moment to reconsider your perception to the creator...it makes no sense to say I WAS BORN...because you had no hand in that
"i was born" makes perfect sense to me ,i did biology at school,and my parents created me.


punishment in Islam is only intended for the benefit of mankind...for example, the punishment of theft is only applied to protect the society from more crimes...and i guess that crime rates in Muslim nations are much lower than others. are they? they hang an awful lot of people in Iran.



Is that all that you have in your 'Women inequallity' claims!...for your notice...Imam is a huge respnsibility in Islam...its better for Muslim women not to become Imam...ask them:yes:

I am sure they would agree its too much for them to cope with

 

[Neo-Logic]

This is my first contribution, I am a Muslim and I am in total belief that Mohamed was a true prophet. But I feel responsibility towards people who are not aware of Islam, that’s why I am trying to help others finding the truth.

What makes your version of truth so much more righteous or so much more truthful than any other versions of truth, whether they be religious or atheist in nature?

If you want a shot of converting someone - I'll volunteer. Seriously, I'm pretty damn open minded. I'll look at any facts and evidence - so long as they are facts and evidence. I'm a student of law and in a court of justice, facts and evidence must support the assumptions or claims. If there is even a reasonable doubt, the burden of proof is considered to be insufficient.

Start by trying to prove to me how I would know that the holy book is in fact the word of God - and not just random words from authors. Meet your burden of proof with sufficient evidence.

Religion and burden of proof? Really? They go together? If you're game, I'm game.

 

[Right_Path]

i was born" makes perfect sense to me ,i did biology at school,and my parents created me.

expected...since u studied biology, then it makes perfect sense to say that the extremly complicated and precisely accurate reproduction system must involve an almighty controller.

parents only have a hand in sex, nothing to do with the inside system...and that brings to the question of 'who created Adam?'

yes, you were born with eyes, but there is someone who made you see the light with them

are they? they hang an awful lot of people in Iran.

as for this one, I'll PM you

 

[Troublemane]

you were born, then there must be someone who created you...plz give yourself a chance for a moment to reconsider your perception to the creator...it makes no sense to say I WAS BORN...because you had no hand in that

Its also true to say that no one decided which country to be born in, which language they learned or what religion they were taught. So if God created us, is it not also true to say He placed us exactly where we are, with what religion we follow? Perhaps there is no one true faith, but perhaps each has its place and purpose? :angel2:

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Its also true to say that no one decided which country to be born in, which language they learned or what religion they were taught. So if God created us, is it not also true to say He placed us exactly where we are, with what religion we follow? Perhaps there is no one true faith, but perhaps each has its place and purpose?

Don't confuse race and place of birth with religion. It is true that our parents determine our religion at a young age. But religion remains a choice in life and is not an inheritance.
A simple example would be the several people on these forums whose religion is not their parents' or who have changed religions over time.

 

[YmirGF]

There are about 73 sects in Islam. They all have contradicting explanations despite the fact that they use the same Holy Quran as the primary source. It is logical to infer that 1400 years have allowed for a lot of "interpretations" via dishonest/human error. This happens to every religion in the world as time passes. It gets split into sects. That is why God keeps sending Prophets to re-establish the original teaching. And since he is a messenger of truth all these liars unite against him and oppose him. As was the case with Jesus, Muhammad(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and the founder of my community, the Promised Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, and every other Prophet.

With all due respect then, how can anyone be expected to believe a single word that any of you are claiming then?

Suicidal? Posessed by evil jinn? OCD?!! Where do you get these things man? Which Muslims speak to you?

Um, even the famous Karen Armstong cites several of these elements although I do recall that she does not mention mental illness a single time.

He had visions of an angel yes but ... "was hardly kind to him"? Where do you get these things?

Ahh... when Gabriel demanded that he "Read/Recite" he wasn't very polite about his request now was he? IF memory serves correct, Muhammed left the "meeting" shaken and horribly upset, running to his wife for comfort. Frankly, the account in the cave with Gabriel sounds more like a psychotic episode than it sounds of divine visitation. However, with the Muslim admonition to "fear God" it is reasonable to see how Muslims would not see it this way.

Yeah the mouse joke was not that good. But his delivery can't help make one smile. May Allah have Mercy on him.

Agreed, he seemed light a delightful old guy and I am afraid that is a side of Islam scholars that is rarely shown to the public... for whatever reason.

 

[YmirGF]

If u learnt about Mohamed, you will never say he intended to 'control people and gain power'...or else he wouldn't have lived a poor and humble life when he could have lived as a king if he wanted.

I see you have little understanding about people who are fixated on power. There is no correclation between how one chooses to live, either simply or opulently and the fixation on controlling the behavior of others. My guess is that you equate great power with great richness.

I

am talking about a HOLY BOOK IN THE NAME OF GOD...not human acts

Tee hee. Um, if the Qur'an was not sanctioned by "god" in the first place... just why would "god" feel a need to write a book to refute it? You are using VERY perculiar logic here. Evidently you have a fixation on books.

well i guess u got enough replies for that...but i have to add that the words 'hatred' and 'mental illness' suggest you know nothing about Islam and Mohamed...and thats the biggest problem...misunderstanding Islam

If I am so misunderstanding of Islam then perhaps you folks are not getting the message out properly. Did that ever occur to you? You look in the Qur'an and are in abject awe over what you read. I look at the Qur'an and begin muttering, "O' good grief!"

One Muslim tells me all I need to know is contained in the Qur'an. Another Muslim trots by and says, "Oh, you have to read the commentaries to understand the Qur'an". Then another Muslim trots by and tells me I have to read the Sunnah as well to appreciate the words of the commentaries and the words of the Qur'an through the examples in the life of Muhammed. Then another Muslim flounces through and tells me there are 73 branches of Islam with their own interpretations, so that begs the question, "Do any of you have the slightest idea what you are talking about?" Further to this, can we seriously be expected to believe a single word any one of you says in light of the above? Like, seriously.

 

[YmirGF]

...it makes perfect sense to say that the extremly complicated and precisely accurate reproduction system must involve an almighty controller.

Actually it does not, but I doubt you will agree with that. You are simply attributing a cause to something that does not require a cause to exist. Be honest, now.

parents only have a hand in sex, nothing to do with the inside system

and you are an expert on these matters? For pete sake man, get off the forums now... scientists NEED to hear what you are claiming and if you have the answers, there isn't a second to lose.

...and that brings to the question of 'who created Adam?'

Absurd question expected. My guess it was a crafy story teller who did not especially like women.

yes, you were born with eyes, but there is someone who made you see the light with them.

Rubbish. The function of the eye is to see. If they are functioning properly, there is simply no need for anything else. They just work.

as for this one, I'll PM you

Dare I ask you to PM your thoughts on this subject to me as well? :flirt:

 

[Right_Path]

I see you have little understanding about people who are fixated on power. There is no correclation between how one chooses to live, either simply or opulently and the fixation on controlling the behavior of others. My guess is that you equate great power with great richness.

'Live like a king' was just an example...in other words, one who is intending to 'control people', must be eyeing a definitive objective (like great richness).

Mohamed struggled just for the sake of his message.

Given the fact that he was already a natural leader and a very trusted man among his people, he could have chosen a much easier approach to 'control people's behavior', without having to go through the toughness of 'creating' a new religion, which eventually cost him half his people (non-believers)

Tee hee. Um, if the Qur'an was not sanctioned by "god" in the first place... just why would "god" feel a need to write a book to refute it? You are using VERY perculiar logic here. Evidently you have a fixation on books.

Can u re-state this question...i think there is something wrong in your phrase

If I am so misunderstanding of Islam then perhaps you folks are not getting the message out properly. Did that ever occur to you? You look in the Qur'an and are in abject awe over what you read. I look at the Qur'an and begin muttering, "O' good grief!"

That's because u r looking from the wrong angle, i mean u deem no respect to the book in your hand because u do not trust the author.

Thus, i have to tell u that people like u will find it VERY difficult to understand Quran. Did u even bother to complete it, with Tafseer(Analysis).

One Muslim tells me all I need to know is contained in the Qur'an. Another Muslim trots by and says, "Oh, you have to read the commentaries to understand the Qur'an". Then another Muslim trots by and tells me I have to read the Sunnah as well to appreciate the words of the commentaries and the words of the Qur'an through the examples in the life of Muhammed. Then another Muslim flounces through and tells me there are 73 branches of Islam with their own interpretations, so that begs the question, "Do any of you have the slightest idea what you are talking about?" Further to this, can we seriously be expected to believe a single word any one of you says in light of the above? Like, seriously.

Take my advice, understand the Quran, honestly, and then learn about Mohamed and his Sunna...u will not need to listen to any one causing your confusion...Islam is so clear, but unfortunately some so-called Muslims misrepresent their religion.

 

[Right_Path]

Actually it does not, but I doubt you will agree with that. You are simply attributing a cause to something that does not require a cause to exist. Be honest, now.
and you are an expert on these matters? For pete sake man, get off the forums now... scientists NEED to hear what you are claiming and if you have the answers, there isn't a second to lose.

I am no expert, I did 'claim' nothing other than that the reproductive system is very complicated and i don't think scientists will disagree with me on that.

All I want to say is that; it makes much sense to believe that there is an almighty creator behind this sensational cycle...rather than saying that it happens 'just like that'...look around u...things APPEAR to be working automatically, but there is always someone behind the process

Absurd question expected. My guess it was a crafy story teller who did not especially like women.

You still didnt answer the 'absurd' quesion, u just mentioned the teller of the story...not the creator of the inaugral couple.

Rubbish. The function of the eye is to see. If they are functioning properly, there is simply no need for anything else. They just work.

Is that supposed to be an accepted answer, 'they just work'...the word JUST says it all...you 'just' WANT to believe there is no god.

the function of the car is to move...if it is functioning properly, there is simply no need for anything else. They just work...no driver needed:sarcastic

 

[darkendless]

All I want to say is that; it makes much sense to believe that there is an almighty creator behind this sensational cycle...rather than saying that it happens 'just like that'...look around u...things APPEAR to be working automatically, but there is always someone behind the process

Is that supposed to be an accepted answer, 'they just work'...the word JUST says it all...you 'just' WANT to believe there is no god.

the function of the car is to move...if it is functioning properly, there is simply no need for anything else. They just work...no driver needed:sarcastic

It does not make much more sense to believe in the almighty, you're just too consumed with your faith to look outside the square for the scientific answers to things you attribute divinity to.

You just want to believe in God, eyes do not just work, they are in essence complicated natural firbe optic cables with highly precise lenses relaying transmissions to our brain, its really not that complicated, i learnt the basics of the eye when i was 16 so it cant be too hard to comprehend. God didn't create them.

a car is a mechanical object created by man, never were they created to "just work," there is a required level of decision making.