What religion is the one true religion?

[firedragon]

Here is my original post on the subject. * Mod Edit *

Okay. So by followers you mean after about 1000 years, what you "believe" are their followers did something and that's your criteria for picking four people!

IN that case to pick someone like Manson, you have to wait for another 1000 at least. SO that's a bogus criteria.

Unless you can provide the numbers of people killed by their immediate followers, direct followers, and please quote the historical sources for your claims.

Thanks.

 

[Trailblazer]

On this basis, we are destined for more of such then - and more of what happens every time a new belief surfaces. Unless one was to believe each of the messages - but that doesn't seem to happen either. So why would any God get such wrong - given that this God is supposed to know us well?

Yes, we are destined for more Messengers of God in the future, as long as humans exist. However, what has happened in the past and what is happening now will not necessarily reoccur, because by the time the next Messenger comes people will be very different. They will understand that they have to recognize the new Messenger believe in the new messages, rather than clinging to the older Messengers and their messages.

God did not get anything wrong, it is the humans who keep getting things wrong, but I believe that will be different in the future. This is a new and very different age and history does not always repeat itself. People are evolving and changing but change takes place very gradually.

 

[Trailblazer]

What was my point was that these messengers from god that the Trailblazer was talking about were not very good messengers or their followers would not of been killing like they did/do whether it was for political reasons or not.

Why would the Messengers be to blame for what their followers did after the Messengers were dead and gone?

 

[Justanatheist]

Okay. So by followers you mean after about 1000 years, what you "believe" are their followers did something and that's your criteria for picking four people!

IN that case to pick someone like Manson, you have to wait for another 1000 at least. SO that's a bogus criteria.

Unless you can provide the numbers of people killed by their immediate followers, direct followers, and please quote the historical sources for your claims.

Thanks.

So you do not like why I chose those four people, big deal, I care not one jot what you think, others can judge whether I was fair, you on the other hand mis represented what I wrote whether deliberately or not. Now yet again you clearly do not understand what I wrote or why I wrote it, again not my problem others will judge. If you do not understand it for whatever reason I cannot debate with you.

Starting from left to right on the number of people killed by or because of their followers. Not sure if I have been fair to Koresh though.

Now that clearly states the followers did the killings, I have given you examples and evidence, nearly everyone in the English speaking world is aware of the Holocaust, 9/11, Wako and The Sharon Tate murders, you can take the numbers from there. And I have not mentioned the timescales of when the followers killed, again a strawman you created. And followers does not mean direct or immediate, look it up in a dictionary another strawman.

1.
a person who supports and admires a particular person or set of ideas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fol...ViIAa4BkgEBMpgBAKABAcgBC8ABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, we are destined for more Messengers of God in the future, as long as humans exist. However, what has happened in the past and what is happening now will not necessarily reoccur, because by the time the next Messenger comes people will be very different. They will understand that they have to recognize the new Messenger believe in the new messages, rather than clinging to the older Messengers and their messages.

God did not get anything wrong, it is the humans who keep getting things wrong, but I believe that will be different in the future. This is a new and very different age and history does not always repeat itself. People are evolving and changing but change takes place very gradually.

From your perspective perhaps but not from mine, since I don't recognise any of these as being messengers. Far too messy for any God to have been involved, in my view.

 

[Justanatheist]

Why would the Messengers be to blame for what their followers did after the Messengers were dead and gone?

Again I did not say they were responsible I said they were not very good messengers, stands to reason if your messengers are preaching love and peace and justice and they go out and kill they did not get the message did they?

 

[Justanatheist]

What some believers do not understand is from some atheists point of view there is no difference between a lunatic who follows Mohamed and fly's planes into buildings and a lunatic who follows Manson who murders movie stars, they all believe they are doing what their prophet wants them to do, right or wrong. That may be unpalatable for some.

 

[firedragon]

So you do not like why I chose those four people, big deal, I care not one jot what you think, others can judge whether I was fair, you on the other hand mis represented what I wrote whether deliberately or not. Now yet again you clearly do not understand what I wrote or why I wrote it, again not my problem others will judge. If you do not understand it for whatever reason I cannot debate with you.

Nah. Lol. There is no need to get so agitated and angry. Just shows you have no standard whatsoever. When you make a case, you should have some standard and consistency.

So be it. Have a great day.

 

[Shakeel]

Ah, the conditional "neighbor". We all share this Earth, Shakeel. We are all neighbors, globally speaking. Your neighbors are not merely those that live right next to you, or think exactly as you do.

That would be using the word neighbour in strange manner. What should I call my actual neighbors then?

You are misrepresenting both my beliefs and my actions

How could I do that? I have said nothing about your actions, I believe, and I don't even know what you believe in - how could I misrepresent it?

and are thus not acting as peacefully as you claim to.

I don't remember claiming to act peacefully, but I also don't know how that would relate to this debate.

 

[Shakeel]

they all believe they are doing what their prophet wants them to do,

I doubt that. Even if a person says they did something for their religion, that doesn't mean it's true.

But I do understand you don't care one way or the other because you don't know the difference between them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus was god, Jesus was not god, Jesus was the Messiah, Jesus was not the Messiah explain how that is not contradictory?

What the followers of different religions 'believe' about Jesus is contradictory because the followers of different religions interpret the Bible differently. Even Christians interpret the Bible differently, which is why they believe different things about Jesus (e.g., some Christians believe Jesus is God and some Christians don't believe Jesus is God).

All these contradictions are a big huge fat mess, but Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah straightened it all out.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What religion is the one true religion?

Debate start now!!

Almost all religions originated from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

from some atheists point of view there is no difference between a lunatic who follows Mohamed and fly's planes into buildings and a lunatic who follows Manson who murders movie stars

The Muslims who fly planes into buildings are not following what Muhammad taught but rather they went their own way, just as the followers of many older religions did.

Do you think that the Christians who took part in the Crusades were following what Jesus taught? No, they went their own way. This is what has happened with all the older religions. Not too long after they were revealed by the Messengers they got away from the original teachings of the Messengers because they misinterpreted the scriptures or ignored them altogether. I believe these older religions are now in their winter season.

“All that lives, and this includes the religions, have springtime, a time of maturity, of harvest and wintertime. Then religion becomes barren, a lifeless adherence to the letter uninformed by the spirit, and man’s spiritual life declines. When we look at religious history, we see that God has spoken to men precisely at times when they have reached the nadir of their degradation and cultural decadence. Moses came to Israel when it was languishing under the Pharaoh’s yoke, Christ appeared at a time when the Jewish Faith had lost its power and culture of antiquity was in its death those. Muhammad came to a people who lived in barbaric ignorance at the lowest level of culture and into a world in which the former religions had strayed far away from their origins and nearly lost their identity. The Bab addressed Himself to a people who had irretrievably lost their former grandeur and who found themselves in a state of hopeless decadence. Baha’u’llah came to a humanity which was approaching the most critical phase of its history.” (Udo Schaefer, The Light Shineth in Darkness, p. 24)

 

[Rival]

Almost all religions originated from God.

Which didn't, in your opinion?

 

[Trailblazer]

Again I did not say they were responsible I said they were not very good messengers, stands to reason if your messengers are preaching love and peace and justice and they go out and kill they did not get the message did they?

What Messengers preached love and peace and justice and then went out and killed?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Which didn't, in your opinion?

I don't even know any which isn't. Any religion that claims to be from God and has a holy Book, or a revealed Book with ordinances, Laws, or commands would be from God I believe. God does not allow a liar to bring a book with commands and claim it to be from God.

 

[Rival]

I don't even know any which isn't. Any religion that claims to be from God and has a holy Book, or a revealed Book with ordinances, Laws, or commands would be from God I believe. God does not allow a liar to bring a book with commands and claim it to be from God.

So you would include Mormonsim, for example?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So you would include Mormonsim, for example?

I differentiate between a Religion and a denomination. Mormonism is a denomination of Christianity, just as Orthodox or any other denomination. The Mormons still believe Christian Bible is the greatest Book from God, containing teachings from God. Mormons Book does not claim to have new teachings or commands from God.

 

[Shakeel]

I've done research. The problem is that the basic assumption: that there is a God, is never demonstrated.

Prophesies that are made after the fact are useless. prophesies that are obvious to anyone that is observant are useless. Miracles that are no more than street magic are useless. Miracles that nobody except believers see are useless.

Any prophesies or miracles that don't have those issues?

The purpose of rationalisation and proofs is to trigger the uncovering of the natural state of man, which is belief in one God.

Yes,
there are numerous miracles in the Qur'an.

For example,

1. Sky – A Protective Covering

Scientists did not know that the sky was a protected ceiling until the 20th century. Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) says in the Quran, “And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.” [21: 32] The sky is not only beautiful to look at, but it also plays an important role in our survival. The Sun radiates energy in different wavelengths – the shorter the wavelength, the greater the potential harm. Some of this energy, however, is required for crucial functions such as photosynthesis in the plants and production of Vitamin D in human beings.

Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) designed a mechanism that ensures only harmless rays reached the Earth. This mechanism is what we know as the ‘ozone layer’. The scientists discovered this layer in the year 1913.

2. Mountains – Holding Down the Earth

Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) says, “And we placed within the Earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them…” [21:31]

The Earth that we live on is in a constant state of motion. We do not feel it because Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) placed gigantic mountains to hold it down. This fact was unknown until the geologists discovered that mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground. These roots clench different plates of the Earth like a peg or an anchor to control and prevent it from shaking.

5 Scientific Miracles of the Quran - Understand Al-Qur'an Academy

 

[Trailblazer]

God does not allow a liar to bring a book with commands and claim it to be from God.

I would not be so sure about that. There are many false prophets.