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What"s with all the secrecy???

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
no it's not it's about the secrecy....

why was god so secretive about this girls horrific ordeal? why didn't he put it into someone's head that a girl was locked up for 25 yrs with her children...

your dilemma is that these things happen and god doesn't care, he just stands there, indifferent as he is, and watches how it all plays out...and it's pretty convenient when you say, all things are a part of his plan....
a double standard no less, especially when he gets you prime parking space at costco...

I actually have a lot I would love to say about Why God allows suffering, but just so I don't completely take over this thread I'll make the question more specific and start a thread "Why Does God Allow So Much Suffering"
It seems a bunch of people have been wondering the same thing

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...0-why-does-god-allow-so-much.html#post2549817

I think you'll like it, it discusses the following
"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
2. An individual brings it on himself.
3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
4. Human error may unintentionally cause suffering.
5. An act of nature precipitates the damage, injury, or death.
6. A mechanical malfunction causes an accident."
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I think you'll like it, it discusses the following
"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
2. An individual brings it on himself.
3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
4. Human error may unintentionally cause suffering.
5. An act of nature precipitates the damage, injury, or death.
6. A mechanical malfunction causes an accident."
Suffering occurs because we have pain receptors and we are mortal. Also cause we are too emotional.

Just cause a person doesn't do harm to others doesn't mean they will not receive harm. Perhaps we cause it but innocent victims are not the cause.
 

Masourga

Member
I'll tell what all the secrecy is about - the people collecting the money don't really want you to know whether or not the thing you're (ultimately) donating toward is "real" or not. Because as soon as you found out the (likely) truth, you'd stop donating.

So you'll get all kinds of stories and ridiculous excuses as to why there are no verifiable events showing the existence of whatever God(s) the "excusers" ascribe themselves to. Even if they also claim that their God "loves" you, and that knowing and believing in Him will "save" you in some way - the only possibilities are:

A. You're being lied to, or
B. He/They/It apparently doesn't "love" you enough to do the one, simple thing that would "save" you - appear before you/commune with you/etc.
 
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BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Except, of course, that this isn't true of all religions!

The Baha'i Faith, for example, has no secrets whatever.

What you see is what you get. :)


Bruce
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I actually have a lot I would love to say about Why God allows suffering, but just so I don't completely take over this thread I'll make the question more specific and start a thread "Why Does God Allow So Much Suffering"
It seems a bunch of people have been wondering the same thing

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...0-why-does-god-allow-so-much.html#post2549817

I think you'll like it, it discusses the following
"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

2. An individual brings it on himself.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

4. Human error may unintentionally cause suffering.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

5. An act of nature precipitates the damage, injury, or death.
because of indifference or intent
6. A mechanical malfunction causes an accident."
because of indifference or intent
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
I think you'll like it, it discusses the following
"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes, sometimes, (flooding the world is a good example)

Quote:
2. An individual brings it on himself.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes sometimes. (people start forest fires all the time. In biological warfare people invent diseases and kill their enemies off this way.

Quote:
3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes
4, 5, and 6 yes, yes, and yes.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I think you'll like it, it discusses the following
"It appears there are several reasons why suffering occurs:
1. God causes it.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes, sometimes, (flooding the world is a good example)

Quote:
2. An individual brings it on himself.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes sometimes. (people start forest fires all the time. In biological warfare people invent diseases and kill their enemies off this way.

Quote:
3. Someone intentionally causes another person to suffer.
you mean like natural disasters or disease?

Yes
4, 5, and 6 yes, yes, and yes.

ok...
but 5 and 6 were not yes or no answers
read it again, i have a feeling you didn't even consider what i meant with 1-4...
but i'll wait for 5 and 6 then we'll go from there
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
5 and 6 I said yes to meaning both happen
Some people purposefully cause a car crash.
thats bunk...
5...'An act of nature precipitates the damage, injury, or death.'
a tsunami or an earthquake
6 'A mechanical malfunction causes an accident.'
so when they don't 'cause the accident...?

indifference or intent

waiting...
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
What do you mean indifferance or intent?

i am responding to your interesting list of
reasons of why suffering occurs...

1. god caused it...doesn't say anything really.
2. an individual brings it on them self... no argument there
however, when people say the reason for disease or a natural disasters are ultimately because people brought it onto themselves are, in my opinion, reaching at straws in order to keep god out of the double standard they set up for themselves.
3. someone intentionally caused it...sure whatever...that is sometimes all too obvious. however if people say that that someone was used as a tool for gods justice are, in my opinion, reaching at straws in order to keep god out of the double standard they set up for themselves.
4. human error...ok so? again this is explainable
however, when people say the reason there are accidents is ultimately because people brought it to themselves are, in my opinion, reaching at straws in order to keep god out of the double standard they set up for themselves.
5. an act of nature... again, an obvious explanation..there is no intent only indifference however, when people blame the reason for natural disasters as people bringing it on to themselves are, in my opinion, reaching at straws in order to keep god out of the double standard they set up for themselves.
6.a mechanical dysfunction...we already discussed #3 so why bring it back up again? random indifference...no intent. however, when people say the reason there are accidents are ultimately because people brought it to themselves are, in my opinion, reaching at straws in order to keep god out of the double standard they set up for themselves.

either god intends for everything to happen or doesn't.
 
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9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
if the supernatural does exist. what's with all the secrecy? out of all of the gods "known" to man throughout history, not a single one has made his actual existence known. never did a sky daddy come down to show himself to everyone... why?? why does god not make his existence known, and then let everyone decide whether or not they would like to worship him for eternity??? why turn it into a silly game of hide and seek, where only some humans claim that the gods have revealed themselves to them, while others are left in the dark....... why not just make his existence known and let us make the decision whether or not to follow him.... we will still have free will of course....

You're working on the assumption that a god actually cares enough about our existence.
 

arcanum

Active Member
Perhaps human consciousness, as it is, is very limited and one could say we are spiritually blind. Perhaps in order to perceive higher things, especially things of the spirit it requires the attainment of a higher state of consciousness. It's fairly obvious that there is a lot of confusion and ignorance at out current level, just read come of the comments on this forum. What if there is a way of making the scales fall from our eyes and perceive a bit clearer a greater reality as the mystics say? I'm convinced that we are not going to find god through logic or by employing the ordinary tools of our current limited state of perception. It is like losing your keys in a poorly lit house but looking underneath a street lamp located nearby because the light is better outside. Do ants comprehend the vast universe at their level of perception? Maybe we are like that, we have no clue of our place in the vast cosmic ecosystem in which are probably quite insignificant in the scale of things.
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
I'm convinced that we are not going to find god through logic or by employing the ordinary tools of our current limited state of perception. It is like losing your keys in a poorly lit house but looking underneath a street lamp located nearby because the light is better outside. Do ants comprehend the vast universe at their level of perception? Maybe we are like that, we have no clue of our place in the vast cosmic ecosystem in which are probably quite insignificant in the scale of things.

what i've noticed is when i stop searching for something i find it...
only because the notion of where i put my keys is false.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Perhaps human consciousness, as it is, is very limited and one could say we are spiritually blind. Perhaps in order to perceive higher things, especially things of the spirit it requires the attainment of a higher state of consciousness. It's fairly obvious that there is a lot of confusion and ignorance at out current level, just read come of the comments on this forum. What if there is a way of making the scales fall from our eyes and perceive a bit clearer a greater reality as the mystics say? I'm convinced that we are not going to find god through logic or by employing the ordinary tools of our current limited state of perception. It is like losing your keys in a poorly lit house but looking underneath a street lamp located nearby because the light is better outside. Do ants comprehend the vast universe at their level of perception? Maybe we are like that, we have no clue of our place in the vast cosmic ecosystem in which are probably quite insignificant in the scale of things.
Our perception has gotten much more keen than any time in the past. We used to be like those ants, very limited of the vast universe, before the Hubble. We have even found another universe within a single cell. We don't have "ordinary" tools anymore. If we haven't found god already it's cause we aren't paying attention.
 
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