• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What"s with all the secrecy???

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
here...

Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:



and if you think that act was an immoral act, you certainly didn't arrive to that conclusion from reading any book, it comes from YOUR OWN moral sense.

oh wow a website, go read it and tell me where it says they prayed and God told them to do these things, I can't seem to find it.
Not to mention, do you really believe everything you read on Wikipeida? If so, you are more gullible than I thought.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
"Oh yah, I heard Kelloggs makes this kind of cereal with actual rat droppings in it! I read it on Wikipedia!" *being sarcastic*
 

Azekual

Lost
oh wow a website, go read it and tell me where it says they prayed and God told them to do these things, I can't seem to find it.
Not to mention, do you really believe everything you read on Wikipeida? If so, you are more gullible than I thought.
Wikipedia is a better resource than most people think (it's not the best but it is a decent starting point for research). The pages are flagged if they are stubs, do not have proper sources cited to substantiate their claims, etc. Granted, not all pages with those things missing get flagged but many do. When flagged a notice will appear at the top of the page informing readers of these flags and will remain there until a user corrects the problem behind the flag. Most people ignore these flags, use faulty information they found there, then ***** when they find out it is false.

If you use Wikipedia for research, read the article and the sources listed and if you find information that contradicts Wikipedia, give it consideration and come to a conclusion from there. Wikipedia is a useful tool if you know how it works.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Wikipedia is a better resource than most people think (it's not the best but it is a decent starting point for research). The pages are flagged if they are stubs, do not have proper sources cited to substantiate their claims, etc. Granted, not all pages with those things missing get flagged but many do. When flagged a notice will appear at the top of the page informing readers of these flags and will remain there until a user corrects the problem behind the flag. Most people ignore these flags, use faulty information they found there, then ***** when they find out it is false.

If you use Wikipedia for research, read the article and the sources listed and if you find information that contradicts Wikipedia, give it consideration and come to a conclusion from there. Wikipedia is a useful tool if you know how it works.

Or you could say don't follow what people write blindly and to the point. Published writings always have biases that are not always necessary.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
oh wow a website, go read it and tell me where it says they prayed and God told them to do these things, I can't seem to find it.
Not to mention, do you really believe everything you read on Wikipeida? If so, you are more gullible than I thought.

"al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida) is a global militant Sunni Islamist group founded by Osama bin Laden sometime between August 1988[11] and late 1989.[12] It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army[13] and a radical Sunni Muslim movement calling for global Jihad."
Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sunni
"Sunni Islam is referred to as the orthodox version of the religion."
Sunni Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

jihad
an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād translates as a noun meaning "struggle". Jihad appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)".[1][2][3] A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid; the plural is mujahideen. Jihad is an important religious duty for Muslims. A minority among the Sunni scholars sometimes refer to this duty as the sixth pillar of Islam, though it occupies no such official status.[4] In Twelver Shi'a Islam, however, Jihad is one of the 10 Practices of the Religion.
Jihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

are you telling me these people didn't think they were doing something for their god? you really think they didn't pray about this, you don't think they thought they were going to paradise for their martyrdom? really?


willful ignorance.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
"Oh yah, I heard Kelloggs makes this kind of cereal with actual rat droppings in it! I read it on Wikipedia!" *being sarcastic*

i really think it's so very telling when one reverts to the use of ad hominems...
this has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

as far as i can tell, the reason one reverts to such tactics is because the challenge presents an uncomfortable dilemma...
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Okay, I still see no evidence that any of them really prayed about what they were doing and that God told them that that was what He wanted them to do.
From what I have noticed from my recent studies. When talking to the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Southern Baptists they try to prove everything out of the Bible, but so far in my experience they have never asked me to pray and ask God if what they are saying is true. People join the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Baptists anyway, never having prayed and asked God if it was true. What makes me think the Sunni religion is any different?
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Okay, I still see no evidence that any of them really prayed about what they were doing and that God told them that that was what He wanted them to do.
From what I have noticed from my recent studies. When talking to the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Southern Baptists they try to prove everything out of the Bible, but so far in my experience they have never asked me to pray and ask God if what they are saying is true. People join the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Baptists anyway, never having prayed and asked God if it was true. What makes me think the Sunni religion is any different?

alright since you refuse to see that we were attacked for religious reasons...
lets talk about faith healings. how many children have been murdered by their parents who prayed to god to heal their children and act on faith by not giving them their meds...? mk 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Faith Healers Responsible For Child Deaths Under Proposed Oregon Bill

now don't you tell me these people didn't pray. these people did exactly what they were told to do by their savior by acting on faith.
does god want these people to go to jail for doing what he told them to do?
did god want those children to die? what was the purpose of these needless deaths, certainly not to promote god.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[W]hy does god not make his existence known, and then let everyone decide whether or not they would like to worship him for eternity???

An excellent question!

I suggest you ask Him once you get to the Next Life. :)

(I will note, BTW, that the Baha'i scriptures indicate that while God could display Himself such that no one would have a choice about believing in Him, this would clearly interfere with the free will that He gave us and which He expects us to use. They also say that every one of us has both the right and the duty to investigate the various religions, decide where the truth lies, and follow that!)

Peace,

Bruce
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
alright since you refuse to see that we were attacked for religious reasons...
lets talk about faith healings. how many children have been murdered by their parents who prayed to god to heal their children and act on faith by not giving them their meds...? mk 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Faith Healers Responsible For Child Deaths Under Proposed Oregon Bill

now don't you tell me these people didn't pray. these people did exactly what they were told to do by their savior by acting on faith.
does god want these people to go to jail for doing what he told them to do?
did god want those children to die? what was the purpose of these needless deaths, certainly not to promote god.


I never said that the terrorists were not killing themselves for religious reasons. I'm just stating that I never heard anywhere that any of them prayed about what they were doing, or that through direct revelation God told them to go do the things they did.

I also never said that I don't believe in going to the doctor, and I never said that I don't believe in taking medicine.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I didn't see anywhere on your link that God told the people not to give them medicine.

well obviously you didn't read it....

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Oregon prosecutors and lawmakers endorsed a bill Monday (Feb. 21) that would remove special legal protection for parents who treat seriously ill children with faith healing instead of providing medical treatment.


man, you're are really talented with those blinders....


so what do you supposed happened?
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
Just because it says they were doing it for religious reasons, doesn't mean that any of them prayed and claimed that God told them not to give the kids any kind of medicine.
You will notice that it never claims this anywhere in your link.

It sounds a lot to me like some people getting washed away in a flood, the people pray and God tells them that He will send an angel to rescue them. A helicopter comes by to save them and they refuse it saying "No thanks, God is going to send an angel for us." the helicopter leaves and the person then dies. I have heard of stuff like that happening.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Just because it says they were doing it for religious reasons, doesn't mean that any of them prayed and claimed that God told them not to give the kids any kind of medicine.
You will notice that it never claims this anywhere in your link.

It sounds a lot to me like some people getting washed away in a flood, the people pray and God tells them that He will send an angel to rescue them. A helicopter comes by to save them and they refuse it saying "No thanks, God is going to send an angel for us." the helicopter leaves and the person then dies. I have heard of stuff like that happening.

i guess you would be the first to say elizabeth fritzl didn't pray to god to make her father stop raping her for years and yrs...

the only thing i see from you is your unwillingness to acknowledge the obvious.
 

Flat Earth Kyle

Well-Known Member
i guess you would be the first to say elizabeth fritzl didn't pray to god to make her father stop raping her for years and yrs...

the only thing i see from you is your unwillingness to acknowledge the obvious.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, I don't know. I've never even heard of her.
Did she say she prayed?

You seem to have a lot of questions about prayer, instead of talking about the same off topic subject on a bunch of different threads lets go talk about it on my new Prayer Thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/119094-prayer.html#post2549705
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, I don't know. I've never even heard of her.
Did she say she prayed?

You seem to have a lot of questions about prayer, instead of talking about the same off topic subject on a bunch of different threads lets go talk about it on my new Prayer Thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/119094-prayer.html#post2549705
you have got to be kidding me....you don't think she didn't pray
for this nightmare to end...?

Elisabeth Fritzl has spoken for the first time about the horrors she and her children were forced to endure while imprisoned by their father in a cellar under the family home in Austria.

The 42-year-old was kept prisoner by Josef Fritzl for almost a quarter of a century, during which time she bore him seven children.

Finally freed from her dungeon in April, Elisabeth has told the judge investigating the case that she was raped up to three times a week by her father and if she tried to resist, her children suffered.

She also alleged that Mr Fritzl threatened to leave her and the children to die in the cellar if they did not follow his commands.

"He was very brutal against me," Elisabeth told judge Andrea Humer in an interview, extracts from which were published in The Sun. "And when I did not agree to have sex, then the kids would suffer. We knew he would kick us or be bad to us."

Elisabeth, her eldest daughter, 19, and two sons now aged 18 and 6, were imprisoned in a concrete bunker underneath the Fritzl family home in Amstetten. Her three other children, two girls now aged 16 and 14 and a boy now aged 12, were chosen by the retired electricial engineer to live upstairs with him and his wife.

Another baby boy she gave birth to in the cellar died soon after being born and was allegedly thrown into a domestic furnace. Prosecutors in Austria hope to charge Mr Fritzl with manslaughter over that death.

The six survivors were only freed after the eldest daughter, Kerstin, collapsed on April 19. She was rushed to hospital after Elisabeth pleaded with her father to let her daughter see a doctor.

In her interview with Ms Humer, Austria's top female judge, Elisabeth said that her father threatened to leave them to rot in the cellar, which had no windows and was sealed by an electronically-locked door.

"He said he could close the door whenever he wanted and then we would soon see how we survived," she said.

The judge asked: "Did you take these threats as real?" Elisabeth replied: "Yes."

Elisabeth also told of how she tried to keep life as normal as possible for her children when their father was not around.

"When he went away we led our own lives," she said. "When he was here it was all silence. He was just all-powerful.

"It was his kind of communication to use rough words. He would be insulting against me and the children.When he was at the table and we were eating and someone was holding their knife wrongly, or did not want to eat, there would be verbal abuse.

"He wouldn't let the kids develop their own personalities. He would not allow the kids to have their own will."

if you don't believe me, just google her name yourself

Elisabeth Fritzl tells of father's cruelty - Times Online

btw, this has to do with the OP
not a single one [person] has made his actual existence known.
you'd think with all the needless suffering, he would.
 
Last edited:

waitasec

Veteran Member
lets go talk about it on my prayer thread.
You are off topic.

no it's not it's about the secrecy....

why was god so secretive about this girls horrific ordeal? why didn't he put it into someone's head that a girl was locked up for 25 yrs with her children...

your dilemma is that these things happen and god doesn't care, he just stands there, indifferent as he is, and watches how it all plays out...and it's pretty convenient when you say, all things are a part of his plan....
a double standard no less, especially when he gets you prime parking space at costco...
 

Blackdog22

Well-Known Member
no it's not it's about the secrecy....

why was god so secretive about this girls horrific ordeal? why didn't he put it into someone's head that a girl was locked up for 25 yrs with her children...

your dilemma is that these things happen and god doesn't care, he just stands there, indifferent as he is, and watches how it all plays out...and it's pretty convenient when you say, all things are a part of his plan....
a double standard no less, especially when he gets you prime parking space at costco...


This. Is right on the money. God "tells" people to go "pray" for someone they may see in a wheelchair or sick all the time, but he somehow manages to forget the person being tortured in a basement for 25 years that no one can see. Why is it that people only hear voices telling them to help "visible" people. I think this is a simple proof that people just hear themselves talk. That little voice in their head is nothing, but themselves. If God told someone that there were 6 children locked in a basement with a mother who was being raped constantly and then the police investigated the situation and found it to be true, now THAT would be some reason to consider that the voice in your head is valid.
 
Top