I would have to say that humans have cognitive thoughts. I don't believe you will find this in another creature on earth. Simple example. Food. Animals know that they need to eat when they are hungry, but humans can choose to go a day without food even if they are hungry. We know we will die without nourishment of some kind. Animals just know they are hungry. But maybe some of you have seen animals on diets before. I'm not worldly.
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What Sets Humans Apart?
- Thread starter Comet
- Start date
Smoke
Done here.
Dolphins have names, gorillas can learn sign language -- I remember reading about Koko calling somebody, when she was angry, "you dirty bad toilet" -- and a number of animals besides humans exhibit the use of tools and problem-solving behavior. That sounds like cognition to me.lasthope said:
HAHAHA. Thanks for the laugh. Dolphins have names? Given by humans. Gorillas can learn sign language? Taught to them by humans who invented it. And the use of tools and problem solving behavior is driven by a basic need to get what they want. Yes, maybe a monkey with a broken paw can get a banana out of a tree using a stick. Using human qualities to get what they want. Admirable? Yes, and maybe a guest shot on animal planet. But I can plan out the murder of that same monkey tonight, go to bed, wake up in the morning with the same agenda, shower, shave, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, eat dinner, grab a knife, change my mind and decide a gun would be easier, go out, shoot the monkey. Not because I am hungry. Not because I am feeding a basic need. Not because the monkey made too much noise and ticked me off. But just because I wanted to see a dead monkey. Or I can change my mind right before I pull that trigger and realize that killing a broken paw little monkey just for fun is something only a human would do
kreeden
Virus of the Mind
I don't think hat you understood what Midnight was saying Losthope . Dolphins have names given them by theirslves , not human names . As do Ravens .
As for the question asked at the beginning of the thread , I think that anyone who knows Ravens , or House Cats would agree that humans aren't the only ones with hubris .
But Sunstone has already pointed that out .
As for the question asked at the beginning of the thread , I think that anyone who knows Ravens , or House Cats would agree that humans aren't the only ones with hubris .
But Sunstone has already pointed that out .So the scientists say. Has a dolphin ever popped out of the water and told you, " Hey, Charlie over there would appreciate it if you would stop calling him Flipper." Maybe one has and it just failed to translate it into english for you. Which a human could do if trained in that language. I am not doubting the intelligence of the dolphin. They are smart, as proven by John Lilly in the 50's. But, if the cognitive thought is there and these dolphins do talk to one another, then I would suggest that one of there intelligent conversations would be " Hey Bill, watch out for those huge nets. Jim swam into one of those 2 weeks ago and we havent seen him since." I am simply saying that where an animals intelligence stops, human intelligence continues. Humans can think things out to complete a cognitive thought.
PureX
Veteran Member
Hubris is a value judgment. I don't think it applies in this case.Comet said:
I would say that what sets us apart is imagination. We have the ability to look at one object or scenario and imagine it being different from what it is, and then we can imagine how we might change it to make it more the way we would like it to be. This led us to use tools, and to abstract conceptual thought, which has made us the "top dogs" of the animal world.
Yerda
Veteran Member
I was speaking to my mum's cat today, his English is poor, what I could make out was that the dogs are planning a holy war enacted by dropping nuclear enriched works of art (painted by Fido himslef) into litter trays the world around. To celebrate victory they're going to get sloshed and watch porn. Hey, they're only animals!
Smoke
Done here.
Obviously, there are many differences between humans and other animals, just as there are between any species and other animals. But if what's being sought is some qualitative difference, something that sets us apart from the animal kingdom, I don't think there's anything to be found, whether good or bad. Other animals do the "good" things that we think set up apart, like develop culture, create art, think, use tools, use language, etc. There are even species of insects that practice farming. And there are other animals who do the "bad" things we think set us apart, like kill for sport, engage in power struggles and violence, and practice selective infanticide. We're just one kind of animal with our own particular characteristics.
The traits that most set us apart are greater intelligence, bipedal locomotion, and opposable thumbs -- none of which are necessarily restricted to our species. These traits give us abilities that are dramatically advanced as compared to other animals. There are other animals, though, that dramatically outstrip us in fleetness of foot, swimming, climbing, physical strength, flight, reproductive capacity, and species viability.
We're a species that has so far lasted about 200,000 years, and it's entirely possible that we're nearer our end than our beginning. We're as vulnerable to a giant asteroid, for instance, as the dinosaurs were -- if we don't take ourselves out first. The descendants of the arthropods and cephalopods may well be around long after we're gone, and for sheer viability, there's probably nothing that can surpass the mighty bacteria.
The traits that most set us apart are greater intelligence, bipedal locomotion, and opposable thumbs -- none of which are necessarily restricted to our species. These traits give us abilities that are dramatically advanced as compared to other animals. There are other animals, though, that dramatically outstrip us in fleetness of foot, swimming, climbing, physical strength, flight, reproductive capacity, and species viability.
We're a species that has so far lasted about 200,000 years, and it's entirely possible that we're nearer our end than our beginning. We're as vulnerable to a giant asteroid, for instance, as the dinosaurs were -- if we don't take ourselves out first. The descendants of the arthropods and cephalopods may well be around long after we're gone, and for sheer viability, there's probably nothing that can surpass the mighty bacteria.
kreeden
Virus of the Mind
lasthope said:
First off , sorry about the misspelling of your name . { spelling is not one of my strong points ... }
Nor is languages . However , all languages do have their limitations . Crows have a vocabulary of something close to 300 " words ". The English language is full of German , French , and other words to make up for ideas that never came about whiledeveloping the language , so why would any other species be different ?
True , in ways we are smarter then Ravens ... but you will never get a Raven to believe it ...
And it is rather hard to compare intelligence between species as survival skills have developed along different lines . Surival " logic " or reasoning would also have developed to best suit those skills . How much intelligence does it take to fly ? Or find your ways across oceans without the use of maps or compass ? Remember , without the language to instruct , much of those skills are self taught .
Druidus
Keeper of the Grove
Humans are quite the interesting animal. We are distinguished by several of our traits. For instance, no other animal on Earth can challenge man's ability in running endurance. We can outrun, over long distances, any other animal on the planet. It's one of the things we were built for (early humans ran down prey, like antelope, until the antelope overheats or collapses [they have no sweat glands and overheating is easy for them]).
However, some more interesting distinguishing characteristics exist in the brain. We have HUGE prefontal cortices, extensively developed anterior cingulates, and a variety of other interesting attributes. Our brain-body size ratio isn't really all that amazing, we equal field mice with 2% of our mass apportioned to our brain, while a small monkey can have a brain approximately 4% the mass of its body.
To quote "Up From Dragons", "[O]ur uniqueness lies in our brain's large size compared to what would be expected for a primate of our body weight; our brains are roughly three times the expected mass. If chimps had brains the size of humans', they would have to grow to over a third of a ton - 812 lb. And monkeys would weight two-thirds of a ton - 1339 lb. Moreover, the relative increases in mass in our brains were selective: Our primary sensory and motor cortices have only the surface area that would be expected for an ape of our body size. What ballooned up our brains was vastly expanded temporal, parietal, and especially prefontal areas."
That book is wonderful at explaining our uniqueness. It presents a theory of how and why we evolved that is different from most in a few ways. It's a very interesting book, and I'd recommend it to anybody interested in such matters.
However, some more interesting distinguishing characteristics exist in the brain. We have HUGE prefontal cortices, extensively developed anterior cingulates, and a variety of other interesting attributes. Our brain-body size ratio isn't really all that amazing, we equal field mice with 2% of our mass apportioned to our brain, while a small monkey can have a brain approximately 4% the mass of its body.
To quote "Up From Dragons", "[O]ur uniqueness lies in our brain's large size compared to what would be expected for a primate of our body weight; our brains are roughly three times the expected mass. If chimps had brains the size of humans', they would have to grow to over a third of a ton - 812 lb. And monkeys would weight two-thirds of a ton - 1339 lb. Moreover, the relative increases in mass in our brains were selective: Our primary sensory and motor cortices have only the surface area that would be expected for an ape of our body size. What ballooned up our brains was vastly expanded temporal, parietal, and especially prefontal areas."
That book is wonderful at explaining our uniqueness. It presents a theory of how and why we evolved that is different from most in a few ways. It's a very interesting book, and I'd recommend it to anybody interested in such matters.
Cynic
Well-Known Member
Not to digress from the OP, but I think it's odd to recognize and point out the differences, when from a more objective perspective, (IMO) there are more similarities than realized (of course it depends upon the animal). I often come across material that highlights similarities of nonhuman behavior with human behavior rather than contrasting it.
I think what makes the real difference is not size, but wiring. Hence the neanderthals had slightly larger brain cases than the modern human, however they did not leave behind art or elaborate burials like the early sapiens did, which are signs of more advanced thinking.
Druidus said:
I think what makes the real difference is not size, but wiring. Hence the neanderthals had slightly larger brain cases than the modern human, however they did not leave behind art or elaborate burials like the early sapiens did, which are signs of more advanced thinking.
krashlocke
Member
I submit that the suggestion that hubris setting us apart from the animals is more profound than may have been intentioned. Truly, isn't it our own egotism and pride that has us constantly wondering why are different from the other animals with whom we coexist?
Mankind has a long and glorious history of setting itself apart from nature in virtually every aspect, right down to the term "natural" as opposed to "synthetic". Something "natural" comes from nature, yet throughout nature, creatures are constantly engaging in manufacture of new materials, structures, and designs. Our designs, structures, chemicals, &c aren't from that, simply more complex. A beehive is no more or less natural than a nuclear power plant.
By the same token is mankind no more or less an animal than anything else.
On a more simplistc note, it should be quite obvious what seperates us from the other animals: we can't mate with them. That seems to be an effective litmus test regarding the difference between a species and a race.
Mankind has a long and glorious history of setting itself apart from nature in virtually every aspect, right down to the term "natural" as opposed to "synthetic". Something "natural" comes from nature, yet throughout nature, creatures are constantly engaging in manufacture of new materials, structures, and designs. Our designs, structures, chemicals, &c aren't from that, simply more complex. A beehive is no more or less natural than a nuclear power plant.
By the same token is mankind no more or less an animal than anything else.
On a more simplistc note, it should be quite obvious what seperates us from the other animals: we can't mate with them. That seems to be an effective litmus test regarding the difference between a species and a race.
