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What the New Testament says about God is true

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The issue is not that humanity should work towards world peace, as most reasonable people would like to see, but that it can really only be achieved by following the Baha'i faith?
Never did I say that world peace can only be achieved by following the Baha'i Faith -- NEVER EVER.
If some other Baha'is believe that that's there problem, but the Baha'i Writings do not say that.
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult. But the Baha'i do spend a lot of energy explaining to others how they wrongly understand their own religions. Especially Christians. They really do. Of course there will be pushback in religious discussion forums.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Christians spend a lot of energy explaining to Baha'is how they wrongly understand the Bible.
Christians do not own the Bible or exclusive rights to interpret it.

I do not mind the push-back because I learn a lot from it. I learn what is true and what is false.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
But Trailblazer, does the Baha'i Faith believe all must come to believe in Baha'u'llah?
The "one common faith" quote below is what I base it on. The claim is that Baha'u'llah is the Christ, is the Mahdi, is Kalki, is the Maitreya. The Baha'is claim he is the fulfillment of the promised one of all the major religions. The Baha'i plan is for the unity of the whole world... not a bad plan to have... if it's true... and if it can work. And it all starts with... is Baha'u'llah really all he claims to be?
The issue is, you are taking the thoughts of another, who is yet to see the full concept plan, as being factually correct, I can assure you those thoughts are erroneous and not factually correct.
"Erroneous"? Then show me where I'm wrong. Here' some more stuff from your own religion...
The answer the Bahá'í Faith provides to this question is "revealed religion." In one of His major works, the Kitab-i-Iqan (the Book of Certitude), Bahá'u'lláh explained that God, the Creator, has intervened and will continue to intervene in human history by means of chosen Messengers. These Messengers, Whom Bahá'u'lláh called "Manifestations of God," are principally the Founders of the major revealed religions, such as Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, and so forth...​
Thus the principle of the unity of religion means that all of the great religious Founders--the Manifestations--have come from God, and that all of the religious systems established by Them are part of a single divine plan directed by God.​
In reality, there is only one religion, the religion of God. This one religion is continually evolving, and each particular religious system represents a stage in the evolution of the whole. The Bahá'í Faith represents the current stage in the evolution of religion.​
Again, not bad... if it's true. But... every religion has very different beliefs about who God is. Or even, how many Gods are there. How do Baha'is deal with these "apparent" contradictions?

Baha’u’llah attributes the differences between the divinely revealed religions to two essential causes: First, each messenger of God, while affirming certain basic truths already revealed by other prophets of God, also brings specific laws and teachings necessary for the time in which he lives.​
Second, the followers of previous religions, either through ignorance or corruption, have always misunderstood to some extent the meanings of the past teachings. Rituals, superstitions, and spurious beliefs are added to the religions, thereby enhancing their apparent differences. This problem is compounded by strong attachments to tradition that prevent people from investigating the truth of matters.​


Yeah, what's so wrong with that? Are we all one people? Do we all share one planet? But are all religions one? Did they all come from one God? Baha'is say, "yes". If that's true, then sure, they are the next religion from God in the progression. But, again, is that true?
You at least revealed with that passage from your scripture that Baha’is are an institution that the rest of us must be wary and suspicious of.
Be wary of all of the proselytizing religions. They all can't be right. Each thinks that they have the truth, and that they need to share that truth with all people. Baha'is can sound like they accept all religions as is... that they aren't interested in converting people to their religion. I don't think that's true.

And, if by chance, what they are preaching is true, then they should be telling everybody. And we should all listen... and even join them. But I have listened. And I have some doubts about their claims. It doesn't mean I'm right. Maybe they're right. But... by the way they answer my questions, it has only increased my doubts.

But, my disclaimer, I believe most any religious belief will work and will help people... if those people believe it is true and apply its teachings. So, I believe the Baha'i Faith is working for those people that have chosen to believe in it.
 

Sumadji

Active Member
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Christians spend a lot of energy explaining to Baha'is how they wrongly understand the Bible.
Christians do not own the Bible or exclusive rights to interpret it.
Well basically I think most Christians don't have much energy to spend on what Baha'i believe, until the Baha'i start lecturing Christians about what they should believe. But perhaps we should leave it there for now?
Never did I say that world peace can only be achieved by following the Baha'i Faith -- NEVER EVER.
If some other Baha'is believe that that's there problem, but the Baha'i Writings do not say that.
But it is the eventual object?

All nations and kindreds,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá likewise has written, “…will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”

Not the Baha'i religion, then?

I do respect your sincerity. I don't really want to go on with this
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The issue is not that humanity should work towards world peace, as most reasonable people would like to see, but that it can really only be achieved by following the Baha'i faith?
It sure sounds to me like Baha'u'llah expects his ideas on how to establish peace to be followed.
God’s purpose in sending His Prophets unto men is twofold. The first is to liberate the children of men from the darkness of ignorance, and guide them to the light of true understanding. The second is to ensure the peace and tranquillity of mankind, and provide all the means by which they can be established.​
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, pp. 79-80)[2]​
O ye that dwell on earth! The distinguishing feature that marketh the preeminent character of this Supreme Revelation consisteth in that We have ... laid down the essential prerequisites of concord, of understanding, of complete and enduring unity. Well is it with them that keep My statutes.​
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 97)​
The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.​
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 286)​
The sixth Glad-Tidings is the establishment of the Lesser Peace, details of which have formerly been revealed from Our Most Exalted Pen. Great is the blessedness of him who upholdeth it and observeth whatsoever hath been ordained by God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.​
(“Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas”, (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1988), p. 23)​
Again... if he's for real... if he's really from some real God, then why not listen to him? But can Baha'is say that? That would be too pushy. But to subtly nudge is okay.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The "one common faith" quote below is what I base it on.
“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

I believe this will happen eventually because it was ordained by God, but there is no reason to believe that the one common Faith will be the Baha'i Faith. It will be whatever religion is the current religion that was revealed by God through a Messenger of God when this finally occurs.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well basically I think most Christians don't have much energy to spend on what Baha'i believe, until the Baha'i start lecturing Christians about what they should believe. But perhaps we should leave it there for now?
I really don't see any Baha'is lecturing Christians about what they should believe, but let me know if you see any, because we have been admonished not to do this.

Most Baha'is don't have much energy to spend on what Christians believe, until the Christians start lecturing Baha'is about what they should believe, which Christians often do. It is not good enough for Christians that we believe in Jesus, we have to believe that Jesus is the only way and all other Messengers of God are false.

I agree that we should leave it there for now.
But it is the eventual object?

All nations and kindreds,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá likewise has written, “…will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”

Not the Baha'i religion, then?
No, not necessarily the Baha'i Faith, just one common Faith, as I just explained to CG #107

In case you don't know this, the Baha'i Faith does not teach that Baha'u'llah is the last Messenger of God who will ever come to earth. We believe that Messengers will continue to be sent by God as long as humans exist on earth.
I do respect your sincerity. I don't really want to go on with this
Thanks, and I also respect your sincerity, but I do not want to go on with this either.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
"Erroneous"? Then show me where I'm wrong. Here' some more stuff from your own religion...
Sorry CG, ran out of time off to work, but yes erroneous as all we are trying to do here is foster the oneness of humanity.

Hopefully find time this afternoon, but I have car and generator issues as well, so all work no play at this time. I do my own mechanics.

P/S Move answer to other OP

Regards Tony
 
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Sumadji

Active Member
really don't see any Baha'is lecturing Christians about what they should believe, but let me know if you see any, because we have been admonished not to do this.
We could start with Baha'u'llah's 1869 Letter to Pope Pius IX and go forward from there. But we've agreed to leave it?
sure sounds to me like Baha'u'llah expects his ideas on how to establish peace to be followed.
And that his own writings should supercede and update all other religious teachings for the next 800 years until the next messenger arrives. That's long enough for us. But I've travelled this road too often with Baha'i, who find words to fudge
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
We could start with Baha'u'llah's 1869 Letter to Pope Pius IX and go forward from there. But we've agreed to leave it?
I said: really don't see any Baha'is lecturing Christians about what they should believe, but let me know if you see any, because we have been admonished not to do this.

Baha'u'llah announced His mission to the kings and rulers of the earth because in His estimation it was necessary for them to know who he was, but that is not the same as Baha'is lecturing Christians or anyone else about what they should believe.

Baha'is believe that there is no compulsion in religion, as it says in the Qur'an.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
We could start with Baha'u'llah's 1869 Letter to Pope Pius IX and go forward from there. But we've agreed to leave it?
Happy to discuss. That was God talking to the Pope, so it was great advice.

You may notice there was no compulsion, but Baha'u'llah did say what would happen to him if he chose not to listen and look what did to the Pope and the Church.

It is in the New Testament, what Jesus would say to those that speak in His name at the end of ages.

The Baha'i share what was offered, no compulsion.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
We could start with Baha'u'llah's 1869 Letter to Pope Pius IX and go forward from there. But we've agreed to leave it?

And that his own writings should supercede and update all other religious teachings for the next 800 years until the next messenger arrives. That's long enough for us. But I've travelled this road too often with Baha'i, who find words to fudge
Well, when I first met Baha'is, they were saying that the lesser peace would happen soon. They used to say, "the promised day has come", "A new world order is being unfurled."

I guess now the new Baha'i message is someday, a long time from now, we will have peace and unity in the world... but they add, "Don't hold your breath."

The rest of this post is aimed at the Baha'is...

So, let me ask the Baha'is one more time... In which prophecy, in which religion, does it say the promised one would come and not establish peace in the world? That he'd come, get rejected, exiled, thrown in prison, and die and not establish peace? But peace might get established when the next guy come in a thousand years.

Anything less than establishing peace on Earth would be a failure. Because Baha'is themselves proclaim that their prophet has fulfilled all the prophecies. So, what is predicted in the Bible about what the Messiah will do? What is predicted in the NT that Christ will do upon his return?
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
The writer of John is in no position to make a claim like that.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Apples & oranges (re verse 11)

And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of YHWH before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:18-20
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I'll pass, but thanks for the offer. It seems you don't get many takers?
Not at this time, but I am optimistic that many will see the need to undertake a revaluation of their current frames of references.

World events will not unfold as per their expectations, but I can say they are unfolding as Baha'u'llah said they would, there is more to come.

Regards Tony
 
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