What theories underpin DEI ?

[icehorse]

I believe that DEI or JEDI initiatives all rely on a set of underlying theories.

I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to share what they think these underlying theories are? It strikes me that if you're a supporter of DEI, you ought to be able to explain why.

 

[Quintessence]

I haven't heard DEI being talked about in this way, though it might be in academic (specifically sociological) circles where the concept of "theory" is more relevant. I have heard it talked about in terms of underlying values or principles, though. Those values are pretty self-explanatory and in the words that DEI stands for: valuing diversity, valuing equity, valuing inclusion. Basically, being a good and decent human who welcomes all voices at the table and gives them an opportunity to speak... encouraging and enabling civil dialogue... that sort of thing. Not sure what there is to explain about that. That we live in an era where we have to "explain why" for basic common decency is... really quite sad, frankly.

 

[icehorse]

I haven't heard DEI being talked about in this way, though it might be in academic (specifically sociological) circles where the concept of "theory" is more relevant. I have heard it talked about in terms of underlying values or principles, though. Those values are pretty self-explanatory and in the words that DEI stands for: valuing diversity, valuing equity, valuing inclusion. Basically, being a good and decent human who welcomes all voices at the table and gives them an opportunity to speak... encouraging and enabling civil dialogue... that sort of thing. Not sure what there is to explain about that. That we live in an era where we have to "explain why" for basic common decency is... really quite sad, frankly.

Well I think we could use the values you listed as a starting point! I'm going to provide the same DEI document that I provided in the DEI thread I started a few days back.

My question would be this: Does it appear to you that that document is relying exclusively on the values you listed above, or were there other theories in play during the creation of that document?

Secondly, I think that in this case, the devil is in the details. E.g., what do they REALLY mean by diversity? What do they REALLY mean by equity?

It seems to me that these are fair AND essential questions, that deserve direct, honest answers, correct?

Edit: oops, document now provided, sorry!

 

[Orbit]

Well I think we could use the values you listed as a starting point! I'm going to provide the same DEI document that I provided in the DEI thread I started a few days back.

My question would be this: Does it appear to you that that document is relying exclusively on the values you listed above, or were there other theories in play during the creation of that document?

Secondly, I think that in this case, the devil is in the details. E.g., what do they REALLY mean by diversity? What do they REALLY mean by equity?

It seems to me that these are fair AND essential questions, that deserve direct, honest answers, correct?

I think @Quintessence already answered those questions in their post. Why are you searching for hidden meaning?

 

[icehorse]

I think @Quintessence already answered those questions in their post. Why are you searching for hidden meaning?

I like the values that @Quintessence listed, but I don't think the DEI document is truly aligned with those values.

 

[Left Coast]

I believe that DEI or JEDI initiatives all rely on a set of underlying theories.

I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to share what they think these underlying theories are?

It seems like you have a set of theories in mind. It would save everyone time if you just shared them and then people could say what they think about them.

 

[icehorse]

It seems like you have a set of theories in mind. It would save everyone time if you just shared them and then people could say what they think about them.

In this case, "saving time" isn't high on my list. I'm trying to understand how people think about this, so I'm asking honest questions.

 

[Quintessence]

I like the values that @Quintessence listed, but I don't think the DEI document is truly aligned with those values.

Maybe, maybe not - I guess I'm not especially interested in dissecting a specific edge case at a university I don't work for. I feel more comfortable speaking from what I know - which is how DEI is being implemented where I live and work. All I've been seeing in my state are some unfortunate and misguided attacks on DEI by politicians that don't understand what it is or what it does for our students here.

Student success is a central thrust of the university's mission and administration looks at all sorts of data to assess that. It enables the university to identify problems and then create new programs and initiatives to assist with student success. For example, if there is a certain class that has a high drop/fail rate, that prompts all sorts of things from reconsidering the course pre-requisites to staffing help rooms specific for that course. Similarly, if achievement gaps are noted for certain student populations, initiatives might be created to help support that specific student population. That population could be first-generation students, transfer students, international students, LGBTQ+ students, multicultural students, whatever. A lot of DEI initiatives are born out of resolving issues we see in student success - addressing the gaps - based on hard data we have about our students. Talking to some of these politicians, though, you wouldn't know that or understand that.

In some ways, that's fair. I wasn't really exposed to DEI stuff before I started working behind the scenes at university. And when I first encountered it, I didn't get it. I felt like these student groups were getting special treatment that wasn't justified. Then I started attending meetings where they actually went over the data and that these programs were data-driven student success and support initiatives. Then I went "oh... I had no idea first gen students struggled so much compared to the rest of the student population! I get why we have this first gen support program now!" and so on. Sometimes, the data I get to see is... really depressing and shocking. But on the plus side, when we have the data, we can launch support initiatives to help our students! Now, the politicians just need to get out of the damned way and let us do our job instead of trying to "dismantle DEI" which in effect is dismantling our efforts to address achievement gaps and help students succeed.

 

[sayak83]

Well I think we could use the values you listed as a starting point! I'm going to provide the same DEI document that I provided in the DEI thread I started a few days back.

My question would be this: Does it appear to you that that document is relying exclusively on the values you listed above, or were there other theories in play during the creation of that document?

Secondly, I think that in this case, the devil is in the details. E.g., what do they REALLY mean by diversity? What do they REALLY mean by equity?

It seems to me that these are fair AND essential questions, that deserve direct, honest answers, correct?

I am also answering the same. I see nothing in the document that is not faithful to the basic and simple values Quintessence describes.

 

[Left Coast]

In this case, "saving time" isn't high on my list. I'm trying to understand how people think about this, so I'm asking honest questions.

Enjoy your meander around the bush.

 

[Orbit]

Maybe, maybe not - I guess I'm not especially interested in dissecting a specific edge case at a university I don't work for. I feel more comfortable speaking from what I know - which is how DEI is being implemented where I live and work. All I've been seeing in my state are some unfortunate and misguided attacks on DEI by politicians that don't understand what it is or what it does for our students here.

Student success is a central thrust of the university's mission and administration looks at all sorts of data to assess that. It enables the university to identify problems and then create new programs and initiatives to assist with student success. For example, if there is a certain class that has a high drop/fail rate, that prompts all sorts of things from reconsidering the course pre-requisites to staffing help rooms specific for that course. Similarly, if achievement gaps are noted for certain student populations, initiatives might be created to help support that specific student population. That population could be first-generation students, transfer students, international students, LGBTQ+ students, multicultural students, whatever. A lot of DEI initiatives are born out of resolving issues we see in student success - addressing the gaps - based on hard data we have about our students. Talking to some of these politicians, though, you wouldn't know that or understand that.

In some ways, that's fair. I wasn't really exposed to DEI stuff before I started working behind the scenes at university. And when I first encountered it, I didn't get it. I felt like these student groups were getting special treatment that wasn't justified. Then I started attending meetings where they actually went over the data and that these programs were data-driven student success and support initiatives. Then I went "oh... I had no idea first gen students struggled so much compared to the rest of the student population! I get why we have this first gen support program now!" and so on. Sometimes, the data I get to see is... really depressing and shocking. But on the plus side, when we have the data, we can launch support initiatives to help our students! Now, the politicians just need to get out of the damned way and let us do our job instead of trying to "dismantle DEI" which in effect is dismantling our efforts to address achievement gaps and help students succeed.

Every word of this is the absolute truth. Bravo!

 

[icehorse]

Maybe, maybe not - I guess I'm not especially interested in dissecting a specific edge case at a university I don't work for. I feel more comfortable speaking from what I know - which is how DEI is being implemented where I live and work. All I've been seeing in my state are some unfortunate and misguided attacks on DEI by politicians that don't understand what it is or what it does for our students here.

Student success is a central thrust of the university's mission and administration looks at all sorts of data to assess that.

I'm all for student success. And I'm all for recognizing that some students might need extra support, and then giving them that support.

==

As for the politicians, imagine I AM one (I'm not, but imagine I am). In fact, imagine I'm Barack Obama. He said (man do I love this quote): "My policy is to understand a person before I disagree with them."

So here I am, sincerely trying to understand DEI, and no one here seems willing to really explain it.

So again, I'm happy to accept your experience of DEI, and I think your goals are laudable!

But your goals and the descriptions you've given do not seem to jive with what's in the document.

As for this being an edge case, I don't think that's an accurate take. Remember this document is directed at ALL community colleges in California!

 

[Orbit]

I'm all for student success. And I'm all for recognizing that some students might need extra support, and then giving them that support.

==

As for the politicians, imagine I AM one (I'm not, but imagine I am). In fact, imagine I'm Barack Obama. He said (man do I love this quote): "My policy is to understand a person before I disagree with them."

So here I am, sincerely trying to understand DEI, and no one here seems willing to really explain it.

So again, I'm happy to accept your experience of DEI, and I think your goals are laudable!

But your goals and the descriptions you've given do not seem to jive with what's in the document.

As for this being an edge case, I don't think that's an accurate take. Remember this document is directed at ALL community colleges in California!

Explain exactly what "doesn't jive" for you.

 

[Quintessence]

So here I am, sincerely trying to understand DEI, and no one here seems willing to really explain it.

Really?

So all these words I've spewed about how DEI is part of data-driven student success initiatives that identifies achievement gaps in different student groups is... confusing somehow? Data that shows (for example) that women are under-preforming in STEM and therefore that having a program that supports women in STEM to help achieve equal success to other groups is... confusing somehow? What about this haven't I explained well?

 

[icehorse]

Really?

So all these words I've spewed about how DEI is part of data-driven student success initiatives that identifies achievement gaps in different student groups is... confusing somehow? Data that shows (for example) that women are under-preforming in STEM and therefore that having a program that supports women in STEM to help achieve equal success to other groups is... confusing somehow? What about this haven't I explained well?

I appreciate what you've said!

But my question is, how is what you're saying consistent with the document?

It's not you I'm questioning, it's the document

 

[icehorse]

Explain exactly what "doesn't jive" for you.

I mostly agree with the goals that @Quintessence is advocating for.

But I'm struggling to see how the document in question supports those goals? To be fair, parts of the document seem to be in keeping, but parts do not.

I'm hoping that someone will stand up and explain why the document says what it does.

 

[anna.]

Explain exactly what "doesn't jive" for you.

For some people, DEI has to be wrong, and it doesn't matter how clearly it's supported by data, by experience, by professional knowledge. It must be wrong, and stay wrong, resolutely, until the end, because that's the only possible result that some will allow.

 

[Orbit]

I mostly agree with the goals that @Quintessence is advocating for.

But I'm struggling to see how the document in question supports those goals? To be fair, parts of the document seem to be in keeping, but parts do not.

I'm hoping that someone will stand up and explain why the document says what it does.

Which parts "do not" seem to be in keeping with the goals mentioned here for you?

 

[icehorse]

For some people, DEI has to be wrong, and it doesn't matter how clearly it's supported by data, by experience, by professional knowledge. It must be wrong, and stay wrong, resolutely, until the end, because that's the only possible result that some will allow.

LOL

 

[icehorse]

Which parts "do not" seem to be in keeping with the goals mentioned here for you?

Sigh, I know almost exactly how this will go, but I'll hope against hope that this time someone will engage these ideas honestly.

In the other DEI thread I listed numerous adversarial relationships explicitly encouraged in the document. So as just one example, it certainly appears FROM THIS DOCUMENT, as though DEI initiates a large number of adversarial relationships with western society. I will copy and paste that list here:

- experts vs. those with lived experience
- supporters of academic freedom and integrity vs. supporters of equity principles and those who have been traumatized
- colonizers vs. colonized
- Eurocentric vs. equity minded
- DEI supporters vs. those who construct barriers
- teacher vs. co-learner
- supporters of traditional curriculum vs. student agency in creating curriculum
- experts vs. an anti-racist collective
- traditional teachers vs. those with cultural humility