What theories underpin DEI ?

[Orbit]

Sigh, I know almost exactly how this will go, but I'll hope against hope that this time someone will engage these ideas honestly.

In the other DEI thread I listed numerous adversarial relationships explicitly encouraged in the document. So as just one example, it certainly appears FROM THIS DOCUMENT, as though DEI initiates a large number of adversarial relationships with western society. I will copy and paste that list here:

- experts vs. those with lived experience
- supporters of academic freedom and integrity vs. supporters of equity principles and those who have been traumatized
- colonizers vs. colonized
- Eurocentric vs. equity minded
- DEI supporters vs. those who construct barriers
- teacher vs. co-learner
- supporters of traditional curriculum vs. student agency in creating curriculum
- experts vs. an anti-racist collective
- traditional teachers vs. those with cultural humility

Why do you assume people posting here are dishonest? Why have you set this up as a "this vs. that" list, implying that these things are mutually exclusive?

 

[icehorse]

Why do you assume people posting here are dishonest? Why have you set this up as a "this vs. that" list, implying that these things are mutually exclusive?

There is a certain category of topics, for which RF apologists routinely fail to engage in honest discussions of the ideas. I have seen this behavior over and over and over again in recent months. Not all topics but some. One of the indications of this is that these topics are all "of a category", but despite repeated attempts to name this perspective, no one will stand up and own a name.

As for your second question: I didn't make this document, I didn't format it. Ask them why they imply all this mutual exclusivity.

 

[Orbit]

There is a certain category of topics, for which RF apologists routinely fail to engage in honest discussions of the ideas. I have seen this behavior over and over and over again in recent months. Not all topics but some. One of the indications of this is that these topics are all "of a category", but despite repeated attempts to name this perspective, no one will stand up and own a name.

As for your second question: I didn't make this document, I didn't format it. Ask them why they imply all this mutual exclusivity.

Forgive me, but what is the context for this list? Perhaps you could post a link to the document in its entirety?

 

[icehorse]

Ini

Forgive me, but what is the context for this list? Perhaps you could post a link to the document in its entirety?

Initially I made an error in an earlier post. But now if you look back to post #3 in this thread, you can download the document.

thanks

 

[Quintessence]

So one bit I didn't really address directly in mentioning how DEI emerges from student achievement gaps is going into more detail on what closing those gaps looks like and why. To try and keep a complex topic simple - and I'm not a DEI coordinator so I am hardly an expert on it - these are some of the ways DEI initiatives may support students to close achievement gaps:

• Financial Support. Specialized scholarships that target groups with low college enrollment to encourage them to pursue higher education. Reduced cost or sponsorship of tutoring, where tutoring is an extra expense at the institution. Study abroad scholarships to equalize opportunity for international travel.
• Academic Support. Peer learning groups or teams built around particular identities. Specialized academic intervention programs that support underperforming students within achievement gap demographics. Revisions to university policies that disproportionately harm students facing achievement gaps. Accommodations for students with health issues.
• Institutional Support. Creating a dedicated office with a team of staff to serve the unique needs and challenges faced by an underperforming student group. Providing physical infrastructure of safe space for these student groups. Affirming mission statements in support of all students and broadly empowering the success of all students.
• Social Support. Encouraging and funding student-run organizations that center around various aspects of student culture and identity. Hiring or providing access to diverse counseling staff so students feel more comfortable utilizing these services in times of distress. Hosting speakers and events that are inclusive of human diversity so students from diverse backgrounds so they feel more at home.

This isn't even close to an all-inclusive list. I intentionally left off what's probably the most important component - awareness and visibility. In order to begin supporting students from groups with achievement gaps, they have to be visible. They have to be included in the conversation or seen and acknowledged as existing. What are some ways to do that? Getting rid of the "traditional" Eurocentric, patriarchal, and colonialist narratives used for instruction. Students learn best when they can connect what they are learning to what they already know - what they already know includes who they are culturally and personally. If the majority of stories we tell in education are only about white males, you make it harder for anyone who isn't white and male to engage with the content. Being represented - being visible - is so, so important. It makes you feel welcome as a learner as opposed to invisible and irrelevant. A major reason why students drop out of college is because they have trouble finding a sense of community - feeling welcome and supported. Awareness and visibility is huge in combating that.

 

[anna.]

Maybe, maybe not - I guess I'm not especially interested in dissecting a specific edge case at a university I don't work for. I feel more comfortable speaking from what I know - which is how DEI is being implemented where I live and work. All I've been seeing in my state are some unfortunate and misguided attacks on DEI by politicians that don't understand what it is or what it does for our students here.

Student success is a central thrust of the university's mission and administration looks at all sorts of data to assess that. It enables the university to identify problems and then create new programs and initiatives to assist with student success. For example, if there is a certain class that has a high drop/fail rate, that prompts all sorts of things from reconsidering the course pre-requisites to staffing help rooms specific for that course. Similarly, if achievement gaps are noted for certain student populations, initiatives might be created to help support that specific student population. That population could be first-generation students, transfer students, international students, LGBTQ+ students, multicultural students, whatever. A lot of DEI initiatives are born out of resolving issues we see in student success - addressing the gaps - based on hard data we have about our students. Talking to some of these politicians, though, you wouldn't know that or understand that.

In some ways, that's fair. I wasn't really exposed to DEI stuff before I started working behind the scenes at university. And when I first encountered it, I didn't get it. I felt like these student groups were getting special treatment that wasn't justified. Then I started attending meetings where they actually went over the data and that these programs were data-driven student success and support initiatives. Then I went "oh... I had no idea first gen students struggled so much compared to the rest of the student population! I get why we have this first gen support program now!" and so on. Sometimes, the data I get to see is... really depressing and shocking. But on the plus side, when we have the data, we can launch support initiatives to help our students! Now, the politicians just need to get out of the damned way and let us do our job instead of trying to "dismantle DEI" which in effect is dismantling our efforts to address achievement gaps and help students succeed.

What a great post. Thank you for it, and for your efforts at university.

 

[anna.]

So one bit I didn't really address directly in mentioning how DEI emerges from student achievement gaps is going into more detail on what closing those gaps looks like and why. To try and keep a complex topic simple - and I'm not a DEI coordinator so I am hardly an expert on it - these are some of the ways DEI initiatives may support students to close achievement gaps:

• Financial Support. Specialized scholarships that target groups with low college enrollment to encourage them to pursue higher education. Reduced cost or sponsorship of tutoring, where tutoring is an extra expense at the institution. Study abroad scholarships to equalize opportunity for international travel.
• Academic Support. Peer learning groups or teams built around particular identities. Specialized academic intervention programs that support underperforming students within achievement gap demographics. Revisions to university policies that disproportionately harm students facing achievement gaps. Accommodations for students with health issues.
• Institutional Support. Creating a dedicated office with a team of staff to serve the unique needs and challenges faced by an underperforming student group. Providing physical infrastructure of safe space for these student groups. Affirming mission statements in support of all students and broadly empowering the success of all students.
• Social Support. Encouraging and funding student-run organizations that center around various aspects of student culture and identity. Hiring or providing access to diverse counseling staff so students feel more comfortable utilizing these services in times of distress. Hosting speakers and events that are inclusive of human diversity so students from diverse backgrounds so they feel more at home.

This isn't even close to an all-inclusive list. I intentionally left off what's probably the most important component - awareness and visibility. In order to begin supporting students from groups with achievement gaps, they have to be visible. They have to be included in the conversation or seen and acknowledged as existing. What are some ways to do that? Getting rid of the "traditional" Eurocentric, patriarchal, and colonialist narratives used for instruction. Students learn best when they can connect what they are learning to what they already know - what they already know includes who they are culturally and personally. If the majority of stories we tell in education are only about white males, you make it harder for anyone who isn't white and male to engage with the content. Being represented - being visible - is so, so important. It makes you feel welcome as a learner as opposed to invisible and irrelevant. A major reason why students drop out of college is because they have trouble finding a sense of community - feeling welcome and supported. Awareness and visibility is huge in combating that.

My local community college's graduation demographic from a few years ago: Minority students accounted for 1,334 of the 1,860 graduates. With numbers like that, colleges have to have programs in place for them. We've had a lot of immigrants from various countries over the decades (I was born here) and these students are representative of the community as it is now, which is very different from the overwhelmingly white demographic of my youth. Vive la différence! Of course the college should work diligently at inclusiveness for all students, so all of them can achieve their potential.

 

[icehorse]

They have to be included in the conversation or seen and acknowledged as existing. What are some ways to do that? Getting rid of the "traditional" Eurocentric, patriarchal, and colonialist narratives used for instruction. Students learn best when they can connect what they are learning to what they already know - what they already know includes who they are culturally and personally. If the majority of stories we tell in education are only about white males, you make it harder for anyone who isn't white and male to engage with the content. Being represented - being visible - is so, so important. It makes you feel welcome as a learner as opposed to invisible and irrelevant. A major reason why students drop out of college is because they have trouble finding a sense of community - feeling welcome and supported. Awareness and visibility is huge in combating that.

For some areas of study this makes sense. For courses I'll crudely categorize as "liberal arts" courses, I can see where you're headed. (But I'd be curious to know when Eurocentric, patriarchal and colonialist narratives are used in college courses, outside of perhaps history classes.)

But even in the liberal arts domain, I think we should teach - for example - "comparative colonialism" and I'd bet dollars to donuts what this document is proposing is teaching that only white Europeans committed colonialism. We should also expose students to Asian, and Muslim, Indigenous, and African colonialism, right?

As an experienced teacher I put extraordinary amounts of energy into crafting the examples and scenarios I use to teach. When teaching calculus or chemistry or physics or most any STEM-ish topic, these examples usually include no descriptions of individuals whatsoever. These examples usually start with "suppose you need to calculate X...". They do not start with "Bob, the white male needs to calculate X..."

Another question, why the call to de-expertize teachers? Why on earth should classes be "co-created"?

And why should we muzzle academic freedom?

Finally, college is SUPPOSED to prepare you for the real world. It is NOT meant to be a safe space. (It certainly was not a safe space for me!) If we provide all this welcoming support in college, then what will prepare students for their first interviews in the real world?

 

[Orbit]

Ini

Initially I made an error in an earlier post. But now if you look back to post #3 in this thread, you can download the document.

thanks

OK, I looked at the actual document, and now I am annoyed by your obfuscation of the context for that list. One one side is "traditional educational practice" and the other side is the "diversity we hope to achieve". It's not presented as one thing vs. another. It's just a list of educational practices with a list of alternatives or things to add in to pedagogy. Frankly I can't see what your concern is, all of these things seem perfectly reasonable to me. If you object to an item on the list, perhaps you could specify what that is and why you object.

 

[icehorse]

It's not presented as one thing vs. another.

Of course it is. You have to do some wild mental gymnastics to say otherwise.

See my post above, #28.

 

[Orbit]

Of course it is. You have to do some wild mental gymnastics to say otherwise.

See my post above, #28.

No, it's just pointing out that one thing has been traditional, and the other thing seeks to update the traditional view. I still fail to see your actual objection. Again, if you object to an item on the list, perhaps you could specify what that is and why you object.

 

[icehorse]

No, it's just pointing out that one thing has been traditional, and the other thing seeks to update the traditional view.

Not "update". Replace or "dismantle".

Again, if you object to an item on the list, perhaps you could specify what that is and why you object.

A few posts back I listed 6 objections I have..

 

[Orbit]

Not "update". Replace or "dismantle".


A few posts back I listed 6 objections I have..

I think "replace" and "dismantle" are ideological overlays that you are introducing. Personally, after Quintessence explaining to you how DEI works in colleges, I have a hard time understanding what there is left to ask about. I also wonder why you can't recount just ONE objection to ONE statement from the document that you have.

 

[icehorse]

I think "replace" and "dismantle" are ideological overlays that you are introducing. Personally, after Quintessence explaining to you how DEI works in colleges, I have a hard time understanding what there is left to ask about. I also wonder why you can't recount just ONE objection to ONE statement from the document that you have.

Words like "dismantle" came directly from the document. My objections came directly from the document. I have quoted directly from the document, several times across these two threads.

Have you actually read the document - every word of it? If so, you'd have seen that I have been quoting almost verbatim from it.

As for @Quintessence's explanations, I have already acknowledged them. But they do NOT speak to the document in question, and they do NOT answer my questions. I'm sure that many people have good intentions, and DEI sounds good on paper. But the devil is in the details and the details are quite worrisome.

 

[Orbit]

Words like "dismantle" came directly from the document. My objections came directly from the document. I have quoted directly from the document, several times across these two threads.

Have you actually read the document - every word of it? If so, you'd have seen that I have been quoting almost verbatim from it.

As for @Quintessence's explanations, I have already acknowledged them. But they do NOT speak to the document in question, and they do NOT answer my questions. I'm sure that many people have good intentions, and DEI sounds good on paper. But the devil is in the details and the details are quite worrisome.

This just sounds like the the same tactics I have heard from you before. It's just "concern" that leads you to question things you don't know anything about; you ignore any explanations given to you by experts in the field, and then look for nefarious "hidden meaning". I still think it's funny that you can't identify ONE specific thing from the document that disturbs you.

 

[icehorse]

you ignore any explanations given to you by experts in the field

I have - with jazz hands - acknowledged what's been said. And I have asked many questions of "the experts" that they have not answered.

and then look for nefarious "hidden meaning".

I'm reading the document. There is nothing hidden in it.

I still think it's funny that you can't identify ONE specific thing from the document that disturbs you.

Okay, since you seem to need to have your hand held, here are A FEW specific concerns I have with the document. There are many more, but here are a few:

1 - The word "equity" is used repeatedly. I have asked posters here what "equity" means in the context of DEI. crickets. I strongly suspect it's shorthand for "equality of outcome", which in my opinion is a horrible idea. Kurt Vonnegut's story "Harrison Bergeron" does a wonderful job of demonstrating the problems of pursuing "equality of outcome". To be clear, I am very much in favor of "equality of opportunity" and of "equality" in general.

2 - So all teachers are encouraged to "reword language from a colonized mindset to an equity mindset".

As I've asked earlier, how on earth does this apply to STEM-ish topics?
In addition, what is a "colonized mindset"? From what I know, it's shorthand for the worldview that western society is evil. I would relax a bit on this point if ANYWHERE in the document they acknowledge that colonization is hardly unique to Europeans. but of course they do not.

3 - Instead of acknowledging the expertise of professors, we're instructed to:

"dismantle institutional deference to hierarchies that perpetuate barriers"

I've offered a few thoughts, why don't you take a crack at explaining how we're meant to interpret that?

==

As I said, there are many more, this is just the tip of the iceberg...

 

[Orbit]

I have - with jazz hands - acknowledged what's been said. And I have asked many questions of "the experts" that they have not answered.



I'm reading the document. There is nothing hidden in it.



Okay, since you seem to need to have your hand held, here are A FEW specific concerns I have with the document. There are many more, but here are a few:

1 - The word "equity" is used repeatedly. I have asked posters here what "equity" means in the context of DEI. crickets. I strongly suspect it's shorthand for "equality of outcome", which in my opinion is a horrible idea. Kurt Vonnegut's story "Harrison Bergeron" does a wonderful job of demonstrating the problems of pursuing "equality of outcome". To be clear, I am very much in favor of "equality of opportunity" and of "equality" in general.

2 - So all teachers are encouraged to "reword language from a colonized mindset to an equity mindset".

As I've asked earlier, how on earth does this apply to STEM-ish topics?
In addition, what is a "colonized mindset"? From what I know, it's shorthand for the worldview that western society is evil. I would relax a bit on this point if ANYWHERE in the document they acknowledge that colonization is hardly unique to Europeans. but of course they do not.

3 - Instead of acknowledging the expertise of professors, we're instructed to:

"dismantle institutional deference to hierarchies that perpetuate barriers"

I've offered a few thoughts, we don't you take a crack at explaining how we're meant to interpret that?

==

As I said, there are many more, this is just the tip of the iceberg...

That's not how people in academia understand "equity". It doesn't refer to "equity of outcome" as you assume it does. It refers more to "leveling the playing field" e.g. giving the people the tools they need to succeed from where start out. Maybe the "colonized language" doesn't apply to STEM. So what? Nowhere does this specify that it does. "Hierarchies that perpetuate barriers" means just that. It means listening to students, which doesn't imply that the professor doesn't have expertise. it means that professors should be open to student perspectives. Again, I am absolutely agog that you have a problem with any of this. It's like you're just *looking* for problems and interpreting everything in the worst possible light.

 

[sayak83]

I'm all for student success. And I'm all for recognizing that some students might need extra support, and then giving them that support.

==

As for the politicians, imagine I AM one (I'm not, but imagine I am). In fact, imagine I'm Barack Obama. He said (man do I love this quote): "My policy is to understand a person before I disagree with them."

So here I am, sincerely trying to understand DEI, and no one here seems willing to really explain it.

So again, I'm happy to accept your experience of DEI, and I think your goals are laudable!

But your goals and the descriptions you've given do not seem to jive with what's in the document.

As for this being an edge case, I don't think that's an accurate take. Remember this document is directed at ALL community colleges in California!

At some point of time, you need to quote exactly what you find objectionable in "the document". Otherwise this discussion is meandering vaguely into the stygian chasm of meaninglessness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm reading the document. There is nothing hidden in it.

Then why keep asking for some deeper meaning behind everything like Frued who wanted everything analyzed for deeper, hidden, occult meanings (except those fallic shaped objects he sucked on)?

 

[sayak83]

I have - with jazz hands - acknowledged what's been said. And I have asked many questions of "the experts" that they have not answered.



I'm reading the document. There is nothing hidden in it.



Okay, since you seem to need to have your hand held, here are A FEW specific concerns I have with the document. There are many more, but here are a few:

1 - The word "equity" is used repeatedly. I have asked posters here what "equity" means in the context of DEI. crickets. I strongly suspect it's shorthand for "equality of outcome", which in my opinion is a horrible idea. Kurt Vonnegut's story "Harrison Bergeron" does a wonderful job of demonstrating the problems of pursuing "equality of outcome". To be clear, I am very much in favor of "equality of opportunity" and of "equality" in general.

2 - So all teachers are encouraged to "reword language from a colonized mindset to an equity mindset".

As I've asked earlier, how on earth does this apply to STEM-ish topics?
In addition, what is a "colonized mindset"? From what I know, it's shorthand for the worldview that western society is evil. I would relax a bit on this point if ANYWHERE in the document they acknowledge that colonization is hardly unique to Europeans. but of course they do not.

3 - Instead of acknowledging the expertise of professors, we're instructed to:

"dismantle institutional deference to hierarchies that perpetuate barriers"

I've offered a few thoughts, why don't you take a crack at explaining how we're meant to interpret that?

==

As I said, there are many more, this is just the tip of the iceberg...

1. Equity means equivalency of representation, access and opportunity. This has been explained by examples in the very same document! What you suspect is now-where to be seen.
Examples of equity given in the document
• Represent multiple cultures in textbooks and course materials.
• Use low-cost and zero cost textbooks/materials.
• Use open educational resources
Interrogate systemic and institutional barriers. (for example a single mother may have unique problems that make it difficult to stay in the dorm system in many UG institutes. We assume a certain type of ppl only to be enrolled in colleges and our facilities are only geared to work for them).
Reframe practices and policies to serve as a co-learner and engage in a partnership. (Open learning framework)
• Actively care for the whole human being in syllabi/classroom policies.
• Democratize the student/ teacher relationship and empower students’ agency over their own learning. (It is well demonstrated that not everyone learns the same way and some may have skills that remian hidden in a static lecture and exam type environment that is relevant to the course subject....like more hands-on skills etc. So how do we create a flexible curriculum that makes it possible for students to use their own abilities correctly).

What is the objection here.