What to you constitutes "modest" dress?

[Me Myself]

Did I say such a thing? No. Acting on the desire without engaging your prefrontal lobes first often does diminish the other person's personhood.


If you can't differentiate between sex and a common human courtesy, I truly feel sorry for you. (Hint--acts of common human courtesy don't have laws in place to protect people from being victimized.)


Methinks you have confusion over the status of sex. Sex is NOT a common human courtesy. It can be an act of intimacy, or an act of violence, or an act of manipulation, etc.

No, you are confused. I didnt say it is the same, I asked which difference made the humanhood thing valid.

About acting upon, you responded to a post where I was talking about desires not actions.

Then when it comes to actions, the ways in which it is done its what would make each case to be evaluated on its own.

And a common courtesy can be an act of intimacy, of violence and of manipulation too.

Both are simply human interactions. Sex tends to be a more intense one, but it is still a human interaction. Trying to have sex with a woman you sexually desire to have consensual sex with you obviously doesnt diminisn anyones personhood.

 

[crossfire]

No, you are confused. I didnt say it is the same, I asked which difference made the humanhood thing valid.

Are you sure about that? Consider this line:

And a common courtesy can be an act of intimacy, of violence and of manipulation too.

Can you give an example where a common courtesy is an act of violence too?

Both are simply human interactions. Sex tends to be a more intense one, but it is still a human interaction. Trying to have sex with a woman you sexually desire to have consensual sex with you obviously doesnt diminisn anyones personhood.

Let me repeat: if you do not engage your prefrontal lobes first, you are probably going to be missing something. This state is not conducive to becoming more aware of the totality of a person, which is what intimacy is all about.

 

[Me Myself]

Are you sure about that? Consider this line:

​

Can you give an example where a common courtesy is an act of violence too?


Let me repeat: if you do not engage your prefrontal lobes first, you are probably going to be missing something. This state is not conducive to becoming more aware of the totality of a person, which is what intimacy is all about.

Sure. IF you dont, you PROBABLY will miss something important. We agree on that.

I never debated that. I debated blanket assumptions. That on the other hand is much different


One can approach a woman with sexual desire and have his full social functions oerating as he tries to agree to a consensual sexual encounter.


About a common courtesy being an act of violence: force feeding someone who didnt ask you that you share what you were eating. It would be "common courtesy" rape . Seriously though, it would be a form of violence.

 

[crossfire]

About a common courtesy being an act of violence: force feeding someone who didnt ask you that you share what you were eating. It would be "common courtesy" rape . Seriously though, it would be a form of violence.

Try again. Force feeding is not a common courtesy.

 

[Me Myself]

Try again. Force feeding is not a common courtesy.

Of course its not, but feeding is. The force part is where the violence lies.

Equally, if there was violence involved we would agree the sex is no good.

So given your lack of reply to the rest of my post, I take it we are on the same page? Or did you find any othter thing to which you disagree?

 

[NIX]

From Merriam-Webster online-

Courtesy

a : general allowance despite facts : indulgence <hills called mountains by courtesy only>


Civilized life cannot be sustained without hypocrisy. A certain moral code, a degree of courtesy and decorum, are necessary to keep our instincts under a modicum of control. &#8212;Ian Buruma, New York Review of Books, 2 Nov. 2006

I think the problem is that courtesy is not a 'common' thing.
People who lack elementary refinement, people who are course, are not going to afford courtesies to others.

Just because a guy's (or gal's) physique/style/persona makes my hormonal juices flow on the inside, there is no good reason for me to allow that to be known on the outside unless the other person has given signs that this is an acceptably approachable area for us both to 'engage' in, or recognize outwardly, be it flirty humor or some kind of possible advancement of another kind.

You don't 'say' everything you're thinking and feeling out loud 'just because'.
If everyone did that, society could not function.

And women... they tend to veil and shroud their underhanded cattyness in a show of insincere and pretentious decorum. "Oh! Don't take offence!" "I didn't mean to offend you..."
yeah.
The problem is not what people do or don't wear, or that people get turned on by people, or that people have sexual thoughts or fantasies. The problem is not that you think I'm fat, or I think you need meds.

We live in a world of unrefined people. A world of men and women who don't know how to keep their thoughts and attitudes to themselves. That's the problem.

 

[Me Myself]

From Merriam-Webster online-

Courtesy



I think the problem is that courtesy is not a 'common' thing.
People who lack elementary refinement, people who are course, are not going to afford courtesies to others.

Just because a guy's (or gal's) physique/style/persona makes my hormonal juices flow on the inside, there is no good reason for me to allow that to be known on the outside unless the other person has given signs that this is an acceptably approachable area for us both to 'engage' in, or recognize outwardly, be it flirty humor or some kind of possible advancement of another kind.

You don't 'say' everything you're thinking and feeling out loud 'just because'.
If everyone did that, society could not function.

And women... they tend to veil and shroud their underhanded cattyness in a show of insincere and pretentious decorum. "Oh! Don't take offence!" "I didn't mean to offend you..."
yeah.
The problem is not what people do or don't wear, or that people get turned on by people, or that people have sexual thoughts or fantasies. The problem is not that you think I'm fat, or I think you need meds.

We live in a world of unrefined people. A world of men and women who don't know how to keep their thoughts and attitudes to themselves. That's the problem.

Signs? Sounds like catch 22.

You cant flirt unless the other one flirts first.

The problem is people can take offense at anything and they think it is someone else's responsibility because they decided it is.

 

[crossfire]

Of course its not, but feeding is. The force part is where the violence lies.

Feeding is a common courtesy? Since when?

Equally, if there was violence involved we would agree the sex is no good.

Obviously.

So given your lack of reply to the rest of my post, I take it we are on the same page? Or did you find any othter thing to which you disagree?

Alright, let me address them again:

No, you are confused. I didnt say it is the same, I asked which difference made the humanhood thing valid.

You were the one trying to equate sex with a taxi ride, or as taking something off a tall shelf for someone, and I was pointing out that mistaking someone for a taxi driver just because you want them to be one is ignoring the personhood of that person.

About acting upon, you responded to a post where I was talking about desires not actions.

Actions resulting from desires without engaging prefrontal lobes can lead to bad results. Can we agree on that?

Then when it comes to actions, the ways in which it is done its what would make each case to be evaluated on its own.

Agreed. However, this can be rather difficult to do if your mind has been overwhelmed by desire. Having your mind overwhelmed does not always yield good results. Can we agree on that? Have you ever been annoyed by something someone did to you in an unmindful manner? Was the unmindful person thinking at all, much less thinking about your feelings?

And a common courtesy can be an act of intimacy, of violence and of manipulation too.

The ball is still in your court here.

Both are simply human interactions. Sex tends to be a more intense one, but it is still a human interaction. Trying to have sex with a woman you sexually desire to have consensual sex with you obviously doesnt diminisn anyones personhood.

If your mind is overwhelmed by desire to the point where you do not engage your prefrontal lobes, you are obviously not in any position to claim you are considering the other person's mind or feelings.

 

[NIX]

Signs? Sounds like catch 22.

You cant flirt unless the other one flirts first.

The problem is people can take offense at anything and they think it is someone else's responsibility because they decided it is.

Part of refinement is subtlty and sensitivity- and then also the ability to be tactfully direct and honest while at the same time making the other person feel safe and respected.

There is nothing at all refined about a cat call. It's crass and socially inappropriate. It also makes women WHO YOU DON'T KNOW AT ALL feel unsafe.

If you are tactful and tasteful and sensitive with someone and they go all haywire, you know in the future to stay out of their path. If you're smart. :yes:

 

[crossfire]

Signs? Sounds like catch 22.

You cant flirt unless the other one flirts first.

The problem is people can take offense at anything and they think it is someone else's responsibility because they decided it is.

Oh, I certainly reserve the right to take offense at being groped, and I WILL NOT budge on the stance that the groper is totally responsible for it. (How dare I get out of my car in the parking lot to walk to the door of the business that I have business to conduct at. I was OBVIOUSLY asking for it.)

 

[Me Myself]

Feeding is a common courtesy? Since when?

I dont know if "common" but courtessy, I would say to the very least since Jesus.

Alright, let me address them again:

You were the one trying to equate sex with a taxi ride, or as taking something off a tall shelf for someone, and I was pointing out that mistaking someone for a taxi driver just because you want them to be one is ignoring the personhood of that person.

.... No, its obviously not.

Looking at someone inside a yellow car and believing he is a taxi driver is not against the persons personhood o.o. Likewise, asking someone if they can give you a ride because you can see they have a car and know how to drive it and there is the chance they could give you a ride is obviously alsoot against anyone's personhood o.o .

Actions resulting from desires without engaging prefrontal lobes can lead to bad results. Can we agree on that?

I think you missed this :

Sure. IF you dont, you PROBABLY will miss something important. We agree on that.

I never debated that. I debated blanket assumptions. That on the other hand is much different

^ it was one of the reasons I asked if we agreed.

 

[crossfire]

Part of refinement is subtlty and sensitivity- and then also the ability to be tactfully direct and honest while at the same time making the other person feel safe and respected.

There is nothing at all refined about a cat call. It's crass and socially inappropriate. It also makes women WHO YOU DON'T KNOW AT ALL feel unsafe.

If you are tactful and tasteful and sensitive with someone and they go all haywire, you know in the future to stay out of their path. If you're smart. :yes:

**applause**

 

[Me Myself]

Part of refinement is subtlty and sensitivity- and then also the ability to be tactfully direct and honest while at the same time making the other person feel safe and respected.

There is nothing at all refined about a cat call. It's crass and socially inappropriate. It also makes women WHO YOU DON'T KNOW AT ALL feel unsafe.

If you are tactful and tasteful and sensitive with someone and they go all haywire, you know in the future to stay out of their path. If you're smart. :yes:

Making the other person feel safe and respected is a half way thing. One can be direct AND respectful, but this does not mean one has control over whether the other person will feel respected or not.

About cat calls i dont konw nor was talking about them. i merely said that desiring sex with a woman you dont know is normal and there is noing wrong withh that. Thats all I ve said.

Oh, I certainly reserve the right to take offense at being groped, and I WILL NOT budge on the stance that the groper is totally responsible for it. (How dare I get out of my car in the parking lot to walk to the door of the business that I have business to conduct at. I was OBVIOUSLY asking for it.)

You have the right to feel offended about WATHEVER you want.

That said, a stranger coming to you out of the blue to grab you in a sexual way is pretty much asking for a sexual assault lawsuit. And is obviously being a *******

I have not talked about actions in this thread. i merely said one can have sexual desires for a person one doesnt know based othe persons body, and that in itself does not diminish the person at all.

Actions taken that are founded othose feelings specially if they are not copped with alertness and sensitivity to the person you are enaging are a completely different thing.

One can very well have desire for a stranger and approach said stranger in a reasonable matter, without sexual assault as you just described, to try to engage on a consensual sexual activity.

It happens everyday.

 

[crossfire]

I dont know if "common" but courtessy, I would say to the very least since Jesus.

So if a random person invites themself over for lunch, it is a common courtesy to feed them? :areyoucra

Looking at someone inside a yellow car and believing he is a taxi driver is not against the persons personhood o.o. Likewise, asking someone if they can give you a ride because you can see they have a car and know how to drive it and there is the chance they could give you a ride is obviously alsoot against anyone's personhood o.o .

Ahh, so here's the part where modest dress comes in: is it to signal to that you are not a yellow cab? Let me tell you something: it doesn't work. Delusional people wishing you were a taxi cab will treat as one no matter how you look.

I think you missed this :

Originally Posted by Me Myself
Sure. IF you dont, you PROBABLY will miss something important. We agree on that.

I never debated that. I debated blanket assumptions. That on the other hand is much different

Is not your taxi analogy a blanket assumption? How about your equating sex with common courtesy?

^ it was one of the reasons I asked if we agreed.

I still don't agree with your false analogies.

 

[crossfire]

Making the other person feel safe and respected is a half way thing. One can be direct AND respectful, but this does not mean one has control over whether the other person will feel respected or not.

About cat calls i dont konw nor was talking about them. i merely said that desiring sex with a woman you dont know is normal and there is noing wrong withh that. Thats all I ve said.




You have the right to feel offended about WATHEVER you want.

That said, a stranger coming to you out of the blue to grab you in a sexual way is pretty much asking for a sexual assault lawsuit. And is obviously being a *******

I have not talked about actions in this thread. i merely said one can have sexual desires for a person one doesnt know based othe persons body, and that in itself does not diminish the person at all.

Actions taken that are founded othose feelings specially if they are not copped with alertness and sensitivity to the person you are enaging are a completely different thing.

One can very well have desire for a stranger and approach said stranger in a reasonable matter, without sexual assault as you just described, to try to engage on a consensual sexual activity.

It happens everyday.

Indeed, I would be approached when I was out with my husband, and more often than not, they wouldn't understand when I told them I was married and that this was my husband, even after repeating it several times. (while my husband stands there laughing)

 

[NIX]

Making the other person feel safe and respected is a half way thing. One can be direct AND respectful, but this does not mean one has control over whether the other person will feel respected or not.

About cat calls i dont konw nor was talking about them. i merely said that desiring sex with a woman you dont know is normal and there is noing wrong withh that. Thats all I ve said.

Some guys consider cat calls acceptable flirting. Wasn't pointing at you directly.

Of course desiring sex with a woman or man you don't know is normal.
But that doesn't mean you should approach everyone you find sexually attractive.
You have to read situations, and proceed with care and caution.

 

[Me Myself]

So if a random person invites themself over for lunch, it is a common courtesy to feed them? :areyoucra

What? :areyoucra

You seem to be too confused with this one so we better drop it.




QUOTE=crossfire;3280108]

Ahh, so here's the part where modest dress comes in: is it to signal to that you are not a yellow cab? Let me tell you something: it doesn't work. Delusional people wishing you were a taxi cab will treat as one no matter how you look. [/QUOTE]

:areyoucra

I dont make such judgements on people by how they are dressed. :areyoucra

There is no need for delusion to ask someone if they can give you a lift. I ve done it and recieved e lift. To people I barely know. I just saw thein the same class as me and heard they were going to the same general direction. Asked them if they could give me a lift and they could.

On other ocassions I had no idea where they were going, I asked one on one until I hit one that could givee a lift. No one seemed to feel diminished :areyoucra

 

[NIX]

Indeed, I would be approached when I was out with my husband, and more often than not, they wouldn't understand when I told them I was married and that this was my husband, even after repeating it several times. (while my husband stands there laughing)

You must be a real cutie. :hearts: Are you sure you don't go both ways? :flirt:



That's called joking around (with just a dash of flirtation thrown in). Couldn't resist.

 

[Me Myself]

Indeed, I would be approached when I was out with my husband, and more often than not, they wouldn't understand when I told them I was married and that this was my husband, even after repeating it several times. (while my husband stands there laughing)

Naturally and obviously wrong.

I am not sure why this is brought up though.

Do we agree or not that a person can sexually desire another person s/he looks at the street and be diminishing no one?

If you see a man in the street and he looks sexy, are you diminishing him?

The only thing I am arguing is that such is no diminishing. Thats it. I have no idea why the gropping even came to this discussion.

 

[crossfire]

Naturally and obviously wrong.

I am not sure why this is brought up though.

Do we agree or not that a person can sexually desire another person s/he looks at the street and be diminishing no one?

Alright, as a young teenager, when my father send me out to weed the front garden, the guys acrossed the street would then set up their lawn chairs in their front yard, and sit in them drinking beer while watching me do my gardening. The only good thing about it was that they would chastise the guys in passing cars making cat calls at me when I ran inside. (The other neighbors would often call complaining about all the cat calls while I was out gardening, so my father told me to go inside if I started getting cat calls.)

How is this NOT diminishing a young teen-aged girl?

If you see a man in the street and he looks sexy, are you diminishing him?

Can't say. It doesn't happen.

The only thing I am arguing is that such is no diminishing. Thats it. I have no idea why the gropping even came to this discussion.

Because it is a sign that a person's mind is overwhelmed by desire and they are not considering the object of their desire as a feeling person.