What to you constitutes "modest" dress?

[Me Myself]

i read an intersting news article today about a tunisian woman who took her clothes off and wrote on her body '“my body belongs to me, and is not the source of the honor of anyone”

i was thinking about that statement and believe she is 100% right. There is no problem with a womans body...but with the way men look at and think about womens bodies. So the problem is not with women, but with men...men who look with perverted eyes.

You could cover every women in the world from head to toe, and the problem would persist because the problem is not with women at all... it is with men. And its time men took responsibility for themselves and admit that the fault is with them...stop making women responsible for something that essentially begins with your own twisted mind.

Eve was created in a naked state.... it was only when the man sinned (fell away from Gods goodness) that he looked at his wife differently...so to look or think of a women in a perverted way is actually to carry on a sin.

btw, if anyone is interested in this girl, her name is Amina

Yes, all men want sex, no women have ever sexually desired a male body ever.

Neither have they ever dressed for the specific purpose of awakening sexual desire.

And of course, sexual desire is such a perversion and a problem and is very evil indeed. [/nonsense]

 

[crossfire]

You equaled thinking you are sexy and wanting sex with you without knowing you to not recognising you as a"full human being"

Reality is a lot of full human beings are oerfectly okay with casual sex with strangers. If you are not thats cool, but pretending the equivalence above is silly.

Hey, I agree with Horroble. My observations from being groped and constantly being hit on is that the men doing this are not thinking with their frontal lobes.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes, all men want sex, no women have ever sexually desired a male body ever.

Neither have they ever dressed for the specific purpose of awakening sexual desire.

And of course, sexual desire is such a perversion and a problem and is very evil indeed. [/nonsense]

You COMPLETELY missed her point.

 

[Me Myself]

Hey, I agree with Horroble. My observations from being groped and constantly being hit on is that the men doing this are not thinking with their frontal lobes.

I am not sure what you mean.

You are saying that if a person wants to have sex with someone they barely met based almost exclusively on looks then this person is pretending the other person is not a full human being?

We rarely need other pele's "fullness" . We dont expect a taxi driver's fullness when he takes us to where we want to go. We just expect him to do just that. Sometimes one enjoys a good conversation too, okay, but mostly we pick a taxi to arrive at some other place and our main concern for the taxi driver is that s/he deliver us there for a fair price.

That of course doesnt mean we wish harm to the taxi driver, nor that we believe he is not a "full human" . Its just that we are more liekly to pick either the first taxi to come by or the nicest looking one. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Me Myself]

You COMPLETELY missed her point.

How? You believe she doesnt think there is something inherently wrong with looking at a woman that isot your wife with sexual desire?

Yes she said a bit more than that, but the other part I had nothing to say about. Yes, emotions evoked are in the person who evokes them, not inherently on what s/he is looking at.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

How? You believe she doesnt think there is something inherently wrong with looking at a woman that isot your wife with sexual desire?

That is nowhere near to what she said.

Yes she said a bit more than that, but the other part I had nothing to say about. Yes, emotions evoked are in the person who evokes them, not inherently on what s/he is looking at.

Read it again, I'll bold what's relevant.

i read an intersting news article today about a tunisian woman who took her clothes off and wrote on her body '“my body belongs to me, and is not the source of the honor of anyone”

i was thinking about that statement and believe she is 100% right. There is no problem with a womans body...but with the way men look at and think about womens bodies. So the problem is not with women, but with men...men who look with perverted eyes.

You could cover every women in the world from head to toe, and the problem would persist because the problem is not with women at all... it is with men. And its time men took responsibility for themselves and admit that the fault is with them...stop making women responsible for something that essentially begins with your own twisted mind.

Eve was created in a naked state.... it was only when the man sinned (fell away from Gods goodness) that he looked at his wife differently...so to look or think of a women in a perverted way is actually to carry on a sin.

btw, if anyone is interested in this girl, her name is Amina

She nowhere said all men look at women this way. It is when whoever objectifies women to the point where all a woman is to them is a walking pair of breasts and a piece of ***, THAT is what is wrong. To see women IN GENERAL as much more than a body, but with dreams and desires of their own.

She also made it a point that IT DOESN'T MATTER how covered up a woman is, if anybody were to reduce a woman regardless of her clothing down to that pair of breasts and a piece of ***, it's wrong....and the problem becomes worse when society expects the WOMAN to do something about a problem that she has no hand in.

Point being: IF a man were to look at a woman as nothing more than a body, then HE is the one who is wrong. That is, IF a man looks at a woman in that way.

 

[Me Myself]

That is nowhere near to what she said.



Read it again, I'll bold what's relevant.



She nowhere said all men look at women this way. It is when whoever objectifies women to the point where all a woman is to them is a walking pair of breasts and a piece of ***, THAT is what is wrong. To see women IN GENERAL as much more than a body, but with dreams and desires of their own.

She also made it a point that IT DOESN'T MATTER how covered up a woman is, if anybody were to reduce a woman regardless of her clothing down to that pair of breasts and a piece of ***, it's wrong....and the problem becomes worse when society expects the WOMAN to do something about a problem that she has no hand in.

Point being: IF a man were to look at a woman as nothing more than a body, then HE is the one who is wrong. That is, IF a man looks at a woman in that way.

She never used the word "if" and her definition of perversion seems to be sexual desire. From what. i read in that post

 

[Me Myself]

Oh and I also found it curious she just talked about male gaze when the OP was unisex.

 

[crossfire]

I am not sure what you mean.

You are saying that if a person wants to have sex with someone they barely met based almost exclusively on looks then this person is pretending the other person is not a full human being?

Well, yeah. I had to start dealing with this before I even started menstruating. If the guys lusting after and hassling someone can't even bother to notice how young their target is, they are not considering all of the aspects of that person, no?

We rarely need other pele's "fullness" . We dont expect a taxi driver's fullness when he takes us to where we want to go. We just expect him to do just that. Sometimes one enjoys a good conversation too, okay, but mostly we pick a taxi to arrive at some other place and our main concern for the taxi driver is that s/he deliver us there for a fair price.

That of course doesnt mean we wish harm to the taxi driver, nor that we believe he is not a "full human" . Its just that we are more liekly to pick either the first taxi to come by or the nicest looking one. Nothing wrong with that.

Well it's one thing recognizing a taxi driver as a taxi driver. It's another thing entirely to assume a non-taxi driver is a taxi driver just because you desire them to be one.

 

[Me Myself]

Well, yeah. I had to start dealing with this before I even started menstruating. If the guys lusting after and hassling someone can't even bother to notice how young their target is, they are not considering all of the aspects of that person, no?.

Must people dont have their age tattooed in their forehead o.o

About hassling, I am not talking about hassling. I am talking about someone wanting sex with another someone based on looks.

Again, no one considers all the aspects of the person for every interaction they want to have with a relative stranger.

Well it's one thing recognizing a taxi driver as a taxi driver. It's another thing entirely to assume a non-taxi driver is a taxi driver just because you desire them to be one.

But the correct analogy for at would be to ask a stranger if s/he is going near x place and if s/he can give y a lift. Do you find asking for such a favor to a stranger to diminish the stranger's humanhood in some way?

 

[Pegg]

The first thing what man want in the Quran is women:

"Beautified for men is the love of things they covet; women, children, much of gold and silver (wealth), branded beautiful horses, cattle and well-tilled land. This is the pleasure of the present world's life; but Allah has the excellent return (Paradise) with Him” (Surah Aal ‘Imran, 14)

Can a man not be content with the beauty of just one wife?

coveting anything is a sin according to the Torah, so should women be coveted?

 

[crossfire]

Must people dont have their age tattooed in their forehead o.o

About hassling, I am not talking about hassling. I am talking about someone wanting sex with another someone based on looks.

Looks alone does not a person make. (Blinding flash of the obvious)

Again, no one considers all the aspects of the person for every interaction they want to have with a relative stranger.

So you are admitting that often the only aspect being considered is sex? She's just a piece of meat.

But the correct analogy for at would be to ask a stranger if s/he is going near x place and if s/he can give y a lift. Do you find asking for such a favor to a stranger to diminish the stranger's humanhood in some way?

LOL! More often then not, it is obvious that is not what the stranger is after. Your guise is wearing thin.

 

[Pegg]

How? You believe she doesnt think there is something inherently wrong with looking at a woman that isot your wife with sexual desire?

Ummmm well heck yeah!!


If you were my husband and you were looking at anyone else with sexual desire I would not be your wife for very much longer :run:

 

[Me Myself]

Looks alone does not a person make. (Blinding flash of the obvious)

Of course it doesnt! Nor a bad looking taxi alone makes the whole experience of a trip. So?

One chooses a taxi ased on what one can see. This doesnt mean rhey only want a car, they need a person inside that is willing to take them somewhere else. Yet they choose by the car looks because they have the immidiate desire to pick a cab.

So you are admitting that often the only aspect being considered is sex? She's just a piece of meat.

Weird fetishes aside, no man wants to have sex with a piece of meat.

Now sure, this is the supposition in is case. Just like when you want a taxi the only aspect you care about is that the guy/gal can take you home safely and for a fair price. Are you then diminishing the taxi drivers humanhood in some way? Of course not.

When you give your keys to a vale parking, you dont need the guy to be your soulmate, just that he parks your car safely. Are you then diminishing his humanhood?

If you want to reach something higher than you ia market and you ask someone taller to please pass it to you, are you diminishing all aspects of her/him except her/his height? Of course not

Then why do you pretend that with sex it is diferent?

LOL! More often then not, it is obvious that is not what the stranger is after. Your guise is wearing thin.

I am not following at all what you mean.

You think that asking a stranger for a lift means undermining him as a human being because your main concern is about her/his cpacity to drive you where you need at that moment?

 

[Me Myself]

Ummmm well heck yeah!!


If you were my husband and you were looking at anyone else with sexual desire I would not be your wife for very much longer :run:

Oh no worries, may youhave a blessed marital life, but I am not really interested o marrying a jehova's witness,or I think a jehova's witness would be interested in marrying me.

It would be incredibly problematic! XD

In any case, I did meant that whether one has or has not a wife/husband.

 

[Pegg]

In any case, I did meant that whether one has or has not a wife/husband.

yes, i got that part


you dont find it a problem?

 

[Me Myself]

yes, i got that part


you dont find it a problem?

It depends. Each couples have their preferences. Even sexually inclusive couples exist.

Prsonally I prefer sexually exclusive romantic relationships, but almost all women will look other people, and almost all men will look other people. This in itself I dont find wrong, but I would find wrong is that a gf of mine flirted with a guy when she is my gf. The same way I would see reasonable a complain of her if she saw me doing just that.

She may look at porn if she likes, but I wouldnt be comfortable with her ging to a strip club for example, because that is a two way interaction. Likewise, I dont desire any sort of bachelor party before getting married, nor would I go to a strip club if she is not comfortable with me doing so (not that I have ever gone or taken great interest on goging)

In general I believe the coule has to talk and they should agree what is permisible. But do know, must men will dream with owr women, and most women will dream with other men. If not when awake, then asleep, but they will.

If y claim to be a weird exception, I wont say you are not, but I do will say that it has been tested that most of the women who say are not aroused by male displays of sexuality are indeed aroused. This has been evidenced in various studies.

Its just plain normal.

 

[crossfire]

Of course it doesnt! Nor a bad looking taxi alone makes the whole experience of a trip. So?

One chooses a taxi ased on what one can see. This doesnt mean rhey only want a car, they need a person inside that is willing to take them somewhere else. Yet they choose by the car looks because they have the immidiate desire to pick a cab.

When you mistake a private car for a taxi, you are obviously not considering much. (Delusion comes to mind.)

Weird fetishes aside, no man wants to have sex with a piece of meat.

Now sure, this is the supposition in is case. Just like when you want a taxi the only aspect you care about is that the guy/gal can take you home safely and for a fair price. Are you then diminishing the taxi drivers humanhood in some way? Of course not.

Your analogy falls apart when the person mistakes a non-taxi as a taxi. This is called delusion.

When you give your keys to a vale parking, you dont need the guy to be your soulmate, just that he parks your car safely. Are you then diminishing his humanhood?

What happens when you give your keys to someone who is not a valet parking attendant, expecting them to park your car?

If you want to reach something higher than you ia market and you ask someone taller to please pass it to you, are you diminishing all aspects of her/him except her/his height? Of course not

Then why do you pretend that with sex it is diferent?

False analogy. Sex is not something that is considered to be a basic human courtesy.

I am not following at all what you mean.

You think that asking a stranger for a lift means undermining him as a human being because your main concern is about her/his cpacity to drive you where you need at that moment?

Again, false analogy. Sex is not a common human courtesy.

 

[Me Myself]

When you mistake a private car for a taxi, you are obviously not considering much. (Delusion comes to mind.)


Your analogy falls apart when the person mistakes a non-taxi as a taxi. This is called delusion.


What happens when you give your keys to someone who is not a valet parking attendant, expecting them to park your car?


False analogy. Sex is not something that is considered to be a basic human courtesy.




Again, false analogy. Sex is not a common human courtesy.

Are you under the strange belief no one has ever carried someone else to their homes without being a taxi? Cause ñi can tell you by personal experience you are wrong.

I have approached relative strangers that I know are going near the area I am and asked them if they could give me a lift and they could and they did. Are you under the strange impresion I was considering them less human because of that?

And about sex and common courtesy, "common" is different depending on context. It is common to flirt with a girl in a nightclub based on her appeareance. This is something both can enjoy.

Now even beyond then, simply looking a sexy woman passing by and having sexual desire towards her in no way deminishes her personhood. Saying such a thing is ridiculous.

But to put it even more obvious for you: why is a courtesy any different?

Do you dehumanize every person you ask a common courtesy to if you dont throughly know them? If not, then how is it different with sex?

 

[crossfire]

Are you under the strange belief no one has ever carried someone else to their homes without being a taxi? Cause ñi can tell you by personal experience you are wrong.

I have approached relative strangers that I know are going near the area I am and asked them if they could give me a lift and they could and they did. Are you under the strange impresion I was considering them less human because of that?

And about sex and common courtesy, "common" is different depending on context. It is common to flirt with a girl in a nightclub based on her appeareance. This is something both can enjoy.

Now even beyond then, simply looking a sexy woman passing by and having sexual desire towards her in no way deminishes her personhood. Saying such a thing is ridiculous.

Did I say such a thing? No. Acting on the desire without engaging your prefrontal lobes first often does diminish the other person's personhood.

But to put it even more obvious for you: why is a courtesy any different?

If you can't differentiate between sex and a common human courtesy, I truly feel sorry for you. (Hint--acts of common human courtesy don't have laws in place to protect people from being victimized.)

Do you dehumanize every person you ask a common courtesy to if you dont throughly know them? If not, then how is it different with sex?

Methinks you have confusion over the status of sex. Sex is NOT a common human courtesy. It can be an act of intimacy, or an act of violence, or an act of manipulation, etc.