What was Jewish about Jesus?

[sooda]

Yes. But do you read Jewish sources?

Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

Stop and THINK.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

 

[sooda]

Dude, read more carefully.

Jesus quotes Jewish sceipture regularly. Offhand:
-During his three temptations in the wilderness.
-"The stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone"
-"Whose image and inscription is on the coin? " is a reference both to not having a graven image and the Shema Yisrael command to inscribe the name of God on the door, basically drawing to attention that Caesar's coins are an idol.

He also attends Sukkhot and Passover and all these festivals. It says "as was his custom." He is an observant Jew. He routinely debated law with the Pharisees. This is exactly why they hated him. All of the rest of the Jews were obedient to the law, Jesus obviously loved the Jewish customs and culture but knew that there was something wrong with it back then.

To put it in perspective, Jesus was as much a Jew as Martin Luther was a Catholic. If you recall the story of Martin Luther, night after night he dreamed he was going to hell. He watched Israel and Rome and the sorry state these were in, until finally he read the passages about how works doesn't save one, but rather grace.

Jesus came to reform Judaism, and to try to get the Sabbath laws away from a manadate about how many lb you carry and towards an idea that Sabbath was a gift. When he did, he ran into the fact that the Jews of his day were probably alot different from today's Jews. Basically, he was teaching stuff and they'd come and bother him, asking on whose authority he acted, or heckle him, or outright try to find a way for him to be arrested. Today's Jews aren't really like these Pharisees, but other groups in power are.

In Jesus time the Jews were very fractured and fighting each other.. plus, Judah hated Israel and any "Hellenized" Jews.

 

[sooda]

Yes. But do you read Jewish sources?

Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus

They don't believe he was the MESSIAH.. Big difference.

 

[sooda]

He spoke of a Roman centurion as having more faith
than He had seen in all of Judea

not very Jewish

The Judeans despised the people who lived in the north (Israel) in part because they were more prosperous.. They also hated then because they claimed they were Hellenized or half breed Samaritans *aka fake Jews.

 

[sooda]

He would not speak against Rome

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's....

not very Jewish

They were trying to trick Jesus over the head of Caesar engraved on the coin.

 

[sooda]

He spoke of God.....as His Father

NOT very Jewish

In the Old Testament, angels, just and pious men, and the kings of Israel are all called " sons of God."

 

[whirlingmerc]

Stop and THINK.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

Of course in the Biblical record the Jews were wrong about Joseph and sold him into slavery not realizing he was 'the (little m) messiah'

Also, the Jews were wrong about Moses saying 'who made you a judge' not realizing he was 'the (little m) messiah'

so why is that wrong conclusion surprising?

As it says in Isaiah 6 their eyes and ears have become dull and there is a blindness
not unlike Joseph's brothers who thought he was irrelevant
yet he was 'savior of both Jews and gentiles' in his day

surprise surprise

 

[dfnj]

Jesus didn't act like a Jew , he didn't know many Jewish customs from what I understand.

He was called a rabbi, but comes across overwhelmingly under-qualified to even be one.

One could argue Jewish by birth on the matriarch side, but that's about it.

The question is , what makes Jesus Jewish least of all to be called King of the Jews?

Oy vey.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus didn't act like a Jew , he didn't know many Jewish customs from what I understand.

He was called a rabbi, but comes across overwhelmingly under-qualified to even be one.

One could argue Jewish by birth on the matriarch side, but that's about it.

The question is , what makes Jesus Jewish least of all to be called King of the Jews?

This post will assume its readers accept the stories of the gospels as fact (even though I think that many of them aren't).

First of all, Jesus was a JEW. He was born of a Jewish mother, making him one of the Children of Israel. That means he would have been bound by the covenant between God and Israel, all 613 commandments.

Second, he was raised as a Jew. His parents took him to the temple for the offering of the first born, and to Jerusalem for his bar mitzvah. It stands to reason that they raised him in Judaism just as they would have any child.

He was called up to read and teach from Isaiah at the synagogue. He would have had to have been literate and learned in Judaism with a good reputation for that to have happened, although obviously he had esoteric opinions.

He was called Rabbi, which (even if it was unofficial) indicates he had a very high degree of learning in both written Law and Oral Law. After all, the primary job of a Rabbi is to teach and rule on matters of Law.

He observed Jewish Holy Days such as Chanukah (Feast of the Dedication) and Passover.

He kept the Shabbat, although he participated in the arguments of his day about how best to keep it.

He washed his hands before meals, showing that he observed a certain rendition of the Oral Torah. (It was only "some of his disciples" which did not. Furthermore, this tradition was not yet set.)

In the sermon on the mount, he replied to the rich man that to gain eternal life, one must keep the commandments.

In Matthew 23:1-3 He tells his followers to do and observe everything the Pharisees teach (that would include Oral Torah as well as Written Torah).

In Matthew 23:23 He tells the Pharisees to observe the basics of the Written Law first, and then to observe Oral Law as well.


That's just tooooooo many things lined up for him being an ordinary Jew. His teachings line up with the school of Hillel, which Jews reading the gospels can see. (See Harvey Falk, "Jesus the Pharisee."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Of course in the Biblical record the Jews were wrong about Joseph and sold him into slavery not realizing he was 'the (little m) messiah'

The "Jews?" There was only Jacob, his wives, and the eleven other sons, and it was only the eleven sons that did wrong by Joseph. And you want to go blaming "The Jews?"

What makes you think Joseph is a messiah? He was not anointed by a prophet.

 

[rosends]

The "Jews?" There was only Jacob, his wives, and the eleven other sons, and it was only the eleven sons that did wrong by Joseph. And you want to go blaming "The Jews?"

What makes you think Joseph is a messiah? He was not anointed by a prophet.

More likely 9 sons.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

More likely 9 sons.

oops! thans for the correction!

 

[Thief]

This post will assume its readers accept the stories of the gospels as fact (even though I think that many of them aren't).

First of all, Jesus was a JEW. He was born of a Jewish mother, making him one of the Children of Israel. That means he would have been bound by the covenant between God and Israel, all 613 commandments.

Second, he was raised as a Jew. His parents took him to the temple for the offering of the first born, and to Jerusalem for his bar mitzvah. It stands to reason that they raised him in Judaism just as they would have any child.

He was called up to read and teach from Isaiah at the synagogue. He would have had to have been literate and learned in Judaism with a good reputation for that to have happened, although obviously he had esoteric opinions.

He was called Rabbi, which (even if it was unofficial) indicates he had a very high degree of learning in both written Law and Oral Law. After all, the primary job of a Rabbi is to teach and rule on matters of Law.

He observed Jewish Holy Days such as Chanukah (Feast of the Dedication) and Passover.

He kept the Shabbat, although he participated in the arguments of his day about how best to keep it.

He washed his hands before meals, showing that he observed a certain rendition of the Oral Torah. (It was only "some of his disciples" which did not. Furthermore, this tradition was not yet set.)

In the sermon on the mount, he replied to the rich man that to gain eternal life, one must keep the commandments.

In Matthew 23:1-3 He tells his followers to do and observe everything the Pharisees teach (that would include Oral Torah as well as Written Torah).

In Matthew 23:23 He tells the Pharisees to observe the basics of the Written Law first, and then to observe Oral Law as well.


That's just tooooooo many things lined up for him being an ordinary Jew. His teachings line up with the school of Hillel, which Jews reading the gospels can see. (See Harvey Falk, "Jesus the Pharisee."

and when questioned.....He did say
Love God
as the first and most important law

and then ….Do into others as you would have them do unto you
as the next item of importance

but....that second item was not of Moses?
was it not?...heathen law

and the Pharisees sought to have Him dead from that hour onward

for having not quoted Moses......first

 

[rosends]

and when questioned.....He did say
Love God
as the first and most important law

and then ….Do into others as you would have them do unto you
as the next item of importance

but....that second item was not of Moses?
was it not?...heathen law

and the Pharisees sought to have Him dead from that hour onward

for having not quoted Moses......first

I'm confused. The first law, love god, is in the torah, so it is quoting Moses. And the second is from the talmud (Masechet Shabbat, 31a), not heathen. So what's the problem?

 

[Thief]

I'm confused. The first law, love god, is in the torah, so it is quoting Moses. And the second is from the talmud (Masechet Shabbat, 31a), not heathen. So what's the problem?

oh!.....really?

well hey....maybe that archeologist got it wrong

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you
was found carved into a stone
dated a thousand years before the Carpenter
but not credited to Moses

maybe I should pop a thread on this?

 

[whirlingmerc]

The "Jews?" There was only Jacob, his wives, and the eleven other sons, and it was only the eleven sons that did wrong by Joseph. And you want to go blaming "The Jews?"

What makes you think Joseph is a messiah? He was not anointed by a prophet.

Joseph was a type pointing to the Messiah, experience a type of death and resurrection and then saving first mainly gentiles then his Jewish brethren. Like Jesus.

Job was a type of the suffering servant of God who in the deepest time of his suffering made intersession for sinners and then God raised him up. Like Jesus.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Joseph was a type pointing to the Messiah, experience a type of death and resurrection and then saving first mainly gentiles then his Jewish brethren. Like Jesus.

Job was a type of the suffering servant of God who in the deepest time of his suffering made intersession for sinners and then God raised him up. Like Jesus.

Everything is about Jesus, huh? Creative fiction can render anything you want.

 

[MikeDwight]

This post will assume its readers accept the stories of the gospels as fact (even though I think that many of them aren't).

First of all, Jesus was a JEW. He was born of a Jewish mother, making him one of the Children of Israel. That means he would have been bound by the covenant between God and Israel, all 613 commandments.

Second, he was raised as a Jew. His parents took him to the temple for the offering of the first born, and to Jerusalem for his bar mitzvah. It stands to reason that they raised him in Judaism just as they would have any child.

He was called up to read and teach from Isaiah at the synagogue. He would have had to have been literate and learned in Judaism with a good reputation for that to have happened, although obviously he had esoteric opinions.

He was called Rabbi, which (even if it was unofficial) indicates he had a very high degree of learning in both written Law and Oral Law. After all, the primary job of a Rabbi is to teach and rule on matters of Law.

He observed Jewish Holy Days such as Chanukah (Feast of the Dedication) and Passover.

He kept the Shabbat, although he participated in the arguments of his day about how best to keep it.

He washed his hands before meals, showing that he observed a certain rendition of the Oral Torah. (It was only "some of his disciples" which did not. Furthermore, this tradition was not yet set.)

In the sermon on the mount, he replied to the rich man that to gain eternal life, one must keep the commandments.

In Matthew 23:1-3 He tells his followers to do and observe everything the Pharisees teach (that would include Oral Torah as well as Written Torah).

In Matthew 23:23 He tells the Pharisees to observe the basics of the Written Law first, and then to observe Oral Law as well.


That's just tooooooo many things lined up for him being an ordinary Jew. His teachings line up with the school of Hillel, which Jews reading the gospels can see. (See Harvey Falk, "Jesus the Pharisee."

I totally appreciate this one. My posts here for example look like I had ADHD. However, I remember what I was getting at, since the faith believes Joseph is in no way a genetic father of the child, and that God is the father of the child, thus, for believers, the Virgin Mary and the Virgin Birth, and how this links up with the Hellenized Jew who talked about their "hades" tradition as a metaphor, how it links up with the story of Mount Olympus versus the Hades, and that Zeus the chief of the Greek Gods had a half-son by a human mother. Plus, that makes the nature of Christ unconfusably Divine and Human like the Chalcedonic Creed, don't you think?

 

[sooda]

The "Jews?" There was only Jacob, his wives, and the eleven other sons, and it was only the eleven sons that did wrong by Joseph. And you want to go blaming "The Jews?"

What makes you think Joseph is a messiah? He was not anointed by a prophet.

Joseph wasn't an anointed king either..Makes no sense to call him messiah.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Joseph wasn't an anointed king either..Makes no sense to call him messiah.

A type is a type

Melchizadek is a type of the Messiah.

You have mixed pictures of the Messiah in Psalms 22 23 24 with the cross, the crook and the crown

Who would have known that the worse curse of the death of the 1st born plague would come upon the Messiah to save the world? yet that was part of the gospel of God.