What was the Big Bang

[james blunt]

The Gods, looking down on our Universe, which to them is a box that they have not yet opened, still wonder, "Is there anyone alive in there or not?" Fearing to resolve this question in the negative they avoid measuring the state of said box.

Not, perhaps, being able to comprehend "what it is like" to observer our Universe from outside the necessity of its existence for our own, we may never truly be able to answer that question...nor speak with the living beings that theoretically may have such a perspective.

For those who do not open the box are still being looked down upon from above
Those who look down do not want to open the box of those who look down upon us
For those who look up observe
Beyond a finite space is either a finite or infinite boundary
Beyond a finite boundary is more space
For the wise understand infinite
The wise understand the firmament of the mind
The wise understand God is transparent

 

[`mud]

"The wise understand God is transparent"
~
You got that right !

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Let us look at it with simple logic. The prefix uni of universe means one. Let us stay with that so that when we talk of any conceptual aspect pertaining the the universe, we understand that we are merely talking about minority aspects of the one cosmos.

For example, if someone believes there is a multiverse, ie. more than one universe, it just means the many universes are minority aspects of the one cosmos.

If someone believes there is a God in addition to the universe, than God becomes merely a minority aspect of the one cosmos for by definition, we mean by the one cosmos all that exists.

The one cosmos is all that is, any and all discussion about it, whether based on religious or science beliefs and theories, etc., are discussing parts only, and does not negate the fact that there is only one cosmos.

Therefore If some say there are many cosmoses, then it is understood that the many conceived cosmoses become then the one cosmos. If some say God and the cosmos, then it is understood that God and the cosmos are the one cosmos.

Nothing can exist outside the one cosmos because by definition, numbers greater then one pertain to aspects of the one that is all.

 

[`mud]

Just a thought here, I try to almost capitalize the C in the word `cosmos`,
it's kinda like giving a little respect for the greatness that is represented !
Other than that.....really good blog !.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

christ, the Cosmo

Just a thought here, I try to almost capitalize the C in the word `cosmos`,
it's kinda like giving a little respect for the greatness that is represented !
Other than that.....really good blog !.

And a delightful thought it is, I am in full agreement. My use of the non-capitalized 'c' was used purposely to allow readers to see the obvious for themselves, no hints that some may interpret as being meant to convey some religious agenda.

 

[dfnj]

For those who do not open the box are still being looked down upon from above
Those who look down do not want to open the box of those who look down upon us
For those who look up observe
Beyond a finite space is either a finite or infinite boundary
Beyond a finite boundary is more space
For the wise understand infinite
The wise understand the firmament of the mind
The wise understand God is transparent

The wise understand all our words are BS and delusion. Words are abstractions of reality. Words are not the reality they represent. Words like "finite" and "infinite" do not occur in nature. They are products of man's imagination. Reality is always far more stranger than anything we could have ever imagined. Take string theory and quantum foam for example.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Just a thought here, I try to almost capitalize the C in the word `cosmos`,
it's kinda like giving a little respect for the greatness that is represented !
Other than that.....really good blog !.

Yeah, the same thing I do with Truth, which stands for everything, including God, whether a conscious God exists or not.

 

[metis]

Why should we assume there had to be a "beginning"?

According to Leonard Susskind, he says that most cosmologists are now leaning in the direction of there being "infinity" behind a multiverse, and they believe that q.m. and string theory make that option more likely.

 

[`mud]

And that same old question remains:
The Cosmos is told be expanding from it's present size ? I'm told.
What is it expanding into ?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hey Mud, the explanation is that we are on the 2D plane of a humungous cosmic balloon surface that is being blown up, by the big bang. We are told we can not ask about what is outside or inside the 2D surface for we can never go anywhere else but around the surface. Oh, but this cosmic 2D balloon surface is actually 3D for us, and is the universe our astronomers study. and if we travel in any direction, we will end up back where we started. Oh and because the area of the cosmic balloon surface increases in time due to the expansion, everything pertaining to the surface is moving away from each other, hence the doppler red shift of light noted. There!

 

[`mud]

Ohhhhhhh.........I see
But what is sucking us in, or up, or down, or sideways...
And I'm only five feet nine still, haven't grown an inch, expansion my gobo !

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ohhhhhhh.........I see
But what is sucking us in, or up, or down, or sideways...
And I'm only five feet nine still, haven't grown an inch, expansion my gobo !

Have you checked your waist measurement lately?

 

[`mud]

WE don't talk about that...

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why should we assume there had to be a "beginning"?

According to Leonard Susskind, he says that most cosmologists are now leaning in the direction of there being "infinity" behind a multiverse, and they believe that q.m. and string theory make that option more likely.

We don't assume it. The universe is expanding, and had to be expanding from a given point. And then there's the cosmic microwave background noise (CMB) which is the sound of the Big Bang all these 13.8 billion years later. What we don't know is what started it.

And that same old question remains:
The Cosmos is told be expanding from it's present size ? I'm told.
What is it expanding into ?

The answer to that question is in the first paragraph of the OP, "innto" being a nebulous term in this case BTW.

Hey Mud, the explanation is that we are on the 2D plane of a humungous cosmic balloon surface that is being blown up, by the big bang. We are told we can not ask about what is outside or inside the 2D surface for we can never go anywhere else but around the surface. Oh, but this cosmic 2D balloon surface is actually 3D for us, and is the universe our astronomers study. and if we travel in any direction, we will end up back where we started. Oh and because the area of the cosmic balloon surface increases in time due to the expansion, everything pertaining to the surface is moving away from each other, hence the doppler red shift of light noted. There!

There are in fact 3 dimensions, a better analogy is a loaf of raisin bread rising in the oven. And locally there is essentially no expansion, with there being even blueshift at times, like with the Andromeda Galaxy which is heading towards our Milky Way. Local galactic clusters are gravitationally bound.

Ohhhhhhh.........I see
But what is sucking us in, or up, or down, or sideways...
And I'm only five feet nine still, haven't grown an inch, expansion my gobo !

That's actually a good question. As space expands, it carries the matter and energy with it, which does not expand on a local scale, and the visible limit to the universe is caused by that expansion carrying light and matter through superluminal speeds--which does not violate Relativity's speed limit. It's better thought of as the universe is being carried by the expansion of the ether or Quantumland in which it is embedded...an ether which is non-local, that meaning it's timeless and distanceless.

If you really want to dig into this, RE: Ruth Kastner's book, Understanding Our Unseen Reality. The Transactional Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, TIQM, is finally coming into it's own, and it addresses ALL quantum weirdness, and she explains it better than anybody.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are in fact 3 dimensions, a better analogy is a loaf of raisin bread rising in the oven. And locally there is essentially no expansion, with there being even blueshift at times, like with the Andromeda Galaxy which is heading towards our Milky Way. Local galactic clusters are gravitationally bound.

But in this cosmically humungis raisin bread big bang analogy, there is an inside, and so any direction we travel through the raisin bread, we will eventually get to the edge and can't go any further. So what's on the other side of the raisin bread?

At least with the equally silly balloon analogy, it has us on a 2D expanding surface such that the really obvious question of what the universe is expanding into can be dodged by explaining that there is nothing else in existence except the balloon 2D surface, and so any direction we travel, we will end up where we started.

If you do not understand my point, please point out what it is you question.

 

[`mud]

I think I know what the Christians think,
and it starts with a `G`, or maybe a `J` !
One must try to use upper case letters !
~
All that there is, up, down, sideways, and into,
is more and more galaxies after galaxies forever and ever !
And lower case on any of it, except for the one and only, Cosmos !!!
Are there going to be people there ? Good luck, or prayers, with that.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Amen...

 

[metis]

We don't assume it. The universe is expanding, and had to be expanding from a given point. And then there's the cosmic microwave background noise (CMB) which is the sound of the Big Bang all these 13.8 billion years later. What we don't know is what started it.

Exactly, which is why we shouldn't be saying that there must be a theistic cause as well, as that would be premature projectation.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

But in this cosmically humungis raisin bread big bang analogy, there is an inside, and so any direction we travel through the raisin bread, we will eventually get to the edge and can't go any further. So what's on the other side of the raisin bread?

No analogy is perfect. It is always going to be difficult to explain a 4D space to people whose only experience is in a 3D world.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

But in this cosmically humungis raisin bread big bang analogy, there is an inside, and so any direction we travel through the raisin bread, we will eventually get to the edge and can't go any further. So what's on the other side of the raisin bread?

We don't know that there is an edge. The fabric of the universe (the ether or Quantumland) (apparently?) folds back on itself so that traveling in one direction eventually gets you back to where you started, in a 3D version of your 2D model. The universe, famously, is finite but unbounded. "Outside" the universe has no intuitive meaning any more than what happened "before" the Big Bang.

Exactly, which is why we shouldn't be saying that there must be a theistic cause as well, as that would be premature projectation.

We have no evidence for what happened "before" or for the equally unlikely initiations via God or an uncaused spontaneous event.