What will Christians and Muslims have to say

[my opinion]

When and if a gay gene is identified by geneticists. Will you abandon your stance that it is a choice, evil, abomination, unnatural?

 

[darkendless]

When and if a gay gene is identified by geneticists. Will you abandon your stance that it is a choice, evil, abomination, unnatural?

There is a rediculous amount of evidence for evolution and many Christians/Muslims completely reject that, primitive beliefs/fairytale superstitions die hard.

Maybe like in the case of evolution where some people accept the evidence and believe God started it all, they could find some reason for God to have created Gays?

 

[McBell]

Seems to me that Christians are against homosexuality because their deity says that it is an abomination.

Seems to me that it matters not what 'proof' there is that the homosexual has no choice in the matter, the Christian deity has spoken and for many Christians, that is that.

 

[gnomon]

There is already an argument by many religious believers admitting that homosexuality is natural. It's the homosexual acts or "lifestyle" that is sinful. Which when combined with marriage issues leads to some strange philosophies.

So I suspect that if scientific endeavors show the exact process by which genetic and hormonal development lead towards a proclivity of homosexuality it will not matter to them.

 

[iloveislam]

When and if a gay gene is identified by geneticists. Will you abandon your stance that it is a choice, evil, abomination, unnatural?

Firstly, you are asking a hypothetical question.

If it happens then we will discuss it.

Secondly, we know that people are not born homosexual but rather it is an impact the society and environment has upon a person.

Common sense will tell you that if someone hangs around with certain type of people then they are likely to become similar to those people, or at least adapt certain characteristics of those group of people.

For example, if one hangs around with drug addicts and accompanies them then that person is also likely to take drugs or even become an addict himself.

Let me ask you a counter-question.

If scientists find a gene for rape and prove to the world that there are some babies who are genetically born to become rapists. If those babies then grew up, became adults and then raped someone, would you then say that's fine, don't punish them since they had the genes anyway?

 

[darkendless]

Secondly, we know that people are not born homosexual but rather it is an impact the society and environment has upon a person.

Incorrect, i was born in a town of about 30,000 people. My cousin lived to the north in a town of about 600. He was a Gay as you can get and had never met a Gay person before. That kinda kills your little theory there. Its just the way some people are.

 

[gnomon]

How did homosexuality ever come about if people had to hang out with a homosexual to become one?

I already know the answer and it's what one would expect to hear.

 

[Katzpur]

When and if a gay gene is identified by geneticists. Will you abandon your stance that it is a choice, evil, abomination, unnatural?

I've never believed that being homosexual is a choice, any more than being heterosexual is a choice. That said, I do believe that sexual behavior and activity are choices. I don't believe sexual relations between two people of the same sex are right, but I don't believe sexual relations between two unmarried people of opposite sexes is right either. Most of all, I believe that people's sexual preferences, attraction and anything they choose to do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is none of my business.

 

[gnomon]

If scientists find a gene for rape and prove to the world that there are some babies who are genetically born to become rapists. If those babies then grew up, became adults and then raped someone, would you then say that's fine, don't punish them since they had the genes anyway?

There is already some level of belief that criminal behavior and certain mental pathologies are associated. However, they are not exempt from punishment.

Your counter argument is a non-sequitar.

A better question is if homosexuality is proved to be a natural phenomenon among human beings would Islam and Christianity, on a general level as evidenced by the majority of believers, continue to persecute them.

That's the only question worth considering in this thread.

 

[djs1112]

There is already some level of belief that criminal behavior and certain mental pathologies are associated. However, they are not exempt from punishment.

Your counter argument is a non-sequitar.

A better question is if homosexuality is proved to be a natural phenomenon among human beings would Islam and Christianity, on a general level as evidenced by the majority of believers, continue to persecute them.

That's the only question worth considering in this thread.

the answer is, of course they would... god told them its wrong and there is no reasoning them out of that

 

[McBell]

If scientists find a gene for rape and prove to the world that there are some babies who are genetically born to become rapists. If those babies then grew up, became adults and then raped someone, would you then say that's fine, don't punish them since they had the genes anyway?

Apples and chicken nuggets.

Rape is illegal because it violates another's rights.
Homosexuality does not violate another's rights.

 

[iloveislam]

Incorrect, i was born in a town of about 30,000 people. My cousin lived to the north in a town of about 600. He was a Gay as you can get and had never met a Gay person before. That kinda kills your little theory there. Its just the way some people are.

Although I do not take your story as a credible source of evidence since I have no information on your trustworthiness (no disrespect), I do think that such cases can exist.

I did not deny the possibility of such cases.

For example, in the Qur'an, the story of Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) and his two sons is mentioned. To cut the story short, killing did not exist at that time. However, satan whispered to one of Adam's son to kill the other. So he killed his brother and became the first person to kill another human being in the entire history.

The lesson that is learnt from such a story is that although evil actions may not exist in a society, but it is still possible for someone to commit a new kind of evil action.

Having said that, I do believe that if that someone hangs around in a society then they are more likely to develop the culture of that society.

 

[darkendless]

Although I do not take your story as a credible source of evidence since I have no information on your trustworthiness (no disrespect), I do think that such cases can exist.

I did not deny the possibility of such cases.

For example, in the Qur'an, the story of Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) and his two sons is mentioned. To cut the story short, killing did not exist at that time. However, satan whispered to one of Adam's son to kill the other. So he killed his brother and became the first person to kill another human being in the entire history.

The lesson that is learnt from such a story is that although evil actions may not exist in a society, but it is still possible for someone to commit a new kind of evil action.

Having said that, I do believe that if that someone hangs around in a society then they are more likely to develop the culture of that society.

Yeh exactly, my little cousin is just like me, just smaller and more militant about the things i do.

However, my point was that people can still develop these things on their own or are born like this. I doubt if you ask Gay members here whether they met people that were gay and just decided to try it that they would say yes.

Quite frankly, in our societies, you have to put up with a lot of garbage if you're gay because of the root of all evil and condemnation called religion. Without religion i don't think people would be afraid to be themselves.

 

[iloveislam]

There is already some level of belief that criminal behavior and certain mental pathologies are associated. However, they are not exempt from punishment.

This 'belief' is not proven scientifically.

Your counter argument is a non-sequitar.

It is hypothetical since it has not yet occured.

A better question is if homosexuality is proved to be a natural phenomenon among human beings would Islam and Christianity, on a general level as evidenced by the majority of believers, continue to persecute them.

Again, you are asking a hypothetical question.

Islam cannot change it's stance against homosexuality. The Law of God remains unchanged since Only He is the True Legislator. Compare this to man-made law, such as Democracy.

I mean a person could be considered a criminal if he/she has sex with the same gender below the age of 18 in UK. However, that same person would not be regarded as criminal in other countries such as Germany, for example. So according to man-made law you wouldn't know who's right and who's wrong.

 

[my opinion]

Incorrect, i was born in a town of about 30,000 people. My cousin lived to the north in a town of about 600. He was a Gay as you can get and had never met a Gay person before. That kinda kills your little theory there. Its just the way some people are.

Here!Here! I think his statement about hanging around gays makes you gay ridiculous and I really don't think I could take anything he says seriously.
You say finding the gene is hypothetical...but more accurate to say in progress.then go to say

we know that people are not born homosexual but rather it is an impact the society and environment has upon a person.

Firstly...who is we?? Secondly if it was society and the environment they wouldn't be looking for a gene would they?
Thirdly...your last statement also exonerates them because they have no control over society or the environment...
Don't think it a purely hypothetical...they have made quite some headway...looks like mothers all over the world will be getting the blame. Are you one of those who has these opinions in all matters that don't directly affect you or would you feel the same if it happened to your son or daughter?

 

[iloveislam]

Apples and chicken nuggets.

Rape is illegal because it violates another's rights.
Homosexuality does not violate another's rights.

So why is taking drugs illegal then?

I mean taking drugs does not violate another's right, does it?

Something made legal and illegal by man-made law does not neccesserily mean your are violating someone's right. The fact that drugs are illegal is because of the large negative impact it has on health.

Just over a decade ago, homosexuality was illegal in UK. Now it has been made legal.

Man-made laws keep changing because they have weaknesses in them.

 

[McBell]

So why is taking drugs illegal then?

I mean taking drugs does not violate another's right, does it?

Got me.
Though taking drugs and then driving can and often does violate another's rights.

Something made legal and illegal by man-made law does not neccesserily mean your are violating someone's right. The fact that drugs are illegal is because of the large negative impact it has on health.

Fair enough.
Now all you needs do is prove that homosexuality harms your health.

Just over a decade ago, homosexuality was illegal in UK. Now it has been made legal.

Yes, because there is not a single legitimate legal reason to ban homosexuality.

Man-made laws keep changing because they have weaknesses in them.

Man made laws keep changing because far to many of them are based upon nothing but religious dogma.

 

[gnomon]

This 'belief' is not proven scientifically.

It is hypothetical since it has not yet occured.

Again, you are asking a hypothetical question.

Islam cannot change it's stance against homosexuality. The Law of God remains unchanged since Only He is the True Legislator. Compare this to man-made law, such as Democracy.

I mean a person could be considered a criminal if he/she has sex with the same gender below the age of 18 in UK. However, that same person would not be regarded as criminal in other countries such as Germany, for example. So according to man-made law you wouldn't know who's right and who's wrong.

According to some God made laws one cannot receive a blood transfusion.

According to some God made laws once can receive a blood transfusion.

You believe in a specific God. Good for you. Most other human beings on this planet do not believe in your God. Considering a lack of any scientific evidence for the existence of any Gods............you all lose.

I can do this all night. Your response was a non-sequitur.

The question is not so hypothetical.

Homosexuality exists.

"God made" laws regarding homosexuality were created prior to scientific understanding of human sexuality.

Post-enlightenment philosophy, aka empirical science, has shown us that not only do human beings exhibit multiple sexual behaviors but also are not clearly sexually male or female. In other words, one God made law has been proven false.

So......not if but when the biological mechanics of human sexual development are better understood showing how homosexuality is a biological phenomenon will Islam and Christianity continue to, in a general manner, persecute homosexuals?

The question is really that simple.

 

[darkendless]

So why is taking drugs illegal then?

I mean taking drugs does not violate another's right, does it?

Something made legal and illegal by man-made law does not neccesserily mean your are violating someone's right. The fact that drugs are illegal is because of the large negative impact it has on health.

Just over a decade ago, homosexuality was illegal in UK. Now it has been made legal.

Man-made laws keep changing because they have weaknesses in them.

Because taking drugs is just as stupid as that statement. Drugs are illegal for obvious reasons, because medical staff dont want to deal with meth addicts all the time. Oh and people die from drugs (no sympathy).

Every law is man made. We made them to control and protect people. Luckily the religious laws (eg. homosexuality) are being weeded out because they're useless.

 

[gnomon]

So why is taking drugs illegal then?

I mean taking drugs does not violate another's right, does it?

Something made legal and illegal by man-made law does not neccesserily mean your are violating someone's right. The fact that drugs are illegal is because of the large negative impact it has on health.

Just over a decade ago, homosexuality was illegal in UK. Now it has been made legal.

Man-made laws keep changing because they have weaknesses in them.

This argument is meaningless.

Society is under no rule stating that just because someone commits an act based on natural, psychological conditions that they are exempt from law. In other words, we can lock up sociopaths and psychopaths no matter the cause. At most, we can consider it in determining sentencing.

In other words......this line of reasoning has nothing to do with this thread.