What will heaven be like?

[Exaltist Ethan]

There is nothing that cannot be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31-32 “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.”

I interpret those verses to mean that is unforgivable to hate the Holy Spirit because that is the same as hating God, which will not be forgiven in this life or in the afterlife.

What if you finitely hated God or the Holy Spirit for a short amount of time, then came back to embrace it? If you hate God infinitely, then yes, that would be curse infinite to your cause, but if you cause blasphemy to the Holy Spirit briefly then come around to your beliefs, I think an infinite all-loving, all-powerful God could forgive such transgressions.

 

[Valjean]

I do not believe we can create our own realities. I believe the afterlife will be what God created, whatever that is.

Yet evidence from psychology, neurology, and even quantum mechanics indicates we do, What evidence do you have for this God-created Heaven?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yet evidence from psychology, neurology, and even quantum mechanics indicates we do, What evidence do you have for this God-created Heaven?

After @Exaltist Ethan further explained what he meant I changed my mind later in Post #120: "Oh, that is what you meant. I didn't know that is what you meant, but now that I know I agree. Yes, God created this physical world for us to live in and do what we want to with it. It says that in the Bible. It is then possible that if the afterlife exists God will once again give us the foundation, but then it will be up to us what we do with it. That may well be the case, but just as this world is physical and we live and work within those parameters, I believe the next world will be spiritual, so we will have to work and live within those parameters."

Of course I have no evidence that God created Heaven, but it makes sense to me that if God created the entire universe, God also created Heaven.
Oh wait a minute! I see what you are asking. You are asking what evidence I have that a Heaven created by God exists. The only supporting evidence that Heaven exists is in the scriptures, and books about the afterlife written by psychic mediums who communicated with spirits that reside in Heaven.

 

[Truthseeker]

In my religion it says that this world is a counterpart of the spiritual world but I don't understand exactly what that means. I think it means that the 'real world' is the spiritual world and this world is just a reflection of that world, like an image in a mirror.

“The spiritual world is like unto the phenomenal world. They are the exact counterpart of each other. Whatever objects appear in this world of existence are the outer pictures of the world of heaven.” The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 10

I agree with this interpretation.

I do not believe heaven will be a choice. I believe it will be whatever God created for us. There will no longer be a choice to engage in carnal desires, or anything physical, and will be hell for those souls who still desire that existence. As such those souls won't be in heaven, they will be in hell. Heaven is for those souls who desire a spiritual existence, including being close to God and doing service work for God like helping other souls.

I agree with this also.

I am anxious about the fact that heaven is largely unknown to us, but nevertheless I am looking forward to putting off this mortal body and leaving a physical existence, which has caused me mostly suffering. One advantage of suffering in this physical life is so that we don't get attached to it, which is good, since eventually we will be leaving it. This life is only a very small part of our total existence, and serves as preparation for the spiritual world.

That's a different tune than I am used to.

I do not believe that it will be a a choice whether or not we want to continue to exist after we die physically because the soul is immortal so it cannot die. As such I suggest people do the best they can to prepare for living forever. I don't really like the idea of living forever, but I also don't like the idea of nonexistence. I have to just keep reminding myself that the spiritual world won't be like this world. I cannot imagine anything worse than living forever in this world.

That living forever lament is what I am used to. There is a slight variation there.

 

[We Never Know]

I thought to post this thread because yesterday in my GriefShare group the topic was heaven and we watched a video about heaven. The group is comprised of Christians and I am the only Baha’i, although nobody in the group knows that.

As a Baha’i, I believe in heaven, but my beliefs are not exactly the same as Christian beliefs. Firstly, I don’t believe that belief in Jesus is the only way to get to heaven, so only Christians will be in heaven. Secondly, I do not believe that heaven is a geographical location where people go, I believe it is a state of the soul that is near to God, and that after we die, we all go to a spiritual world where everyone will be at various levels of spiritual development.

But this thread is about what heaven will be like, not what we have to do to get there. The Christians in the group said that what heaven will be like is all in the Bible and we have to read the Bible to know what heaven will be like, so what verses specifically describe what heaven will be like?

In the group they said in heaven they will be reunited with their loved one and they will see Jesus. They also said there will be no more sorrow, only joy, since we won’t have to endure all the things we have to endure in this world, like sickness, death, working for a living, and the stresses of everyday life such as car and home repairs.

Christians believe that when they get to heaven, they will see Jesus and converse with Jesus. They also believe they will be reunited with their loved ones, but what do Christians believe they will we be doing for the rest of the time? It seems like that could get boring eventually if that is all they do, as eternity is a very long time. I don’t have a belief about everything we will be doing in heaven, but one thing Baha’is believe we will be doing is continuing to serve God, just as we were doing in this world. The only difference is that there will be no time as we know it in this world, and we won’t have a physical body and all the hassles of everyday life I noted above.

And what kind of body do Christians believe they will have in heaven? The Bible says we will have a spiritual body in heaven, not a physical body (1 Cor 15:40, 44), and that is what Baha’is also believe. Yet in spite of what the Bible actually says, Christians believe they will have a glorified physical body, whatever that is. I see no basis for such a belief since the Bible says nothing about such a body.

Many religious traditions believe in a heaven or paradise where we will be in the afterlife presumably for eternity, so I would like to know what conceptions they hold. If there are scriptures that support those conceptions, I’d like to see those.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a different tune than I am used to.

I hope you know why.

That living forever lament is what I am used to. There is a slight variation there.

Yes, things have changed for me since last year, in case you haven't noticed. Were it not for the cats I'd have no reason to stick around this world since there is nothing else left for me here.

 

[Truthseeker]

I hope you know why.

When I think about it, yes.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There is no proof of existence of heaven or hell, nor that of soul, nor even existence of God. All this is human imagination because of fear of death.
After death is the chemical recycling of what one's body is made of, whether one is cremated, buried, exposed or cast into the sea.
This can be checked by examining the bodies that are buried. In case of very dry regions, burial in snow or bogs, or after cleaning for embalming as in the case of Egyptian Pharaohs, the skin will shrivel up and last for centuries.

Mummy of Pharaoh Ramases III who died had a violent death (1186-11855 BCE).

Question for you.
Have you ever seen something happening in a dream in sleep, that later that actually happend in real life?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Question for you.
Have you ever seen something happening in a dream in sleep, that later that actually happend in real life?

Dreams are the result of defragmentation of memory like in a operating system. During that period, we experience various types of dreams, silly, fearsome, erotic, etc. I have never paid attention to them, just as we do not care about what the defragmentation program is doing to a disk. It is a necessary process of brain health.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Dreams are the result of defragmentation of memory like in a operating system. During that period, we experience various types of dreams, silly, fearsome, erotic, etc. I have never paid attention to them, just as we do not care about what the defragmentation program is doing to a disk. It is a necessary process of brain health.

I wanted to reply in my own words, but I couldn't say it better than Baha'u'llah:

One of the created phenomena is the dream. Behold how many secrets are deposited therein, how many wisdoms treasured up, how many worlds concealed. Observe, how thou art asleep in a dwelling, and its doors are barred; on a sudden thou findest thyself in a far-off city, which thou enterest without moving thy feet or wearying thy body; without using thine eyes, thou seest; without taxing thine ears, thou hearest; without a tongue, thou speakest. And perchance when ten years are gone, thou wilt witness in the outer world the very things thou hast dreamed tonight.

Now there are many wisdoms to ponder in the dream, which none but the people of this Valley can comprehend in their true elements. First, what is this world, where without eye and ear and hand and tongue a man puts all of these to use? Second, how is it that in the outer world thou seest today the effect of a dream, when thou didst vision it in the world of sleep some ten years past? Consider the difference between these two worlds and the mysteries which they conceal, that thou mayest attain to divine confirmations and heavenly discoveries and enter the regions of holiness.

God, the Exalted, hath placed these signs in men, to the end that philosophers may not deny the mysteries of the life beyond nor belittle that which hath been promised them.

Baha'u'llah, Seven Valleys

 

[Aupmanyav]

I wanted to reply in my own words, but I couldn't say it better than Baha'u'llah:

What did he want to say? I can't understand his gibberish.

 

[Muffled]

It will be what you believe it to be.

I believe there will be no murder whether a person believes in it or not.

 

[Muffled]

Today it will be sunny with a high of 65 and a low of 39.

I believe you can have that. There is nothing evil in it.

 

[Muffled]

Heaven is on Earth, its form is whatever gives you peace of mind and bliss.

I believe that is patently false.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Trailblazer,

Given how inadequately the authors of the Bible depicted their personal beliefs about the afterlife, it's not surprising that Christians have differing views on what happens to people after they die. According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then we have to decide which version is more accurate. Is it the King James Version or one of the other English versions? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure its authenticity?

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). You would think that a God like that would have done a much better job of inspiring the Bible to be easily interpreted and agreed upon by his followers, but that's obviously not the case with the God of the Bible. And that's why there are multiple versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, with a plethora of varying English versions). So, God's failure to be more clear with what the Bible actually teaches is why Christianity is vastly divided by Roman Catholics, Messianic Judaism, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a smorgasbord of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, Apostolic Church, Presbyterians, Quakers, and literally hundreds of other Protestant churches.

Personally, I think that we should take whatever is written in the Bible with a grain of salt. As far as I am concerned, the Bible is chock full of contradictions, such as the scriptures that claim that God never changes. For instance, Numbers 23:19 states, "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 also states, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." However, other verses imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God changing his mind (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God will change his mind (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9).

Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I thought to post this thread because yesterday in my GriefShare group the topic was heaven and we watched a video about heaven. The group is comprised of Christians and I am the only Baha’i, although nobody in the group knows that.

As a Baha’i, I believe in heaven, but my beliefs are not exactly the same as Christian beliefs. Firstly, I don’t believe that belief in Jesus is the only way to get to heaven, so only Christians will be in heaven. Secondly, I do not believe that heaven is a geographical location where people go, I believe it is a state of the soul that is near to God, and that after we die, we all go to a spiritual world where everyone will be at various levels of spiritual development.

But this thread is about what heaven will be like, not what we have to do to get there. The Christians in the group said that what heaven will be like is all in the Bible and we have to read the Bible to know what heaven will be like, so what verses specifically describe what heaven will be like?

In the group they said in heaven they will be reunited with their loved one and they will see Jesus. They also said there will be no more sorrow, only joy, since we won’t have to endure all the things we have to endure in this world, like sickness, death, working for a living, and the stresses of everyday life such as car and home repairs.

Christians believe that when they get to heaven, they will see Jesus and converse with Jesus. They also believe they will be reunited with their loved ones, but what do Christians believe they will we be doing for the rest of the time? It seems like that could get boring eventually if that is all they do, as eternity is a very long time. I don’t have a belief about everything we will be doing in heaven, but one thing Baha’is believe we will be doing is continuing to serve God, just as we were doing in this world. The only difference is that there will be no time as we know it in this world, and we won’t have a physical body and all the hassles of everyday life I noted above.

And what kind of body do Christians believe they will have in heaven? The Bible says we will have a spiritual body in heaven, not a physical body (1 Cor 15:40, 44), and that is what Baha’is also believe. Yet in spite of what the Bible actually says, Christians believe they will have a glorified physical body, whatever that is. I see no basis for such a belief since the Bible says nothing about such a body.

Many religious traditions believe in a heaven or paradise where we will be in the afterlife presumably for eternity, so I would like to know what conceptions they hold. If there are scriptures that support those conceptions, I’d like to see those.

In my understanding, for the most part When the Messengers and Manifestations of God spoke of Heaven, they were not talking about life after the physical death of the body. But they were saying, there will be a Judgement Day, when the Dead shall be raised and judged to determine if he or she are in heaven or hell. And as we now know, the Judgement Day is not a Day, physically anyone is resurrected. Thus, the Heaven and Hell, are not related to the spiritual life after death. It is Heaven of Belief and Hell of unbelief.


"The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto “life” and “resurrection” and have entered into the “paradise” of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to “death” and “deprivation,” to the “fire” of unbelief, and to the “wrath” of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. "
Baha'u'llah

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer,

Given how inadequately the authors of the Bible depicted their personal beliefs about the afterlife, it's not surprising that Christians have differing views on what happens to people after they die. According to the Christian theological and apologetic websites I read online, the Bible was authored over a period of 1,500 years by forty men, from three continents, and in three languages: Hebrew, everyday Greek (called "Koine"), and Aramaic (an ancient language originating in Syria). And that's not to mention the number of times the Bible has been translated into different languages. I searched online to find out how many English versions of the Bible are now in print, and the results ranged from 50 to more than 60 (see the search results here). With all of that in mind, which Bible should we read? Should we read the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon; the Greek Orthodox Bible, with a 79-book canon; or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon? If it's a Protestant Bible, then we have to decide which version is more accurate. Is it the King James Version or one of the other English versions? Or perhaps we should read the Bible in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to ensure its authenticity?

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). You would think that a God like that would have done a much better job of inspiring the Bible to be easily interpreted and agreed upon by his followers, but that's obviously not the case with the God of the Bible. And that's why there are multiple versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, with a plethora of varying English versions). So, God's failure to be more clear with what the Bible actually teaches is why Christianity is vastly divided by Roman Catholics, Messianic Judaism, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a smorgasbord of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, Apostolic Church, Presbyterians, Quakers, and literally hundreds of other Protestant churches.

Personally, I think that we should take whatever is written in the Bible with a grain of salt. As far as I am concerned, the Bible is chock full of contradictions, such as the scriptures that claim that God never changes. For instance, Numbers 23:19 states, "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 also states, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." However, other verses imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God changing his mind (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God will change his mind (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9).

Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

*INFORMATIVE*

 

[Trailblazer]

Thus, the Heaven and Hell, are not related to the spiritual life after death. It is Heaven of Belief and Hell of unbelief.

"The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto “life” and “resurrection” and have entered into the “paradise” of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to “death” and “deprivation,” to the “fire” of unbelief, and to the “wrath” of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. "
Baha'u'llah

Regarding being 'born water and of the Spirit' Jesus said something similar to that.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jesus never spoke of rising from the physical grave. Jesus said to let the dead bury their dead, meaning let the spiritually dead bury the physically dead. Being born of the spirit has nothing to do with the body. It means spiritual rebirth, exactly the same thing that Baha’u’llah wrote about:

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

How can anyone possibly believe this refers to the death of a physical body?

 

[TLK Valentine]

In the group they said in heaven they will be reunited with their loved one and they will see Jesus. They also said there will be no more sorrow, only joy, since we won’t have to endure all the things we have to endure in this world, like sickness, death, working for a living, and the stresses of everyday life such as car and home repairs.

Sounds boring - facing and overcoming adversity is what allows us to grow as human beings.

Christians believe that when they get to heaven, they will see Jesus and converse with Jesus. They also believe they will be reunited with their loved ones, but what do Christians believe they will we be doing for the rest of the time? It seems like that could get boring eventually if that is all they do, as eternity is a very long time. I don’t have a belief about everything we will be doing in heaven, but one thing Baha’is believe we will be doing is continuing to serve God, just as we were doing in this world. The only difference is that there will be no time as we know it in this world, and we won’t have a physical body and all the hassles of everyday life I noted above.

Well, I certainly have a lot of questions - starting with the big ones about the meaning of life, down to "Ok, seriously; the platypus - what were you thinking?"

And what kind of body do Christians believe they will have in heaven? The Bible says we will have a spiritual body in heaven, not a physical body (1 Cor 15:40, 44), and that is what Baha’is also believe. Yet in spite of what the Bible actually says, Christians believe they will have a glorified physical body, whatever that is. I see no basis for such a belief since the Bible says nothing about such a body.

If "glorified" is another word for "perfect," then I'm very interested, as my definition of "perfect" would require adaptability.
Want to play some basketball? Instantly grow to 7 feet tall.
How about sprouting a third arm to help practice those drum solos?

It'll really put the whole "transgender" debate here on Earth in perspective, won't it?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds boring - facing and overcoming adversity is what allows us to grow as human beings.

No, I believe there will be plenty of things to do in heaven, so it won't be boring. One thing people who are in heaven will be doing is helping those who are in hell get out of hell.

Well, I certainly have a lot of questions - starting with the big ones about the meaning of life, down to "Ok, seriously; the platypus - what were you thinking?"

You may well find out what the meaning of this life was without even having to ask. On the other hand I think there will be other more advanced souls you can ask if you don't realize it yourself.

If "glorified" is another word for "perfect," then I'm very interested, as my definition of "perfect" would require adaptability.
Want to play some basketball? Instantly grow to 7 feet tall.
How about sprouting a third arm to help practice those drum solos?

No, That is not exactly what Christians believe a glorified body will be. They believe it will be a physical body that is like what they believe Jesus had after He was resurrected. It will be physical but immortal and it will have special powers, just as Jesus had. Other than that I don't know what they believe it will be like.

It'll really put the whole "transgender" debate here on Earth in perspective, won't it?

Transgender will be a moot point since souls in heaven will get a spiritual body and it won't have a gender or sexuality.