What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[loverofhumanity]

You're allowed to follow what you want; yet Baha'u'llah is wrong as a fulfilment of prophecy, and unless you can show otherwise, we can show where in texts he is leading people the wrong way.

In my opinion.

You're allowed to follow what you want; yet Baha'u'llah is wrong as a fulfilment of prophecy, and unless you can show otherwise, we can show where in texts he is leading people the wrong way.

In my opinion.

Everyone has their own interpretation of prophecy and already Christianity is split into thousands of sects because of disagreements but the only real proof that Jesus was Who He said He was Is Himself and His teachings as with Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah said of humankind, ‘Ye are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch’ and ‘the earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’ and to ‘consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship’.

Among His teachings is to ‘possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart’. He said ‘in the garden of thy heart plant naught but the rose of love’

These teachings alone are proof He is from God and no further argument is required as it clear that these things are in tune with all the Holy Books.

 

[tigrers2019]

According to Jesus and Paul, it is supposed to be very sudden and very loud. God's spiritual children (living and deceased)are to suddenly find themselves in a euphoric eternal paradise, and those not His children (living and deceased) are to suddenly find themselves in eternal torment. The universe will have been destroyed and all physical elements wrapped up to as before the creation.

 

[CG Didymus]

Luke supposedly quotes some angel that says this "same" Jesus will come back.

So Luke says that the resurrected body of Jesus ascended into the sky and will come back. You and I'm sure most Baha'is believe the body of Jesus is dead and has long since decomposed.

The body of Jesus could not come back from heaven because it died on earth

But Luke quotes the resurrected Jesus as saying that he has flesh and bone and is not a ghost.

Luke 24:39 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Your response is?

Do you ever get tired of complaining about the Baha’is? I guess not.

Keep throwing the fuel but it will only make the fire grow longer and hotter and brighter.
I guess psychology and logic were not your best subjects in school.

Do you even care what the truth about God is?

First, how are those questions complaining? Second, what fuel? You mean how at some point Baha'is have no answers? Third, logic and psychology? What are you talking about? I've heard your logic. Unfortunately, it is the Baha'i version of Christian Fundamentalism. You are right no matter what because Baha'u'llah said so. So there.

What is this truth about God you're alluding to? Your truth? The Baha'i truth? No, the fine details don't add up... like progressive revelation and the fulfillment of prophecy. Hinduism and Buddhism didn't progress into Judaism and Christianity and then into Islam and the Baha'i Faith. I've asked about the rebellion and the man of lawlessness that is to come before the return of Christ. That should be easy. Who was he and what was this rebellion?

 

[CG Didymus]

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death:

You act as if what liberal theologians say is somehow true. It all means the same thing. They, Baha'is and atheists question a literal interpretation of the Bible. So do I. But the worst interpretation of them all for me is Abdul Baha's interpretation of the resurrection in Some Answered Questions...

Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
​

Like I always say... call it myth, a lie, or a total fabrication, but really? Four gospels telling a story about the resurrection and appearing of Jesus and this is the "true" meaning of those verses? For all the great things that Baha'is believe in, when it comes to explanations like this, it really makes me doubt the truth of the Baha'i Faith. And then how blindly the Baha'is follow it all... without question. Do you believe this? Do you believe everything that the Baha'is Faith teaches? Oh, you're Miss Logical and Miss Psychology, so everything in the Baha'i Faith makes logical sense to you? No doubt? No questions? No cognitive dissonance?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So Luke says that the resurrected body of Jesus ascended into the sky and will come back. You and I'm sure most Baha'is believe the body of Jesus is dead and has long since decomposed.

But Luke quotes the resurrected Jesus as saying that he has flesh and bone and is not a ghost.

Your response is?

First, how are those questions complaining? Second, what fuel? You mean how at some point Baha'is have no answers? Third, logic and psychology? What are you talking about? I've heard your logic. Unfortunately, it is the Baha'i version of Christian Fundamentalism. You are right no matter what because Baha'u'llah said so. So there.

What is this truth about God you're alluding to? Your truth? The Baha'i truth? No, the fine details don't add up... like progressive revelation and the fulfillment of prophecy. Hinduism and Buddhism didn't progress into Judaism and Christianity and then into Islam and the Baha'i Faith. I've asked about the rebellion and the man of lawlessness that is to come before the return of Christ. That should be easy. Who was he and what was this rebellion?

CG I enjoy your posts so just fire away. With regards to flesh and bone. Why couldn’t this have taken place in a dream or vision? When I dream of people in a dream they are flesh and bone. So it’s no contradiction to say that it wasn’t the physical body that was seen in the waking world but that it happened in a spiritual vision.

Don’t forget the vision the disciples had on Mount Tabor which was very real to them but never the less Jesus confirmed in the Bible it was a vision and to ‘ tell no man’ as there were others on the mountain at the time who saw nothing. The literalist view is not the only way of understanding these passages. They can be understood in a manner that complies with both science and reason not only in a superstitious way.

Keep this in mind and try and accept the ‘possibility’ that it might have been a vision.
Here’s some more on this topic from Abdul-Baha..


Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.

 

[CG Didymus]

People who cling to outward forms instead of following the inner Light will of course fail to recognise a new Manifestation.

Why would anybody that was following some "inner light" be following any "organized" religion? And, speaking of "organized" religion, I've seen what the "organized" part of the Baha'i Faith can do to people. Just like Christians that go to church every Sunday, how many Baha'i only go to feast every 19 days and that is the extent of their Baha'i experience? Very few older Baha'is were taking part in the mass-teaching efforts of the 70's. It was mostly young Baha'is. And understandably so. The older ones had jobs. They had kids to feed and bills to pay. They couldn't just up and go on some teaching project. A project that was believed to be necessary to bring about "entry by troops" into the Baha'i Faith.

But you know, when I think of "inner light", I think more of the people in the west who turned to Eastern religious thought... like things taught in religions from India and China. The Baha'i Faith don't got much of that. The Baha'i Faith seems to have the most in common with Islam. So is it really a progression from all the other religions, or a progression, or a liberal form, of Islam?

And while I'm on the subject of Islam. You ask about what the second coming should look like. It should look like Muhammad's appearance. Or, he's different? And The Bab and Baha'u'llah are the predicted "twin" second comings of Christ? Or, all three are all second comings of Christ? Or, The Bab is the predicted coming of Elijah or John the Baptist. Or, is The Bab the main one, since so many prophecies point to him and the year 1844? And then which one was predicted by the Buddha? Jesus, Muhammad, or the Baha'i prophets? Or are all of them Maitreyas? Too many pieces.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why would anybody that was following some "inner light" be following any "organized" religion? And, speaking of "organized" religion, I've seen what the "organized" part of the Baha'i Faith can do to people. Just like Christians that go to church every Sunday, how many Baha'i only go to feast every 19 days and that is the extent of their Baha'i experience? Very few older Baha'is were taking part in the mass-teaching efforts of the 70's. It was mostly young Baha'is. And understandably so. The older ones had jobs. They had kids to feed and bills to pay. They couldn't just up and go on some teaching project. A project that was believed to be necessary to bring about "entry by troops" into the Baha'i Faith.

But you know, when I think of "inner light", I think more of the people in the west who turned to Eastern religious thought... like things taught in religions from India and China. The Baha'i Faith don't got much of that. The Baha'i Faith seems to have the most in common with Islam. So is it really a progression from all the other religions, or a progression, or a liberal form, of Islam?

And while I'm on the subject of Islam. You ask about what the second coming should look like. It should look like Muhammad's appearance. Or, he's different? And The Bab and Baha'u'llah are the predicted "twin" second comings of Christ? Or, all three are all second comings of Christ? Or, The Bab is the predicted coming of Elijah or John the Baptist. Or, is The Bab the main one, since so many prophecies point to him and the year 1844? And then which one was predicted by the Buddha? Jesus, Muhammad, or the Baha'i prophets? Or are all of them Maitreyas? Too many pieces.

In mystic Hinduism, 'inner light' is literal. Apparently it gets brighter the deeper you go.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG I enjoy your posts so just fire away. With regards to flesh and bone. Why couldn’t this have taken place in a dream or vision? When I dream of people in a dream they are flesh and bone. So it’s no contradiction to say that it wasn’t the physical body that was seen in the waking world but that it happened in a spiritual vision.

Don’t forget the vision the disciples had on Mount Tabor which was very real to them but never the less Jesus confirmed in the Bible it was a vision and to ‘ tell no man’ as there were others on the mountain at the time who saw nothing. The literalist view is not the only way of understanding these passages. They can be understood in a manner that complies with both science and reason not only in a superstitious way.

Keep this in mind and try and accept the ‘possibility’ that it might have been a vision.
Here’s some more on this topic from Abdul-Baha..


Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.

I'm fine with it be a total myth. But the Early Christians believed it was real. Were they wrong? Was it just a legend that got spread around that Jesus had come back to life, and his disciples kept telling stories of how they had seen him. If it is not true, then that's what I think. It is fiction. Not a dream. Not symbolic. Just plain old stories made up to make Jesus into something bigger and greater than any other prophet or spiritual teacher... virtually God in the flesh. I don't have a problem outright calling it myth, but I think Baha'i do. They seem to need an explanation that makes the story true, but not literally true.

 

[Vinayaka]

What are your thoughts? Will it be a magical event with angels in the sky with Christ riding on the clouds with all true believers being taken up to heaven and people rising from their graves?

Are the signs of the Second Coming literal or figurative?

And as no one has ever seen Jesus how will anyone know it is Him or not? Is it at all possible that His Coming could have be missed as Christ said to watch and pray and that He would come like a thief in the night. What would He steal?

Do you think the traditional literal interpretations are correct and why or why not?

My actual thoughts are it won't happen, and didn't happen the first time. The question is just one of many of this type that has hidden assumptions. Being a reader of 'between the lines' I generally question the question, as you know. I think it more logical to preface such questions with 'assuming it did happen...'.

But if this line of reasoning is unreasonable to you, I'll happily delete my post.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why would anybody that was following some "inner light" be following any "organized" religion? And, speaking of "organized" religion, I've seen what the "organized" part of the Baha'i Faith can do to people. Just like Christians that go to church every Sunday, how many Baha'i only go to feast every 19 days and that is the extent of their Baha'i experience? Very few older Baha'is were taking part in the mass-teaching efforts of the 70's. It was mostly young Baha'is. And understandably so. The older ones had jobs. They had kids to feed and bills to pay. They couldn't just up and go on some teaching project. A project that was believed to be necessary to bring about "entry by troops" into the Baha'i Faith.

But you know, when I think of "inner light", I think more of the people in the west who turned to Eastern religious thought... like things taught in religions from India and China. The Baha'i Faith don't got much of that. The Baha'i Faith seems to have the most in common with Islam. So is it really a progression from all the other religions, or a progression, or a liberal form, of Islam?

And while I'm on the subject of Islam. You ask about what the second coming should look like. It should look like Muhammad's appearance. Or, he's different? And The Bab and Baha'u'llah are the predicted "twin" second comings of Christ? Or, all three are all second comings of Christ? Or, The Bab is the predicted coming of Elijah or John the Baptist. Or, is The Bab the main one, since so many prophecies point to him and the year 1844? And then which one was predicted by the Buddha? Jesus, Muhammad, or the Baha'i prophets? Or are all of them Maitreyas? Too many pieces.

By inner light I was referring to people worshipping personalities (the lamp) instead of the light of God within each Messenger. People tend to get attached to the outward forms a lot and lose sight of things like the virtues.

To find a lot of the answers to your questions you must fo your own research which I have done. In Buddhism from my own investigation I found the Bab, Baha’u’llah and Abdul-Baha all prophesied but you have to study these things for yourself as it is too lengthy to post. Even Baha’u’llah’s exile I found in both Buddhist and Christian scriptures. Even the World Centre and Baha’u’llah’s Shrine are described. In Buddhist scriptures Baha’u’llah is described as the Great King of Glory as in the Bible.

All the Manifestations are Suns of Truth. They are all the beginning and the end, the first and the last. But with regards to personality and Their Message Each has a different message for the time They appeared and outwardly had a different personality.

With regards to Their Inner Being They are one and the same.

The Baha’i Faith is a stage in the spiritual evolution of the Faith of God.

‘This is the changeless Faith of God eternal in the past eternal in the future- Baha’u’llah

All the Faiths are linked and part of one evolving process. The only division is in the minds of men. Different Teachers focused on different lessons we needed to learn. With Jesus it was love, with Buddha - mindfulness, with Muhammad - nationhood and with Baha’u’llah world unity. They each compliment each other. We need love and mindfulness and love for country and humanity. But could Jesus have taught world citizenship in His Day? When the world hadn’t been fully discovered? So that was left to Baha’u’llah.

None of this is confusing to me because I have done extensive research which it appears you need to do.

The proofs are all there for people willing to do the research. Seek and you shall find. We have to investigate truth for ourselves. Having done all this investigation I am not rattled by some imperfections I come across but if one hasn’t really understood the Faith then ones faith will be shaken by the slightest test. I have been severely tested yet I have learnt to distinguish between the truth of Baha’u’llah and the imperfections of Baha’is.

My Faith is not dependent on whether people are kind or good or imperfect.

 

[Vinayaka]

None of this is confusing to me because I have done extensive research which it appears you need to do.

In observing people in 'debates' it always amazes me that each side will suggest that the other needs to do more research. Don't you find something rather odd about that? From the neutral perspective, it most certainly seems odd. I have no idea whose research has been deeper, or more accurate. It is just so rare for someone to say, "Hmmm, maybe I need to do more research." The assumption is always that it's the other guy who needs to. Folly.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In observing people in 'debates' it always amazes me that each side will suggest that the other needs to do more research. Don't you find something rather odd about that? From the neutral perspective, it most certainly seems odd. I have no idea whose research has been deeper, or more accurate. It is just so rare for someone to say, "Hmmm, maybe I need to do more research." The assumption is always that it's the other guy who needs to. Folly.

In a proper debate both sides are supposed to research the topic thoroughly so as to be well informed.

When people criticise me about a topic I have thoroughly studied I know by their reply that they have done no research so suggest they do more research so we can have an informed discussion.

For instance many people attack the Quran but have never read a single passage so these people must be called out to not just blindly criticise it but do so with substance and knowledge quoting passages.

Some speak just with emotion and self assertion but have no real knowledge of that which they criticise.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My actual thoughts are it won't happen, and didn't happen the first time. The question is just one of many of this type that has hidden assumptions. Being a reader of 'between the lines' I generally question the question, as you know. I think it more logical to preface such questions with 'assuming it did happen...'.

But if this line of reasoning is unreasonable to you, I'll happily delete my post.

Im always happy to hear your thoughts and views.

 

[Deeje]

To me the Bible is the Word of God and it always keeps its promises. I think that people have been misled by clergy and ministers into continuing to ‘delay ‘ Christ’s second coming. And that as long as people have itchy ears and get hooked by smooth talkers they will never see that Jesus has already appeared.

I agree that the Bible is the word of God and it truly does keep its promises. But the 'delay' was foretold.

“For the vision is yet for its appointed time,
And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie.
Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it!
For it will without fail come true.
It will not be late!” (Habakkuk 2:3)

Christ’s return was connected to the “great day of God the Almighty”, prophesied through the prophets of old and confirmed by Jesus himself. It will be the greatest calamity ever to befall mankind. (Matthew 24:21) That day is yet to come, as the apostle John describes in his Revelation. “Armageddon” is God’s war with Satan and all who succumb to his deceptions. All who deny Christ. any who follow false gods, and all who may identify as "Christian" but who fail to 'do the will of the Father' will come to grief. (Matthew 7:21-23) That would include all beliefs and practices that were introduced from outside of the Bible's teachings.

If Christ has already returned then he lied when he said “the world will behold me no more”. But he promised that his disciples would "see him" because after their resurrection they would also be spirit beings who will rule with Jesus in heaven. They are the only ones who would "see" Jesus again. (Revelation 20:6)

Christ was never coming back in the flesh....because he sacrificed his human body to pay the debt left by our forefather Adam.....nor was he going to come from Islam, because Jesus said salvation was to come through the Jews. (John 4:22) So two expectations held by the Baha’i faith are false IMO.

The prophet you claim to be 'Christ returned' was not like Jesus in any way....Jesus was physically perfect...sinless. Jesus is called “the last Adam”, because he was the exact equivalent of the first Adam.....he would never have died of natural causes, because sin was not in him. Death is the result of sin. (Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 7:26)

According to Wiki....
“Bahá'u'lláh (1817–1892) announced that he was this prophet.”

This is a prophet who claimed to be Christ returned, but he had nothing to back up his claim (no miracles as Jesus and his apostles after him had performed) and he died of a fever.....as a perfect human specimen, sickness was something Jesus would never have experienced. There was no 'natural' cause of death in Eden. Sin is what introduced death into the human race. (Romans 5:12) Bahá'u'lláh was just a man who made claims he could not substantiate.

It is interesting to me that Bahá'u'lláh has an elaborate tomb, but Jesus doesn’t have one at all. I see no connection whatsoever between these two men. The Bible rules Bahá'u'lláh out as any prophet of significance because Jesus was God’s last prophet. (Hebrews 1:1-4) We don't need any others. Jesus taught us everything we need to know....and the Revelation takes us 1,000 years into the future.

Think about it. With around 40,000 sects of Christianity, divided amongst itself against God’s wishes to remain united who do you think God is going to raise up? The Catholics, JW or Adventist’s who all say each other is wrong. Where is love? It seems all these sects are more concerned about being politically correct than loving one another.

Where is love...period!?? Do you see it in the Islamic nations? Most of the world’s refugees are from Islamic countries. What are they escaping from? Why are they fleeing to so called "Christian" countries?
What about the nation of Israel? Is there peace and love there?
And among the thousands of sects of Christendom, we see hatred and bloodshed based on patriotic concerns, not on genuine Christian love, which was supposed to be extended even to their enemies.(Matthew 5:44-48)

It’s all a bit of a sad joke to suggest that “peace, love and mung beans” can exist in this atmosphere of hate.
As Jesus said...'its easy to love those who love you....but another matter entirely to love your enemies'. This love is the proof of true Christianity and only a "few" are going to demonstrate it because its a very difficult thing to do. (Matthew 7:13-14)

None of the Abrahamic religions can make reconciliation of all faiths come about, because the hatreds run too deep and it’s too entrenched in human nature and thinking. God was never going to bring about peace on earth by compromise. He was never going to present people with mixed messages spoken by prophets of different faiths because the God of the Bible was not the originator of those faiths......he can only speak one truth, which can never accommodate compromise on any of God’s statements contained in his only real communication with mankind. The Bible is not the words written by just one man.....God used many ‘secretaries’ to record his word, but the internal harmony is proof that there are no charlatans trying to sway people with their own ideas. The Bible could never have been written by just one man. It could never have been preserved all this time except by God's protection either.

I believe Jesus returned but the spirit of love for Jesus had so disintegrated into sects and wars and hostility towards one another that they never knew Him when He came.

Exactly....but Daniel wrote about the “time of the end” 500 years before Jesus came down to the earth. He was told to "seal up" his writings because they would not be understood until then. (Daniel12:4; 9-10)

All we needed to know was already written before Jesus even came to save the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”.

If you cannot be loving towards each other and cannot be in perfect unity then you’re no way going to recognize Jesus when He returned because love for each other had been replaced by disunity and sectarianism. I believe under these circumstances God changed Christians for another people who weren’t busy fighting and arguing over doctrines and were more willing to accept Him with love than be immersed in squabbling and sectarianism.

You are right, God did change his worshippers for another people.....for that very reason...but they were not going to be an offshoot of Islam with a self proclaimed prophet. Why would they? All the promises in connection with Jesus were to come through Isaac, not Ishmael....through the Jews not Muslims.

What happened in the first century was to be repeated in ‘the time of the end’, just as Daniel foretold.....

Jesus came, not to correct a rebellious and stiff necked people, but to rescue the “lost” ones out of that nation, so it was to be in our day. Again, out of the disunited rabble that we call “Christendom”, Jesus would lead out of them a ‘cleansed, whitened and refined’ people. God would release "abundant knowledge" at that time, so that those with the right heart condition would respond to this knowledge and 'cleanse and refine' themselves spiritually. These, Daniel said would be given 'insight and understanding'. Those who refused the cleansing would not understand anything. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

Christians I sadly believe missed the boat because they were too busy fighting amongst themselves to notice Christ’s return. You were commanded to ‘ watch and pray’ but were busy in your theological disputes so you didn’t watch. He came like a Thief in the night and others saw His Coming while Christians still were arguing amongst themselves.

Yes, you are right. But he led a group of people out of that situation who all saw the need for a thorough cleansing. He did not abandon Christianity, but he did abandon Christendom which has its foundations in Roman Catholicism. She has many daughters. We are told to remove ourselves from that corrupted religion and to separate ourselves from any religion whose beliefs and practices originate in ancient Babylon. (Revelation 18:4-5)

The designation “Babylon the great” encompasses all false worship. You can identify them by their common beliefs....some of which are, immortality of the soul....hellfire....and multiplications of gods. One or all of these doctrines dominate in Babylon the great.

I believe that Christians have no one but themselves to blame for missing Christ’s return because they turn to clergy and ministers and elders forgetting that it was the religious priests in Christ’s time who had Him crucified.

Well, I have to agree that Christendom’s expectations concerning Christ’s return are not going to be fulfilled, just as the Jewish expectation concerning their Messiah has gone unfulfilled. If the expectation is in error, so will the beliefs be shown to be in error. God does not lie....nor does he 'speak with a forked tongue' like the "original serpent".

The love and unity would be evident in one group of people.....not an offshoot of any particular branch of Christianity, but one that had returned to its origins. One that was dominated by love and a refusal to be part of this world and its godless materialism, bloodthirsty religions and corrupt politics. They would also be engaged in the work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples.....the global preaching of the good news of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 10:11-14; Matthew 28:19-20) Jesus promised that he would back this work and he has.

God's Kingdom is the only real hope for peace on earth. Sinful humans will never bring it about, but according to Revelation, they will try. A 'one world government' will be introduced on the promise of it bringing "peace and security" to the world...but it will end in the greatest 'tribulation' the world has ever seen. (Matthew 24:21)

So there can never be support for this global government from Christ's true disciples because it will mean compromise with this world. Jesus said his Kingdom is 'not from this world' and that his disciples would be "no part" of it. (John 17:15-16; John 18:36) They will not oppose it however, but allow God to do whatever he must to bring an end to all the failures of humans to govern themselves without him. (Daniel 2:44)

Christ's return was not to simply bring a message...he already accomplished that....his coming again was to rid the world of all wickedness and to bring in the rule of the Kingdom to those who want to qualify for residence there. It is a time of separation...."sheep" from "goats". Jesus knows who they are.

That is how I see things playing out.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree that the Bible is the word of God and it truly does keep its promises. But the 'delay' was foretold.

“For the vision is yet for its appointed time,
And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie.
Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it!
For it will without fail come true.
It will not be late!” (Habakkuk 2:3)

Christ’s return was connected to the “great day of God the Almighty”, prophesied through the prophets of old and confirmed by Jesus himself. It will be the greatest calamity ever to befall mankind. (Matthew 24:21) That day is yet to come, as the apostle John describes in his Revelation. “Armageddon” is God’s war with Satan and all who succumb to his deceptions. All who deny Christ. any who follow false gods, and all who may identify as "Christian" but who fail to 'do the will of the Father' will come to grief. (Matthew 7:21-23) That would include all beliefs and practices that were introduced from outside of the Bible's teachings.

If Christ has already returned then he lied when he said “the world will behold me no more”. But he promised that his disciples would "see him" because after their resurrection they would also be spirit beings who will rule with Jesus in heaven. They are the only ones who would "see" Jesus again. (Revelation 20:6)

Christ was never coming back in the flesh....because he sacrificed his human body to pay the debt left by our forefather Adam.....nor was he going to come from Islam, because Jesus said salvation was to come through the Jews. (John 4:22) So two expectations held by the Baha’i faith are false IMO.

The prophet you claim to be 'Christ returned' was not like Jesus in any way....Jesus was physically perfect...sinless. Jesus is called “the last Adam”, because he was the exact equivalent of the first Adam.....he would never have died of natural causes, because sin was not in him. Death is the result of sin. (Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 7:26)

According to Wiki....
“Bahá'u'lláh (1817–1892) announced that he was this prophet.”

This is a prophet who claimed to be Christ returned, but he had nothing to back up his claim (no miracles as Jesus and his apostles after him had performed) and he died of a fever.....as a perfect human specimen, sickness was something Jesus would never have experienced. There was no 'natural' cause of death in Eden. Sin is what introduced death into the human race. (Romans 5:12) Bahá'u'lláh was just a man who made claims he could not substantiate.

It is interesting to me that Bahá'u'lláh has an elaborate tomb, but Jesus doesn’t have one at all. I see no connection whatsoever between these two men. The Bible rules Bahá'u'lláh out as any prophet of significance because Jesus was God’s last prophet. (Hebrews 1:1-4) We don't need any others. Jesus taught us everything we need to know....and the Revelation takes us 1,000 years into the future.



Where is love...period!?? Do you see it in the Islamic nations? Most of the world’s refugees are from Islamic countries. What are they escaping from? Why are they fleeing to so called "Christian" countries?
What about the nation of Israel? Is there peace and love there?
And among the thousands of sects of Christendom, we see hatred and bloodshed based on patriotic concerns, not on genuine Christian love, which was supposed to be extended even to their enemies.(Matthew 5:44-48)

It’s all a bit of a sad joke to suggest that “peace, love and mung beans” can exist in this atmosphere of hate.
As Jesus said...'its easy to love those who love you....but another matter entirely to love your enemies'. This love is the proof of true Christianity and only a "few" are going to demonstrate it because its a very difficult thing to do. (Matthew 7:13-14)

None of the Abrahamic religions can make reconciliation of all faiths come about, because the hatreds run too deep and it’s too entrenched in human nature and thinking. God was never going to bring about peace on earth by compromise. He was never going to present people with mixed messages spoken by prophets of different faiths because the God of the Bible was not the originator of those faiths......he can only speak one truth, which can never accommodate compromise on any of God’s statements contained in his only real communication with mankind. The Bible is not the words written by just one man.....God used many ‘secretaries’ to record his word, but the internal harmony is proof that there are no charlatans trying to sway people with their own ideas. The Bible could never have been written by just one man. It could never have been preserved all this time except by God's protection either.



Exactly....but Daniel wrote about the “time of the end” 500 years before Jesus came down to the earth. He was told to "seal up" his writings because they would not be understood until then. (Daniel12:4; 9-10)

All we needed to know was already written before Jesus even came to save the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”.



You are right, God did change his worshippers for another people.....for that very reason...but they were not going to be an offshoot of Islam with a self proclaimed prophet. Why would they? All the promises in connection with Jesus were to come through Isaac, not Ishmael....through the Jews not Muslims.

What happened in the first century was to be repeated in ‘the time of the end’, just as Daniel foretold.....

Jesus came, not to correct a rebellious and stiff necked people, but to rescue the “lost” ones out of that nation, so it was to be in our day. Again, out of the disunited rabble that we call “Christendom”, Jesus would lead out of them a ‘cleansed, whitened and refined’ people. God would release "abundant knowledge" at that time, so that those with the right heart condition would respond to this knowledge and 'cleanse and refine' themselves spiritually. These, Daniel said would be given 'insight and understanding'. Those who refused the cleansing would not understand anything. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)



Yes, you are right. But he led a group of people out of that situation who all saw the need for a thorough cleansing. He did not abandon Christianity, but he did abandon Christendom which has its foundations in Roman Catholicism. She has many daughters. We are told to remove ourselves from that corrupted religion and to separate ourselves from any religion whose beliefs and practices originate in ancient Babylon. (Revelation 18:4-5)

The designation “Babylon the great” encompasses all false worship. You can identify them by their common beliefs....some of which are, immortality of the soul....hellfire....and multiplications of gods. One or all of these doctrines dominate in Babylon the great.



Well, I have to agree that Christendom’s expectations concerning Christ’s return are not going to be fulfilled, just as the Jewish expectation concerning their Messiah has gone unfulfilled. If the expectation is in error, so will the beliefs be shown to be in error. God does not lie....nor does he 'speak with a forked tongue' like the "original serpent".

The love and unity would be evident in one group of people.....not an offshoot of any particular branch of Christianity, but one that had returned to its origins. One that was dominated by love and a refusal to be part of this world and its godless materialism, bloodthirsty religions and corrupt politics. They would also be engaged in the work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples.....the global preaching of the good news of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 10:11-14; Matthew 28:19-20) Jesus promised that he would back this work and he has.

God's Kingdom is the only real hope for peace on earth. Sinful humans will never bring it about, but according to Revelation, they will try. A 'one world government' will be introduced on the promise of it bringing "peace and security" to the world...but it will end in the greatest 'tribulation' the world has ever seen. (Matthew 24:21)

So there can never be support for this global government from Christ's true disciples because it will mean compromise with this world. Jesus said his Kingdom is 'not from this world' and that his disciples would be "no part" of it. (John 17:15-16; John 18:36) They will not oppose it however, but allow God to do whatever he must to bring an end to all the failures of humans to govern themselves without him. (Daniel 2:44)

Christ's return was not to simply bring a message...he already accomplished that....his coming again was to rid the world of all wickedness and to bring in the rule of the Kingdom to those who want to qualify for residence there. It is a time of separation...."sheep" from "goats". Jesus knows who they are.

That is how I see things playing out.

Luke 12 45-47

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The Jews still say Christ hasn’t come yet. And 2,000 years later still await His first coming. You’ve all just got this fixation that Hes never coming, He’s come and gone and those who believe have been lifted up and the rest left behind to have theological disputes.

 

[firedragon]

43:60-61 And if We please, We could make among you angels to be successors in the land. And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.

4:159: And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.

In our opinion.

Thanks for quoting the Quran. It doesn't say what you want to say though.

 

[Deeje]

Luke 12 45-47

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The Jews still say Christ hasn’t come yet. And 2,000 years later still await His first coming. You’ve all just got this fixation that Hes never coming, He’s come and gone and those who believe have been lifted up and the rest left behind to have theological disputes.

That is not true of Jehovah's witnesses. We believe that he has come back already, but not in the way that Christendom assumes.....he gave a sign to indicate when his reign began...something we would not need if it was a visible event. All the various facets of the sign have been in evidence since 1914 if you read Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

Matthew 24:3
"While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence (parousia) and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

His "presence" (rather than his "coming") was what his disciples needed to discern. It was the time when many discerned from the scriptures that the time of the end was imminent. How long that would run was not known.

Matthew 24:7-14...Jesus said....
“Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

The First World War was one of the first features. It was an unprecedented war that was not anticipated, but resulted in all the nations being drawn into a global conflict, fighting "enemies" simply because of pre-arranged alliances. Christians in one nation were killing Christians of another nation, proving that they were not Christians at all.
That was followed by "food shortages"....famine was the result of resources being channeled into the war effort rather than into food production. Food was severely rationed.
The epidemic of the Spanish Flu took more lives than the war did.....and great earthquakes have dominated in this time of the end. (Luke 21:10-11)

Persecution of Christ's followers occurred because his true disciples would not participate in the bloodshed. (John 15:18-21) Nor would they participate in Christendom's pagan holidays. The stumbling and betrayal have continued to the present day and the love that we are supposed to have for each other has all but vanished from the world. Increasing lawlessness has made people wary...and you cannot truly love those you do not trust.

The preaching that Jesus commanded (yes it was a command, not a suggestion) was to "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." (Matthew 28:19-20)

I see only one group consistently doing this work for over 100 years now.....and we believe that it is very close to "the conclusion of the system of things". Just as Noah preached to the people in his day, so Christ's disciples do so in our day. (Matthew 24:37-39)

"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) This is the only "witness" or testimony that people will get. It is no time to stumble over the messengers or to listen to false messengers whom Jesus said to expect.

What is the good news of the Kingdom if it does not bring about the kind of "peace and security" that Jesus promises for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 21:1-4) The Kingdom will mean no more pain, suffering or death and these things are still very much in evidence since your prophet passed away.

Christ's 'manifestation' is not his "parousia" (presence)....when we see Christ again, it will be with an army of angels to judge the world and to separate the "sheep from the goats". (Matthew 25:31-34) It will follow the great tribulation as a climax to the reason why God has allowed satan to rule the world all this time.

Jesus, by means of his Kingdom will bring everything back to the paradise conditions humans once enjoyed in Eden. That was, after all, his first purpose....it will not go unfulfilled. (Isaiah 55:11)

 

[Trailblazer]

First, how are those questions complaining?

Not in this post, but in most of your other posts you are complaining about the Baha’is, criticizing them. I do not have the time or the interest in going back through all your posts to point that out. You are very sarcastic. If some other Baha’is want to lay down for that and turn the other cheek fine, but I won’t. I will call you out on it.

Second, what fuel? You mean how at some point Baha'is have no answers?

No, that is not what I meant. I meant that the more you attack the Baha’i Faith the more the Baha’is respond and keep the fire burning. That is how the Faith grows, because it brings it to the attention of true seekers.

The Baha’i Faith has all the answers humanity needs in this age. I can answer anything you want but I refuse to answer the same things over and over and over and over and over againjust to have you come back with your negative assessments of the Baha’i Faith. And you are not asking about the Baha’i Faith, you are trying to get the Baha’i Faith to fit into the NT, but new wine does not fit into old wine sacs.

One cannot make a newer religion like the Baha’i Faith *fit* into the same mold as the older religions such as Judaism or Christianity because Baha'i is a much more expansive revelation and has many more components that the older religions did not have; so Baha’i cannot be made to fit into the Bible mold.

Luke 5:37-38 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.”

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

What is the point? I get it, I know what you think about the Baha’is and the Baha’i Faith. You do not need to repeat it over and over and over again; and yes, I could easily prove that is what you have done, if I had the time and the interest.

Third, logic and psychology? What are you talking about? I've heard your logic. Unfortunately, it is the Baha'i version of Christian Fundamentalism. You are right no matter what because Baha'u'llah said so. So there.

You have a right to your negative opinion about the Baha’i Faith. Obviously you have a lot of company here, but what people believe does not prove one single thing. Baha’u’llah was either who He claimed to be or He was a false prophet. Those are the only logical possibilities. Everyone has to decide which one to believe.

This is not about ME, so why do you make it personal? Yes, *I believe* that whatever Baha’u’llah wrote is the truth from God because whatever Baha’u’llah wrote is identical with the Will of God, according to Baha’u’llah.

“He is a true believer in Divine unity who, far from confusing duality with oneness, refuseth to allow any notion of multiplicity to becloud his conception of the singleness of God, who will regard the Divine Being as One Who, by His very nature, transcendeth the limitations of numbers.

The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 166-167

What is this truth about God you're alluding to? Your truth? The Baha'i truth?

No, it is whatever the truth about God is. I just happen to believe it is the Baha’i Faith but I was not implying YOU should believe that. Baha’u’llah wrote that the faith of no man can be conditioned by anyone except Himself.

No, the fine details don't add up... like progressive revelation and the fulfillment of prophecy. Hinduism and Buddhism didn't progress into Judaism and Christianity and then into Islam and the Baha'i Faith. I've asked about the rebellion and the man of lawlessness that is to come before the return of Christ. That should be easy. Who was he and what was this rebellion?

If you want to get caught up in the details and they do not add up for you, fine. Nobody is telling you what to believe. I only speak about what I believe.

You can say that because of some details that do not add up for you the Baha’i Faith is not true, but no matter how many times the Baha’is try to explain what those details mean you will just argue that it still does not add up. So what is the point?

 

[Trailblazer]

You act as if what liberal theologians say is somehow true.

I do not know if it is true but IT DOES NOT MATTER. The body of Jesus did not rise from the grave and come back to life after three days. There is absolutely no proof of that, it is just stories men wrote. If people want to believe them it’s their own business but please do not bring it up again.

It all means the same thing. They, Baha'is and atheists question a literal interpretation of the Bible. So do I. But the worst interpretation of them all for me is Abdul Baha's interpretation of the resurrection in Some Answered Questions...

Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.

No, Imo, the worst interpretation is that the body of a man rose from the grave after being dead for three days.

You have a right to your opinion but we already know what it is. I do not care much for that interpretation either but it is a helluva lot more rational than believing that Jesus rose from the dead after three days, after His body would have been decomposed.... C’mon, gimmie a break. There is nothing more ridiculous, NOTHING. It is just stories men wrote; nothing more, nothing less.

Like I always say... call it myth, a lie, or a total fabrication, but really? Four gospels telling a story about the resurrection and appearing of Jesus and this is the "true" meaning of those verses? For all the great things that Baha'is believe in, when it comes to explanations like this, it really makes me doubt the truth of the Baha'i Faith.

If Abdu’l-Baha’s explanation of the resurrection is enough to make you doubt the truth of the Baha’i Faith you are very illogical, and these is not much that can be done about that. Of course there are many other things you disagree with as well, so why are you still undecided? If, after 50 years you are still undecided why not just close up shop and go home?

And then how blindly the Baha'is follow it all... without question. Do you believe this? Do you believe everything that the Baha'is Faith teaches? Oh, you're Miss Logical and Miss Psychology, so everything in the Baha'i Faith makes logical sense to you? No doubt? No questions? No cognitive dissonance?

I have had 49 years to work through any questions I might have had. There is nothing blind about that. Yes, everything in the Baha’i Faith makes logical sense to me.

Actually, I do believe all of it because it is a package deal. One either accepts all of it or none of it. It is ONLY ego that gets in the way ---- “I know better.” I am sorry if you cannot understand that.

 

[wizanda]

It doesn't say what you want to say though.

As the fulfilment of its prophesies before the Great Tribulation, unfortunately I prove what it is saying, and the Source of reality told me this before I read any of the books.

In my opinion.