What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[loverofhumanity]

The reason Christians missed the Second Coming is because they did not watch and pray as Christ instructed but from their limited understanding of the Bible decided that He hadn’t returned and closed their minds and hearts to Him when He appeared in great Glory.

Also they followed their leaders like the Jews followed the Pharisees and Sadducees so were misled. Now the Day of God has dawned and Christians have been left behind And like the Jews are saying He hasn’t come yet.

They have misread the signs just like the Jewish people so are deprived of His infinite grace while others who were not Christians saw Him when He appeared.

When He appeared in the Glory of the Father He was treated just like the Jews treated Christ when He first appeared and so those who were not in the Kingdom have entered it while Christians remain tarrying at the gate.

It seems that just as Christ didn’t meet the expectations of the Jews when He first appeared, He has been rejected when He appeared again because He hasn’t met expectations of Christians despite the warning to watch and pray.

These are some of His Words addresses to Christians.

Say, O followers of the Son! Have ye shut out yourselves from Me by reason of My Name? Wherefore ponder ye not in your hearts? Day and night ye have been calling upon your Lord, the Omnipotent, but when He came from the heaven of eternity in His great glory, ye turned aside from Him and remained sunk in heedlessness.

Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit verily standeth before them. Wherefore keep ye afar from Him Who hath purposed to draw you nigh unto a Resplendent Spot? Say: We, in truth, have opened unto you the gates of the Kingdom. Will ye bar the doors of your houses in My face? This indeed is naught but a grievous error. He, verily, hath again come down from heaven, even as He came down from it the first time. Beware lest ye dispute that which He proclaimeth, even as the people before you disputed His utterances. Thus instructeth you the True One, could ye but perceive it.

Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass.

Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

Some know Us and bear witness, while the majority bear witness, yet know Us not.

Tablet to the Christians

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 9-17

 

[wizanda]

Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth.

The Gospel of John is made up on purpose to test who is false, the idea Baha'u'llah quoted it means he can not be Yeshua, he didn't know his own prophecies.

Day and night ye have been calling upon your Lord, the Omnipotent, but when He came from the heaven of eternity in His great glory, ye turned aside from Him and remained sunk in heedlessness.

Baha'u'llah is claiming to be God, the person people pray to, this is creating a form of idolatry.

Thus this clearly can not be the second coming, as the Messiah wouldn't dream to declare himself to be God in the temple of God.

God (EL) is the Source of our reality, Elohim are the Divine Council who interact with mankind.

Never would any Elohim take the place of EL, as it is physically impossible, the Source is beyond form, and is all of us, it resides in the state of ultimate 0neness beyond quantum reality.

Reality is like being in a universal quantum computer where the CPU is God, and the beings it manifests in the Matrix are aspects of its creation.

A being in Heaven that claims its self as "I Am" falls down to here, and then to claim yourself to be God down near Hell, means we've misunderstood what many of the religious texts say.

In my opinion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Gospel of John is made up on purpose to test who is false, the idea Baha'u'llah quoted it means he can not be Yeshua, he didn't know his own prophecies.

Baha'u'llah is claiming to be God, the person people pray to, this is creating a form of idolatry.

Thus this clearly can not be the second coming, as the Messiah wouldn't dream to declare himself to be God in the temple of God.

God (EL) is the Source of our reality, Elohim are the Divine Council who interact with mankind.

Never would any Elohim take the place of EL, as it is physically impossible, the Source is beyond form, and is all of us, it resides in the state of ultimate 0neness beyond quantum reality.

Reality is like being in a universal quantum computer where the CPU is God, and the beings it manifests in the Matrix are aspects of its creation.

A being in Heaven that claims its self as "I Am" falls down to here, and then to claim yourself to be God down near Hell, means we've misunderstood what many of the religious texts say.

In my opinion.

Judges.

Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors.(Baha’u’llah)

 

[firedragon]

As the fulfilment of its prophesies before the Great Tribulation, unfortunately I prove what it is saying, and the Source of reality told me this before I read any of the books.

In my opinion.

Well, youre wrong. There is nothing in the Quran about the return of Jesus. Your personal beliefs and you speaking to God directly is not relevant to that statement.

 

[CG Didymus]

In observing people in 'debates' it always amazes me that each side will suggest that the other needs to do more research. Don't you find something rather odd about that? From the neutral perspective, it most certainly seems odd. I have no idea whose research has been deeper, or more accurate. It is just so rare for someone to say, "Hmmm, maybe I need to do more research." The assumption is always that it's the other guy who needs to. Folly.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I was doing some research.

 

[Trailblazer]

loverofhumanity said: Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth.

Wizanda said: The Gospel of John is made up on purpose to test who is false,

Clearly, that is just a personal opinion. We all have those.

You are saying that all Christians believe in a false Gospel, but you have no authority to make such a determination.

loverofhumanity said: Day and night ye have been calling upon your Lord, the Omnipotent, but when He came from the heaven of eternity in His great glory, ye turned aside from Him and remained sunk in heedlessness.

Wizanda said: Baha'u'llah is claiming to be God, the person people pray to, this is creating a form of idolatry.

Thus this clearly can not be the second coming, as the Messiah wouldn't dream to declare himself to be God in the temple of God.

Baha’u’llah was not claiming to be God in that passage.

“but when He came from the heaven of eternity in His great glory” Baha’u’llah means when God manifested Himself, not that God incarnated Himself. Baha’u’llah clearly wrote that God cannot become a man:

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49”

Baha’u’llah adamantly denied the accusation hurled at Him that He claimed to be God:

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

 

[CG Didymus]

In observing people in 'debates' it always amazes me that each side will suggest that the other needs to do more research. Don't you find something rather odd about that? From the neutral perspective, it most certainly seems odd. I have no idea whose research has been deeper, or more accurate. It is just so rare for someone to say, "Hmmm, maybe I need to do more research." The assumption is always that it's the other guy who needs to. Folly.

All the Faiths are linked and part of one evolving process. The only division is in the minds of men. Different Teachers focused on different lessons we needed to learn. With Jesus it was love, with Buddha - mindfulness, with Muhammad - nationhood and with Baha’u’llah world unity. They each compliment each other. We need love and mindfulness and love for country and humanity. But could Jesus have taught world citizenship in His Day? When the world hadn’t been fully discovered? So that was left to Baha’u’llah.

None of this is confusing to me because I have done extensive research which it appears you need to do.

In a proper debate both sides are supposed to research the topic thoroughly so as to be well informed.

When people criticise me about a topic I have thoroughly studied I know by their reply that they have done no research so suggest they do more research so we can have an informed discussion.

Oops, I was supposed to be researching Buddha and his focus on mindfulness? And Muhammad focused on nationhood? And I was debating him about those things? I guess I wasn't very mindful.

At least Loverofhumanity isn't blasting me as bad as Trailblazer. "Do you ever get tired of complaining about the Baha’is? I guess not... I guess psychology and logic were not your best subjects in school." Ouch. Then she said, "... you are very illogical... why not just close up shop and go home?" All that hurts, but then she said, "You are very sarcastic." What? Where is she getting them from? I think she's mad because I compared her to a Baha'i version of a Christian Fundamentalist.

I glad you stopped by the thread. It's always good to hear from you.

 

[Trailblazer]

At least Loverofhumanity isn't blasting me as bad as Trailblazer. "Do you ever get tired of complaining about the Baha’is? I guess not... I guess psychology and logic were not your best subjects in school." Ouch. Then she said, "... you are very illogical... why not just close up shop and go home?" All that hurts, but then she said, "You are very sarcastic." What? Where is she getting them from? I think she's mad because I compared her to a Baha'i version of a Christian Fundamentalist.

I am sorry for blasting you but I call things as I see them. To be fair, you would have to admit you have been blasting the Baha'i Faith and the Baha'is a lot more than I ever blasted you. If you cannot see that I cannot make you see it.

I should not ever get involved on threads that are related to religion, especially Christianity, because I have a very low tolerance for many Christian beliefs and right now I have a lot of serious health problems and other ongoing stresses in my life, so I have had to cut way back on posting forums. I should stick with posting only to atheists because I do not seem to have these problems with them.

 

[CG Didymus]

I can answer anything you want

No you can't and you don't. For example... Why is 666 supposedly a date for 661 AD when in context it has nothing to do with the date of the first Umayyad leader?

You can say that because of some details that do not add up for you the Baha’i Faith is not true

So do all details make sense to you? No questions? No doubts? Or, do you take it for granted that all things said in the Baha'i Writings are true?

I do not know if it is true but IT DOES NOT MATTER. The body of Jesus did not rise from the grave and come back to life after three days. There is absolutely no proof of that, it is just stories men wrote. If people want to believe them it’s their own business but please do not bring it up again.

Do Baha'is contradict what the NT says? Yes. Have Baha'is given a satisfactory answer? No. I disagree with Abdul Baha's interpretation. He's supposed to be infallible? Do you believe his answer? Do you think his interpretation makes sense with what the gospel stories say?

No, Imo, the worst interpretation is that the body of a man rose from the grave after being dead for three days.

Why do you call it an "interpretation"? It's what the gospel stories say. They were not meant to be literal? The events never actually happened? Then fine. The gospels are lies. Is that what you are saying? So let's see if you can answer anything I want.

 

[CG Didymus]

I have a very low tolerance for many Christian beliefs and right now

Don't we all. But, it is what their Holy Book says. If it's not true and accurate then what good is it? If Jesus didn't rise from the grave, traditional Christian beliefs are false. Since the early Christians held those beliefs, those false beliefs, then Christianity was never right. And only made worse when the Church leaders interpreted them to make Jesus part of a Trinitarian Godhead. If Christianity is false then why is it part of the progression of God's messages? It is not God's message. It was the followers of Jesus' message... and they got it wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

No you can't and you don't. For example... Why is 666 supposedly a date for 661 AD when in context it has nothing to do with the date of the first Umayyad leader?

I cannot answer ANYTHING you want because I do not know EVERYTHING. Why do you think that is so important? These details do not matter to me because they are not proof of the Baha'i Faith.

So do all details make sense to you? No questions? No doubts? Or, do you take it for granted that all things said in the Baha'i Writings are true?

I already told you the Baha'i Faith make sense to me and I have no doubts. I do not care about every little detail. There are going to be things we do not know or understand. Because I am faithful to the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, I believe everything in the Baha'i Writings is true.

Do Baha'is contradict what the NT says? Yes. Have Baha'is given a satisfactory answer? No. I disagree with Abdul Baha's interpretation. He's supposed to be infallible? Do you believe his answer? Do you think his interpretation makes sense with what the gospel stories say?

The Baha'is do not contradict what is in the NT, we just do not believe the stories are true stories. I do not care how it was written. Stories are written to be convincing and sound real but that does not mean they are true stories. I accept Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation because I am a Baha'i. Moreover, I am sure he knew more than me.

I understand that the answers the Baha'is have given you are unsatisfactory but you are not going to get any different answers because that is what Baha'is believe.

Why do you call it an "interpretation"? It's what the gospel stories say. They were not meant to be literal? The events never actually happened? Then fine. The gospels are lies. Is that what you are saying? So let's see if you can answer anything I want.

You already know what I believe, so why ask again? The stories are stories. I think there was an agenda that was being promoted by the gospel writers, but there is no way I could ever prove that. LIKEWISE, there is no way anyone could EVER prove that Jesus rose from the dead. A story is just a story and the dead giveaway is that the different gospels do not all tell the same story. On my forum, a Christian who is debating with an atheist finally admitted that the stories are different in the different gospels.

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't we all.

Don't we all what?

But, it is what their Holy Book says. If it's not true and accurate then what good is it? If Jesus didn't rise from the grave, traditional Christian beliefs are false. Since the early Christians held those beliefs, those false beliefs, then Christianity was never right. And only made worse when the Church leaders interpreted them to make Jesus part of a Trinitarian Godhead.

If the Christians had stopped at the cross sacrifice the religion would have been a true religion, but after they added the resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus and turned Jesus into God they changed the Christianity of Jesus into a completely different religion.

If Christianity is false then why is it part of the progression of God's messages? It is not God's message. It was the followers of Jesus' message... and they got it wrong.

What Christians did to Jesus' message has nothing to do with whether Jesus was a Manifestation of God or not.
Do you understand that?

Christ and Baha'u'llah, Chapter Four: THE FALSE PROPHETS

 

[wizanda]

There is nothing in the Quran about the return of Jesus.

Most Muslim scholarship disagrees with you.

43:60-61 And if We please, We could make among you angels to be successors in the land. And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.

Often this verse is translated with Yeshua included, as they see it in prior verses, and in the Hadiths, so it is assumed it says Yeshua is coming, when it says angels (مَّلَائِكَةً).

Which means prophetically the Lord's Messiah comes with his Angels at Judgement day; what we need to take into account is John the Baptist was Elijah the Angel (Matthew 11:10-11), Yeshua was the Lord's Angel (Malachi 4:4-6), yet these came as humans... The word Angel, implies a messenger from God; with the word King (מלך) and Angel (מלאך) being one letter different in Hebrew.

4:159: And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.

The return of Christ is clearly stated at the Day of Resurrection, which means if I've been resurrected there are other angels here on earth as well before Armageddon.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

If the Christians had stopped at the cross sacrifice the religion would have been a true religion

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased Yahavah to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer, when you make his soul an offering for sin. He will see his offspring, he will prolong his days, and Yahavah’s pleasure will prosper in his hand.

Christianity teaching sacrifice after is the bit that is evil according to the Bible... God can forgive sin simply by us asking for repentance (Matthew 9:13).

but after they added the resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus and turned Jesus into God

They didn't add these things after, Yeshua stated he would resurrect, as did the prophets, and that he would return just before the Messianic Age to remove the idols from the land.

Baha'u'llah established himself as an idol, claiming he was a continuation of a God manifesting himself, rather than a prophetic line of Kings that are guided by the Source.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

You are saying that all Christians believe in a false Gospel, but you have no authority to make such a determination.

Are you kidding me: the texts it self shows categorically that the Synoptic Gospels do not align with the Gospel of John by over 30+ contradictions in testimony...

Regardless of who I am we should show it with the texts; yet if we include my level of authority, as the Archangel - Sandalphon in Judaism with the new name of Christ - Sananda (Revelation 3:12), my name being the same as Zeus (Zan), Ahura Mazda, etc.... Then my authority is the highest in Heaven.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God

Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God

The problem is Baha'u'llah was not guided by the Source of reality, else he wouldn't have overstepped certain prophecies into a Snare in the text, and made himself into the father of Yeshua.

Therefore by definition of the place Baha'u'llah claimed himself, the prophecies he overwrote, he has put Baha'is on the road to Hell by leading them the wrong way - sorry.

Yeshua did not come as a sin sacrifice, I'm appalled you don't recognize this is morally wrong; God sent him to teach the knowledge of God, and he was murdered by the Leaders, proving we should trust what God's messengers have left us with, not some religious dictatorship by scholarship.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

Most Muslim scholarship disagrees with you.

43:60-61 And if We please, We could make among you angels to be successors in the land. And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.

Often this verse is translated with Yeshua included, as they see it in prior verses, and in the Hadiths, so it is assumed it says Yeshua is coming, when it says angels (مَّلَائِكَةً).

Which means prophetically the Lord's Messiah comes with his Angels at Judgement day; what we need to take into account is John the Baptist was Elijah the Angel (Matthew 11:10-11), Yeshua was the Lord's Angel (Malachi 4:4-6), yet these came as humans... The word Angel, implies a messenger from God; with the word King (מלך) and Angel (מלאך) being one letter different in Hebrew.

4:159: And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.

The return of Christ is clearly stated at the Day of Resurrection, which means if I've been resurrected there are other angels here on earth as well before Armageddon.

In my opinion.

Nope. that does not say Jesus is coming back.

Muslim scholarship disagrees with you immensely, especially with your proclamation that you speak to God. So its not expedient to say "they dont agree with you" which is the logical fallacy of "appealing to authority" and also "genetic fallacy".

So analyse and quote language. Also, quoting the Bible for a statement about the Quran is irrelevant. But thanks.

 

[wizanda]

Nope. that does not say Jesus is coming back.

We're not in a pantomime; please show logical evidence to make a case why it doesn't...

We can show numerous websites substantiating this appraisal of Muslim ideologies.

Muslim scholarship disagrees with you immensely, especially with your proclamation that you speak to God.

God only speaks through Messengers, therefore as God's objectively provable Messiah; there is no reason in Islam that God does not guide the Messiah.

logical fallacy

I wish for the love of God, that people before studying logical errors, would study logical rules of reasoning; it is like we need to teach basics of maths, so people can clearly make sums.

Also, quoting the Bible for a statement about the Quran is irrelevant.

A Muslim by definition doesn't make distinction between the religious texts (2:285); a Muhammadan only follows Muhammad like some cult, and thus ignores the message within all of the religious texts as One.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

We're not in a pantomime; please show logical evidence to make a case why it doesn't...

We can show numerous websites substantiating this appraisal of Muslim ideologies.

God only speaks through Messengers, therefore as God's objectively provable Messiah; there is no reason in Islam that God does not guide the Messiah.

I wish for the love of God, that people before studying logical errors, would study logical rules of reasoning; it is like we need to teach basics of maths, so people can clearly make sums.

A Muslim by definition doesn't make distinction between the religious texts (2:285); a Muhammadan only follows Muhammad like some cult, and thus ignores the message within all of the religious texts as One.

In my opinion.

When something doesn't exist inn the Quran, you cannot prove it doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist.

And your name calling, muhammadan, cult, ignorance, all of that is just ad hominem. Thanks, but they're not analysis or evidence.

Tell me brother, what does thawaffaika mean in arabic? You claim to speak to God right so you should know this. If understand this, you will understand something about your claim and the Quran.

 

[wizanda]

When something doesn't exist inn the Quran, you cannot prove it doesn't exist.

Second Coming - Wikipedia

muhammadan

It is not an insult, it is a definition; sorry I shouldn't say like some cult, yet even a cult wasn't meant as an insult, yet as a definition as well.

If you're to reject the concept in the Quran, and deny the Bible; I will state you as not a Muslim, as I know of scholarly Muslims who would be embarrassed by your statements.

Tell me brother, what does thawaffaika mean in arabic? You claim to speak to God right so you should know this.

I do not speak every language, I've got to look them up; God has inspired me to know certain things, like he has done with all prophets before.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

Second Coming - Wikipedia

It is not an insult, it is a definition; sorry I shouldn't say like some cult, yet even a cult wasn't meant as an insult, yet as a definition as well.

If you're to reject the concept in the Quran, and deny the Bible; I will state you as not a Muslim, as I know of scholarly Muslims who would be embarrassed by your statements.

I do not speak every language, I've got to look them up; God has inspired me to know certain things, like he has done with all prophets before.

In my opinion.

Muthawaffaika means end of life. Death. This is what Quran says happened to Jesus. And you saying I am not a Muslim etc etc are again ad hominem, not relevant. Just cheap tricks.

Quran does not say Jesus is coming back. Nowhere. Your verse in the wikipedia link has a lot of brackets. Interpolation. Not good. It doesn't say what you want to say.