What would be evidence that God exists?

[Unveiled Artist]

That is easy to answer. The spiritual truths in the Bible are eternal and they are the same as what Baha'u'llah and all the Prophets of old revealed, as He said here:

Preamble

HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 3

For example, look at the similarity between what Jesus said and what Baha'u'llah said:

Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

“For every one of you his paramount duty is to choose for himself that on which no other may infringe and none usurp from him. Such a thing—and to this the Almighty is My witness—is the love of God, could ye but perceive it.

Build ye for yourselves such houses as the rain and floods can never destroy, which shall protect you from the changes and chances of this life. This is the instruction of Him Whom the world hath wronged and forsaken.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 261

Didnt you say you didn't read the bible?

One end you said (sorry, can't quote) that the bible is irrelevant to you in relationship with bahaullah's writings, then on the other end you quote it as if it stood on its own. Wouldn't it be better to stick with bahaullah's writings?

When you use the bible to those who aren't bahai, they get conflicting messages to those who see contradiction when comparing their teachings and bahai.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Convince me.

That is your path to choose, not ours to give.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Didnt you say you didn't read the bible?

One end you said (sorry, can't quote) that the bible is irrelevant to you in relationship with bahaullah's writings, then on the other end you quote it as if it stood on its own. Wouldn't it be better to stick with bahaullah's writings?

When you use the bible to those who aren't bahai, they get conflicting messages to those who see contradiction when comparing their teachings and bahai.

That is a good observation.

It can be seen in the Message of Jesus the Christ.

Jesus as the Christ gave the New Testament and in reality it is the New Testament, the New Covernant that was needed in the age of Christianity, the Old Testament is fulfilled in the New.

Thus a Christian can live their life immersed in the New Testament, but will also still embrace aspects of the Old, as some aspects do not change.

Thus as a Baha'i, we see that Baha'u'llah gave a New Covernant and in embracing that New Covernant, we accept all the aspects of the old Covernants, that are the unchanging part of God's Eternal Covernant and acknowledge the aspects that are no longer valid.

To me, the history of Faith shows this happens with all Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Don't you know what the Christians say? We are all sinners.

That is in the Baha'i Long Obligatory Prayer, so you see, Baha'is agree with the Christians.

Thou seest, O my Lord, this wretched creature knocking at the door of Thy grace, and this evanescent soul seeking the river of everlasting life from the hands of Thy bounty.

O God, my God! My back is bowed by the burden of my sins, and my heedlessness hath destroyed me. Whenever I ponder my evil doings and Thy benevolence, my heart melteth within me, and my blood boileth in my veins.

By Thy might! My trespasses have kept me back from drawing nigh unto Thee; and my sins have held me far from the court of Thy holiness. Thy love, O my Lord, hath enriched me, and separation from Thee hath destroyed me, and remoteness from Thee hath consumed me.

These are just excerpts. The entire prayer can be read here: Long Obligatory Prayer

That prayer has been my rock

 

[Nimos]

Death penalty is lawful and the penalty of death can be given, two laws to which it can be given, you have posted.

In this age, those laws seem harsh, in the age they were given there is a just wisdom to implement them. There would be many scholarly articles available to explain this to any person interested.

I am sure if you asked a Jew, they could explain how to use those laws in justice and how they were used.

You did read that the laws was about parents having the right to kill their children and that it was about slavery, right?

Anyway, you don't see how people could become slightly confused in regards to the rest of the story?

 

[Nimos]

Guidance has been given by Baha'u'llah. The past is gone. Why do people keep talking about it?

I don't know, maybe because it makes no sense?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Don't you know what the Christians say? We are all sinners.

That is in the Baha'i Long Obligatory Prayer, so you see, Baha'is agree with the Christians.

Thou seest, O my Lord, this wretched creature knocking at the door of Thy grace, and this evanescent soul seeking the river of everlasting life from the hands of Thy bounty.

O God, my God! My back is bowed by the burden of my sins, and my heedlessness hath destroyed me. Whenever I ponder my evil doings and Thy benevolence, my heart melteth within me, and my blood boileth in my veins.

By Thy might! My trespasses have kept me back from drawing nigh unto Thee; and my sins have held me far from the court of Thy holiness. Thy love, O my Lord, hath enriched me, and separation from Thee hath destroyed me, and remoteness from Thee hath consumed me.

These are just excerpts. The entire prayer can be read here: Long Obligatory Prayer

That prayer has been my rock, my solace.

I was a Baha'i from 1984 to 2014 before I fist said it.

I do not now know why, but then reality hits home, even though we can reach a state where our heart is naught but prayer, this world makes that very difficult.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

That is your path to choose, not ours to give.

Regards Tony

I am not the one demanding proof. Tell it to Trailblazer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's one definition that could apply to Baha'is too. "Clergy are formal leaders within established religions. Their roles and functions vary in different religious traditions, but usually involve presiding over specific rituals and teaching their religion's doctrines and practices."

But, with Baha'i leaders they all work for free? Even the UHJ? So they do their UHJ business that have a day job in town? How about traveling teachers? They don't get some money to support their teaching efforts?

Sometimes the Baha'i Fund helps to pay for expenses of traveling teachers.
The UHJ members get a stipend to support them while they are in session.

Re: Paid functions in the Faith

Post by brettz9 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:59 pm

Hi Nowis,

IIRC, those who serve at the World Centre are offered a stipend but many do not even take or use it, though of course their basic needs are met.

As far as the National Spiritual Assembly in the U.S., my understanding is that the secretary and possibly now one or two other members whose duties are full-time, are compensated comparably to those in a similar organization or business.

Hopefully someone else can provide a more precise answer.

I think a few items may be helpful here:

1. There are no permanent paid teachers of the Baha'i Faith.
2. We do not solicit or even accept contributions from non-members (unless the contribution is for charity to member the public, and even then, I had heard that the institutions are not supposed to be publicizing this or doing this very actively).
3. Our representatives are elected regularly by the mass of its believers.

Best wishes,
Brett

Paid functions in the Faith - Baha'i Library Forum

In the future, when in a city there might be thousands of Baha'is, there will be no paid people to do the work of running the affairs of the Baha'is in that city? Or, there will be lots of paid staff, but the actual elected leaders won't get paid? And they will have enough time to work a paying job and do their Baha'i duties? Oh, and the travel expenses weren't paid for a Hand of the Cause to go give a speech somewhere?

I do not know about the future, but there are Baha'is who work in National Bahá'í Administrative offices who get paid, and these are advertised and paid full time positions. As I understand it, some of the money Baha'is contribute to the Fund is used to pay these people.

OPEN POSITIONS with the Bahá’í National Organization

https://www.divinegemsvirtues.com/uploads/6/1/4/8/61489781/1-12-17_jobs_poster_2017.pdf

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You did read that the laws was about parents having the right to kill their children and that it was about slavery, right?

Anyway, you don't see how people could become slightly confused in regards to the rest of the story?

I see people can become confused, as what is it we are after from these stories?

I would ask, as these are for our spiritual understanding, what is it we are reading into the story, instead of what are we tying to get spiritually from the story?

A lot of these I have not had to think about, as Baha'u'llah offered all the Essence of all the past spiritual scriptures in a small book of meditations.

Thus, to me, all those stories, all the essence of meaning is now in this book.

The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Aah, because there is so much confusion between the different religions and within each religion.

Why would that matter? NEW Guidance has been given by God for this age so people can look at that NEW Guidance.

That NEW Guidance straightens out the confusion and explains why we have it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the future, when in a city there might be thousands of Baha'is, there will be no paid people to do the work of running the affairs of the Baha'is in that city? Or, there will be lots of paid staff, but the actual elected leaders won't get paid? And they will have enough time to work a paying job and do their Baha'i duties? Oh, and the travel expenses weren't paid for a Hand of the Cause to go give a speech somewhere?

It's a material world CG, this really does not need explanation.

I have worked on a Local Council for 30 years. All my pay has come from the rates the residents pay, or government funded through taxes.

This will not change. The Spirit in which we give these funds will change. The majority will choose to give as much as they can for the good of all.

Taxes will cover the needs of society as a whole.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, it's just the rest that is BS.

No the rest is not BS, it is simply outdated, so it needed to be modified and altered.

“These foundations of the Religion of God, which are spiritual and which are the virtues of humanity, cannot be abrogated; they are irremovable and eternal, and are renewed in the cycle of every Prophet.

The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, p. 48

 

[Nimos]

Well, I hate to argue religion. And actually I don't, but you're the one that is wrong. You have made a claim that something will happen in 2035... prove it. Yeah, what proof do you have? My religion says it will happen in 2034 which makes so much more sense, because the way things are going, it is bound to happen in fourteen years, not in fifteen as you claim.

Fourteen? Really? You must be kidding...

Look if this is not evidence, I don't know what is!!!

Does it say 14? no, it say 15, you might think it's just a coincident, but look its an "Angel" number, and what is an angel? Divine exactly... And my scripture said divine as well. And it even talks about "positive and transformative change in your life" = "That a new and divine mankind will rise".

I think, ill rest my case!!

 

[Trailblazer]

It's confusing. We have all the religions of other cultures that we never even include as being real or being from one true God. We have the multiple beliefs of Hinduism that have many Gods and many incarnations of Gods. Buddhism, I don't know.

We also have very old cars in the used car lot and cars that no longer run in the junkyard, but nobody seems to be confused by those cars..... They do not think about those old cars, they just go down to the dealership and buy a new car.

 

[Nimos]

I see people can become confused, as what is it we are after from these stories?

I would ask, as these are for our spiritual understanding, what is it we are reading into the story, instead of what are we tying to get spiritually from the story?

This were the law... it weren't just some spiritual thinking about what it could mean kind of thing, you have laws for a lot of things... in fact you can find 613 laws about how and what you should and shouldn't do.

I agree, that today it is more of a spiritual thing, trying to figure out what they could have meant when they wrote "slave forever"?

 

[Trailblazer]

If we look, closely, at the Baha'i communities, will we find an example of peace and unity?

I think that of we look at the overall picture that is what we will find but if we look at all the details we might miss the overall picture.

 

[Trailblazer]

Didnt you say you didn't read the bible?

I meant I never read the whole Bible, only parts of it.

One end you said (sorry, can't quote) that the bible is irrelevant to you in relationship with bahaullah's writings, then on the other end you quote it as if it stood on its own. Wouldn't it be better to stick with bahaullah's writings?

When you use the bible to those who aren't bahai, they get conflicting messages to those who see contradiction when comparing their teachings and bahai.

Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes I cannot help myself because there were so many good verses in the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

That prayer has been my rock

It is also my husband's rock.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know, maybe because it makes no sense?

What makes no sense?