ppp
Well-Known Member
That different "kinds"appeared on different "days"
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What would it mean to your religious beliefs if evolution were true?
stanberger
Active Member
English please
ppp
Well-Known Member
Your lack of fluency is not my problem.
stanberger
Active Member
u=. it is if you want readers to understand your postsYour lack of fluency is not my problem.
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Hi SkepticThinker. Good afternoon. Well it's quite simple really. Whether people realize it or not, what we believe can either destroy our faith in the Bible, or strengthen it. As the scriptures state: "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for." The Bible in no way supports the theory of evolution, as a result, believing in such a theory will destroy one's faith in the Bible. As I wrote in a thread recently called 'Yahshua My Saviour' on the Christianity DIR, Yahshua my Saviour also knew that the Bible stories of the Hebrew Scriptures were true. My Savior when he was on this earth referred to Noah’s Flood (Matthew 24:38), Sodom’s destruction (Matthew 11:23) and Jonah’s account of being in the belly of the great fish (Matthew 12:40) as things that actually happened. Further, his genealogy is traced all the way back to Adam (Luke 3:23-38). Many have the unreasonable attitude that Yahshua existed, and the New Testament can be believed, but the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be.
The Bible identifies creation as being done through Yahweh's majestic power within 6 literal days. You can look at the Hebrew word in the text relating to 'day' and realize that this means a literal 24 hour day. The evidence we have to suggest life is millions of years old is faulty at best and many times the evolutionary timelines conflict against each other with new discoveries pushing back the supposed timelines further backwards than originally thought, even if doing so sharply contradicts views which were considered to be scientific fact. Further, the evidence that shows life on this earth to be young is dismissed.
Take for example a few of these considerations:
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 75. River Sediments (creationscience.com)
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 74. Volcanic Debris (creationscience.com)
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 73. Excess Fluid Pressure (creationscience.com)
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 76. Continental Erosion (creationscience.com)
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 77. Dissolved Metals (creationscience.com)
- In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - 78. Crater Creep (creationscience.com) etc.
What kind of Creator would use a bloody, cruel, inefficient process like evolution (consisting primarily of mistakes) to create. Right after the creation, Yahweh saw all that He had made, and it was“very good.” (Gen 1:31) After the fall, things deteriorated (Gen 3:16–19, Rom 8:18–22) and diversified. We have never seen a new kind of life evolve. (Ex 20:11).
Believing that life took millions of years to evolve, would not be done by a loving Father.
stanberger
Active Member
we trust in god ...quran ' and man was created in stages from the earth ' evolution the tool god used
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Hi Policy. Good afternoon. I'd like to correct you on the point that we are Chr-stians. We are not, although it is easy to see why people would mistake us to being so, after all, we believe in the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, we believe in our Savior Yahshua the Messiah and we believe in Yahweh. We are situated outside of Chr-stianity because Chr-stianity is corrupt with false doctrine. But in terms of interpretation, it's not a matter of interpretation. The word that is used is 'yōm' for day in the Hebrew Scriptures and means "a 24-hour period of time" to which we refer as a literal day. (When speaking prophetically, the Hebrew word has been used abstractly [viz. the day of Yahweh, Zech. 14:1]. When used in the usual [mundane] sense, as it is in the first chapter of Genesis, there can be no question in the mind of anyone that it means anything but a 24-hour period of time.
Therefore, Yahweh created all things around us in 6 literal days. "For this is what Yahweh says— he who created the heavens, he is Elohim; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am Yahweh, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:18)
ppp
Well-Known Member
I apologize for mis-labeling you. However, all reading is interpretation. When you read a text written by someone else you are interpreting what they meant and how that text should be read.
Like I said, if you want to argue that your interpretation is correct or uncorrupt, you need to argue that with those supposedly corrupt believers. I don't believe any of you.
stanberger
Active Member
rabbis reject Jesus call him a false prophet muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of god
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The catholic Pope, and along with him (in principle at least) about a billion catholics, disagree.
The number of christians who actually would agree to that statement of yours, are actually a minority among christians themselves.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Only if one believes that "divine creation" actually means that it was some type of magic where the magician says "abracadabra" and then "poof" - stuff happens.
Off course I say this as an atheist, but why couldn't the process of evolution be the "divine means" by which "divine creation" occurs?
I once watched this debate on evolution between a creationist and a christian biologist.
And even as an atheist, that biologists made quite a sensible argument imo... Off course, the entire debate worked from the assumption / premise that god is real and ultimately responsible for the rise of human kind.
In a nutshell and paraphrasing, it went like this:
Who in your mind would be the greatest engineer?
The one who thinks of a design of a machine and then creates said machine?
Or the one who thinks of a design of a machine and then has that machine create itself through self-assembly?
So the point he was making is that the god who uses evolution to end up with humans is vastly more impressive and intelligent then the one who goes straight to the end product.
Putting myself in theistic shoes for a second, I can only agree to that idea.
That, and off course the fact that thinking about it that way, doesn't require you to ignore / deny an entire branch of science.
Not sure who said it originally, but I love to use this quote:
When your beliefs don't match the evidence of reality.... it's not reality that is incorrect!
stanberger
Active Member
no if's or but's. bible untrue. no worldwide noah flood. no the earth is not a flat circle that does not move. no god did not murder infants in cribs of Egypt [passover]. ...real reasons I left church for islam in 2002. quran says noah floods regional. earth spherical moves in orbit. and no passover plague in its exodus story
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
This is correct if you insist on reading the bible literally.
It is not if one considers those stories as just stories, primarily meant to convey a "moral of the tale" kind of thing. Ever since ancient times, people have been using such stories as learning tools.
Like the story of the race between a turtle and a rabbit that has the turtle winning because the rabbit was arrogant and did all kinds of things during the race that wasn't "running towards the finish", only to show the turtle / audience "I''m so fast and so good at running, I can permit myself to waste all this time" while the turtle focusses on his path.
Obviously, being an atheist, I'm not impressed either way though.
Indeed. Instead, it has Mohammed splitting the moon in two and flying to heaven on a winged horse. So much better and more realistic.
cataway
Well-Known Member
science has already made the claim of evolution, which has done nothing to my belief . some thing that may bother more people would be if ET showed up . myself i have already acknowledged that Jehovah is real and true God . even if there is a ET that does not bother me
stanberger
Active Member
quran 'at the hour the moon will split ' yet to happen ....stay out of hate sites mateThis is correct if you insist on reading the bible literally.
It is not if one considers those stories as just stories, primarily meant to convey a "moral of the tale" kind of thing. Ever since ancient times, people have been using such stories as learning tools.
Like the story of the race between a turtle and a rabbit that has the turtle winning because the rabbit was arrogant and did all kinds of things during the race that wasn't "running towards the finish", only to show the turtle / audience "I''m so fast and so good at running, I can permit myself to waste all this time" while the turtle focusses on his path.
Obviously, being an atheist, I'm not impressed either way though.
Indeed. Instead, it has Mohammed splitting the moon in two and flying to heaven on a winged horse. So much better and more realistic.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
So what do we do when the evidence of reality conflicts with your literal interpretation of the Bible?
I don't know .. the same creator who created this bloody, cruel world we live in, where kids die from cancer?
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stanberger
Active Member
I don't know .. the same creator who created this bloody, cruel world we live in, where kids die from cancer?[/QUOTE]
you have chosen disbelief and now will turn to drugs and alcohol to get through life. I'm a volunteer at aa I see it all the time. as for e and mine we will stay in islam no alcohol. no drugs just that alone is worth being muslim in life
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
you have chosen disbelief and now will turn to drugs and alcohol to get through life. I'm a volunteer at aa I see it all the time. as for e and mine we will stay in islam no alcohol. no drugs just that alone is worth being muslim in life[/QUOTE]
While I don't necessarily see anything wrong with drugs or alcohol, I am not a drug addict, just because I don't believe in God.
My father, on the other hand, was a drug addict and an alcoholic (and also a good, kind person) and guess what else? He was also a Christian. And he thought he was a piece of crap, because that religion told him he was one.
Of course, none of this relates to the point we were discussing.
stanberger
Active Member
While I don't necessarily see anything wrong with drugs or alcohol, I am not a drug addict, just because I don't believe in God.
My father, on the other hand, was a drug addict and an alcoholic (and also a good, kind person) and guess what else? He was also a Christian. And he thought he was a piece of crap, because that religion told him he was one.
Of course, none of this relates to the point we were discussing.[/QUOTE]
' I don't see anything wrong with drugs/alcohol'. you just played yourself
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
1. Evolution is true. Do you think it might not be?
2. The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, or that even suggests evolution. (You keep making these claims about the Quran but fail to back them up when challenged. Let's see if you back this one up.)
3. So the Quran is wrong about Adam being the first human created by Allah.