What would you expect people to do if a real God sent a real Messenger to earth?

[Trailblazer]

I am not going back searching through the thread but you clearly stated Baha’u’llah was a messenger of God. And you still stand by that claim

Baha'u'llah made that claim. I believe that claim...
I have no claims, I stand by my beliefs.
I have no interest in getting caught up in semantics.

 

[Trailblazer]

Absolutely! To quote a Comic Book: With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.

If you believe that God has a moral obligation to reveal the same message He revealed to Baha’u’llah to everyone in the world then you should be able to give me a logical reason why.

WHY is God responsible to reveal the same message He revealed to Baha’u’llah to everyone in the world?
WHY is that God’s responsibility?

So? Under your god's IRRESPONSIBLE system? THEY ARE NEVER GIVEN A CHANCE!

They are not given a chance because the OMNISCIENT GOD already knows that they could never (a) understand or (b) write down the message.

Over 15,000 Tablets – WHY does everyone need to get these in a personal message?

More to the point? WE HAVE YET ANOTHER THING YOUR GOD IS TOO WEAK, OR TOO INEPT, OR TOO DUMB TO ACCOMPLISH: Explain it's ... ahem.... "message".

My God did a darn good job of explaining His message to the messenger, who explained it to everyone else...

I am STILL WAITING for a logical reason why God should reveal the same message Baha’u’llah got to everyone in the world, seems kind of redundant to me.

The only reason I can think of is that people cannot trust Baha’u’llah really got a message, but that is not God’s problem. There is plenty of evidence that people can look at to determine His qualifications.

ABSOLUTELY FALSE-- see above, and THIS CREATES CLASS AMONG PEOPLE.

Evil.

No, God simply sends one messenger in every age because He has the QUALIFICATIONS. Can everyone be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist? No, we all have our own abilities and not all of us can DO what others do. That does not make anyone better than anyone else. We are all just different:

Is a rock the same as a plant? Is a plant the same as an animal? The messengers of God are a different order of creation ABOVE an ordinary human being. These messengers are a Mystery that we are not capable of understanding in full.

Without understanding that the messengers of God are not the SAME as ordinary human beings there is no point discussing this further.

“The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover….” The Promised Day is Come, p. 43

“And of all men, the most accomplished, the most distinguished, and the most excellent are the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth. Nay, all else besides these Manifestations, live by the operation of Their Will, and move and have their being through the outpourings of Their grace.” Gleanings, p. 179

I said: So, unless you can come up with a REASON why God should do this I have to conclude that it is based upon nothing but feelings of “I want.”

You said: See above-- I've given you literally dozens.

No, you have given me no logical reasons why God should send everyone on earth his or her own personal message. WHY is that God’s responsibility?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I agree, although some might extend that to all religious beliefs and consider them to be fantasies. How can anyone know otherwise?

They could do that, or they could look at the religious beliefs in order to determine if they conform to reason or not. Not all religions are the same.

The one key difference is that (according to the story) God spoke directly with Adam, which most (or all) people don't really get to do. People become attached to the material world because that's all they really know.

Although I do not believe the rest of the Adam and Eve story is literally true, I believe that God spoke directly to Adam because Adam was a messenger of God, a Prophet. God does not speak directly to ordinary human beings but that does not mean we cannot know God through what the messengers of God reveal.

Some might also see this as somewhat contradictory. If the material world is a "lower" world than the spiritual world, and if we're supposed to not have any attachments to the material world, then why should the material world even matter at all? Why would murder be considered a sin, if the only real consequence to the murdered victim is that they enter the Kingdom of God and are free from the material world?

The material world is not really bad in and of itself. It is our attachment to the material world that is detrimental to us, because our attachment to it keeps us from our essential spirituality. We are spiritual beings, not material beings. We are our soul, not our body. The reason we are here in the material world is to acquire spiritual qualities, build our character. We need the material world to do that, so it is kind of like a training ground, a preparation for the afterlife, which is a purely spiritual world.

With all due respect, this makes it sound like God has set everyone up in something analogous to a video game. If our true nature is spiritual, then the material world would be viewed as something false or unreal or essentially meaningless. I've heard some argue that the material life is some kind of "test," or maybe it's something equivalent to school. But schoolchildren want to get out of school; they can't wait until they graduate and move on to their "real" life. There is no real attachment afterwards, other than sentimentality and fond memories.

That is true, it is kind of like a video game because compared to the spiritual word this world is not real.

“Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot “fatten nor appease his hunger.”” Gleanings, pp. 328-329

It is also a kind of a test and a school, a place to learn what we need to learn in order to be prepared to enter the spiritual world. The thing is, most people get stuck in the school and attached to it, because it is all they can know with their senses and they cannot believe there is something much more meaningful waiting for them down the road, something much more real.... IF they only knew.....

“Wert thou to consider this world, and realize how fleeting are the things that pertain unto it, thou wouldst choose to tread no path except the path of service to the Cause of thy Lord. None would have the power to deter thee from celebrating His praise, though all men should arise to oppose thee.” Gleanings, p. 314

“Render thanks unto Him Who is the Desire of all worlds for having invested thee with such high honor. Ere long the world and all that is therein shall be as a thing forgotten, and all honor shall belong to the loved ones of thy Lord, the All-Glorious, the Most Bountiful.” Gleanings, p. 306

I would agree that temptation is everywhere, although a lot of sins also originate from fear. People (just like all animals) have a fear of death, among other fears. This seems hard-wired into us - and that's the biggest booby trap of all. Because people know that they will grow old and die, they want to experience as much of life as they can, seeking pleasure and material comfort while waiting for the inevitable

I agree that is what most people do, but don’t you find that rather odd given the fact that most people in the world (about 84%) have a religious belief, and most of those religions have a belief in an afterlife of one kind or another. So you would think that if these people really believed in their religion they would know this is not the end of life, that there is another life after this... You would also think that they would do what their scriptures say if they want to secure a good position in that afterlife, which is for eternity, a lot longer in duration than this fleeting world.

So, the only conclusion I can come to is that they do not really believe what their scriptures say about the glorious afterlife, and certainly not enough to sacrifice what they enjoy in this world. Of course one problem is that the afterlife is not very well defined so we have to take it on faith that it will be glorious. I guess most people lack faith; either that or they think they can have their cake and eat it too. I see that as kind of cheating, but they are trying to win a game they cannot win, since there is an inverse correlation between loving the world and loving God. That does not mean that we cannot enjoy the world, but the more we do that, the less time we have for God and other people. We reap what we sow; the more we put into spiritual growth the more we will have at the end of this mortal life. I am very pragmatic.

However, we can enjoy this world while we are learning what we need to learn, as that is one reason God created it. The world is not harmful unless it comes in between us and God, if we believe in God.

Selfishness is also born of fear, the fear of not having enough to meet one's own needs. In a world where money and resources are in short supply, where there is no such thing as a free lunch, people don't see that they have any other real choice.

That is true to an extent, but that does not explain why some wealthy people are selfish. I think it is more about character than financial position, because many poor people care a lot about others. But I understand what you mean, because making a living can cause one to be very focused on their own needs, to support themselves and a family if they have one. There is not always much left over for other people.

This is the main reason why I generally reject religion, since the religious authorities are the ones whose enormous influence set up and established the political and economic systems in this world. There are so many who come across as abject materialists and money-grubbers.

I can certainly agree with that, but there are important things that people do not generally understand about religion as a process.

All religions go through stages which can be likened to seasons of the year. The first stage is spring... That can be likened to a spiritual springtime which begins after a religion is originally revealed by God to a messenger. God is real to man and it is a living Faith. As time goes on religion goes into its summer season, the peak of its influence; but then it goes into a season of late summer and early fall. During these seasons, theology takes over and there is an intellectual acceptance rather than an inner conviction of God’s truth. Finally, religion goes into a late fall and winter season in which material power becomes the determining factor, and faith in God does not dominate any longer. Only the outward form of the religion remains because the original spirit is gone. People are believers in name only. Religion falls behind the times and it cannot understand nor interpret what is happening in the present world.

This is where the older religions such as Christianity are at today, in the winter season. They no longer represent what was originally revealed in the scriptures; they are religions of man, not God. This is why people are dropping out of Christianity and becoming nonbelievers. Many Christians go to Church but just as a formality, not because they really believe in God.

The Baha’i Faith is new so it is in its spring season. Baha’is who are involved are passionate about their Faith just as in the early days of Christianity. But of course it does not have much influence yet, it is much too new, as it takes a long time to establish a religion and gain many adherents. I believe that will change over time, but it will take a long time, particularly because most religious people are attached to their older religions, thus not even open to looking at a new religion, let alone investigating it seriously.

I find it ironic that the most selfless and spiritually correct political/economic systems are those that were officially atheist.

I guess you are referring to communist political systems. In some ways those were more selfless since they were less materialistic and more equitable, but any system that leaves God out is bound to fail in the end. People need to learn to be unselfish because they choose to, not because they are forced to by a political regime. Without a belief in something higher than self, most people are not going to be unselfish, although I know a certain number of humanists who are less selfish than many believers I know. The fact that they care about others without any hope for a reward in an afterlife says a lot about them as people.

 

[ChristineM]

Baha'u'llah made that claim. I believe that claim...
I have no claims, I stand by my beliefs.
I have no interest in getting caught up in semantics.

So if you are now withdrawing your claim that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of god and instead saying you have faith that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of god because Baha'u'llah said he was a messenger of i can respect that.

 

[Trailblazer]

So if you are now withdrawing your claim that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of god and instead saying you have faith that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of god because Baha'u'llah said he was a messenger of i can respect that.

I know that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of God, I do not claim it.
Baha'u'llah was the one who claimed it that God conferred a message upon Him.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If you believe that God has a moral obligation to reveal the same message He revealed to Baha’u’llah to everyone in the world then you should be able to give me a logical reason why.

WHY is God responsible to reveal the same message He revealed to Baha’u’llah to everyone in the world?
WHY is that God’s responsibility?

They are not given a chance because the OMNISCIENT GOD already knows that they could never (a) understand or (b) write down the message.

Over 15,000 Tablets – WHY does everyone need to get these in a personal message?

My God did a darn good job of explaining His message to the messenger, who explained it to everyone else...

I am STILL WAITING for a logical reason why God should reveal the same message Baha’u’llah got to everyone in the world, seems kind of redundant to me.

The only reason I can think of is that people cannot trust Baha’u’llah really got a message, but that is not God’s problem. There is plenty of evidence that people can look at to determine His qualifications.

No, God simply sends one messenger in every age because He has the QUALIFICATIONS. Can everyone be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist? No, we all have our own abilities and not all of us can DO what others do. That does not make anyone better than anyone else. We are all just different:

Is a rock the same as a plant? Is a plant the same as an animal? The messengers of God are a different order of creation ABOVE an ordinary human being. These messengers are a Mystery that we are not capable of understanding in full.

Without understanding that the messengers of God are not the SAME as ordinary human beings there is no point discussing this further.

“The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover….” The Promised Day is Come, p. 43

“And of all men, the most accomplished, the most distinguished, and the most excellent are the Manifestations of the Sun of Truth. Nay, all else besides these Manifestations, live by the operation of Their Will, and move and have their being through the outpourings of Their grace.” Gleanings, p. 179

No, you have given me no logical reasons why God should send everyone on earth his or her own personal message. WHY is that God’s responsibility?

I gave you a WHY. I'll repeat it again:

With Great Power, Come Great Responsibility.

I also gave you ANOTHER Why. I'll repeat THAT again:

Such a weak and INEPT god, who stoops to using avitars/messengers?

Creates CLASS among the humans-- and that is pure EVIL.

You keep ignoring these two.

 

[Trailblazer]

I said: No, you have given me no logical reasons why God should send everyone on earth his or her own personal message. WHY is that God’s responsibility?

I gave you a WHY. I'll repeat it again:

With Great Power, Come Great Responsibility.

That is not an answer.
Why is it God’s responsibility to send everyone on earth his or her own personal message?

I also gave you ANOTHER Why. I'll repeat THAT again:

Such a weak and INEPT god, who stoops to using avitars/messengers?

Creates CLASS among the humans-- and that is pure EVIL.

You keep ignoring these two.

I am not ignoring them, Bob, I just do not agree with them.

Why is using Messengers considered stooping?

God can communicate any way God wants to communicate but God chooses to use messengers.
How does that make God weak or inept?

That does not create a class among humans because God does not choose any humans over any other humans. Messengers are not humans, they are God-men. They are in a separate class by virtue of their nature, just like a plant is not an animal but its nature. So there is no special class, there is just a different class.

Why can’t you answer me when I ask how every human being in the world could receive and understand everything that Baha’u’llah wrote, all 15,000 Tablets.

Why can’t you answer me when I ask why it is necessary for every human being in the world to get direct communication from God.

Why is it necessary?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That is not an answer.
Why is it God’s responsibility to send everyone on earth his or her own personal message?

Because your god is all-powerful. Because the message is overwhelmingly important (according to you).

To deliberately and with malice, leave large groups of people out?

Is to play Special Favorites-- which is Unfair.

Since this god is all-powerful? That means it's Infinitely Unfair: Evil.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why is using Messengers considered stooping?

It's playing Special Favorites. That elevates the Messengers to Higher Status.

Patently Unfair-- Infinitely Unfair.

Evil.

That's why

 

[Trailblazer]

I said: That is not an answer.
Why is it God’s responsibility to send everyone on earth his or her own personal message?

Because your god is all-powerful. Because the message is overwhelmingly important (according to you).

To deliberately and with malice, leave large groups of people out?

Is to play Special Favorites-- which is Unfair.

Since this god is all-powerful? That means it's Infinitely Unfair: Evil.

The Writings of Baha'u'llah have been published in over 800 languages and they are available to read and download online for free. They are also available in books.

NOBODY is left out even if they cannot read or they are blind.
FREE Baha'i Audio Books

 

[Trailblazer]

It's playing Special Favorites. That elevates the Messengers to Higher Status.

Patently Unfair-- Infinitely Unfair.

Evil.

That's why

I asked why God was stooping.
I said: Why is using Messengers considered stooping?

Messengers are a higher status because they are different from ordinary humans. That is just the way it is.
Are you angry because only one man can be president of a company and not everyone has the same status in that company? That is just not reality. People have certain jobs because of their QUALIFICATIONS for the job.

Not everyone can do the same jobs. It has nothing to do with fairness, it is just reality. I cannot BE a doctor just because I want to be a doctor.

So it is patently unfair that everyone cannot be the president of the United States? Is it evil that we were all created with different capacities?

Why do you think everyone is capable of receiving and understanding a message from God? The fact is they only messengers are capable and anyone else would not even have a clue if God spoke to them, which is one reason God doesn't speak to everyone. Messengers are a protected Source because they are able to receive the message clearly and record it accurately, such that everyone can understand it.

 

[ChristineM]

I know that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of God, I do not claim it.
Baha'u'llah was the one who claimed it that God conferred a message upon Him.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

If you claim to know then we are right back at square one, no evidence but much circular reasoning

I'm not going round and round in circles. The end.

 

[ChristineM]

I asked why God was stooping.
I said: Why is using Messengers considered stooping?

And you got the answer that you chose to ignore, several times. Perhaps because it was not the circular reasoning answer that you seem to require.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I said: That is not an answer.
Why is it God’s responsibility to send everyone on earth his or her own personal message?

The Writings of Baha'u'llah have been published in over 800 languages and they are available to read and download online for free. They are also available in books.

NOBODY is left out even if they cannot read or they are blind.
FREE Baha'i Audio Books

Not good enough. Who is this "baha" dude, and why would I believe HIM?

Why cannot your lazy or weak or incompetent god simply communicate *directly* with *everyone*?

Heck: All Powerful, right?

This "god" of yours could easily transcend Time And Space, and communicate with EVERYONE-- EVER, all a the same instant (with respect to god's point of view). Using time-travel, and what-not? The message is sent to EVERYONE, through out time and space, entering the brains of EVERYONE and EXACTLY the correct moment when they would be the most effective.

That All Knowing attribute.

THE FACT THIS NEVER HAPPENED? PROVES THAT IF YOUR GOD IS REAL, IT DELIBERATELY AND WITH MALICE, DID NOT WISH EVERYONE TO HEAR IT'S MESSAGES.

So, yet ANOTHER proof your god is malicious and evil.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I asked why God was stooping.
I said: Why is using Messengers considered stooping?

Messengers are a higher status because they are different from ordinary humans. That is just the way it is.

Aaaaand we are back to Might Makes Right-- which is a failed moral stance.

Your statement above, simply says "god can do it how he likes" --- yes, but that does not mean it is FAIR or GOOD.

Higher Status People is UNFAIR. Therefore? Your god is evil.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Could Baha'ullah create a bird from dust , because according to Al Qur'aan Al A'zhiim : Al Nabi Al 'Iisa AS could create a bird from dust .

But why? Why are miracles usually something that looks flashy but is ultimately meaningless?

Don’t you think that a real God that wanted us to believe in His Messenger would send a Messenger with a lot of evidence to back up His claim?

Sure. Know any?

The Messenger who represented the God would have good explanations but not excuses

You mean like saying their message should be good for a thousand years so don't bother asking anyone else?

The reason God sends Messengers is to guide humanity to the straight path.

But if the real way is a curvy path? I mean, planes don't just go from A to B. They sometimes have to do big curves in order to get where they're going. Is there a straight path when completing a maze?

Who could possibly know better than an All-Knowing and All-Wise God what humanity needs?

Many versions of gods don't really give us much consideration. They just want things.

I mean, name me a god who asks for our thoughts on the matter before making a decision regularly. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Making rules is easy. Living with them is harder. Gods don't have to live with Their decrees for the most part.

If a deity wanted to communicate a message to humanity, how else could a deity do it?

Facebook. That one is incredibly insightful and amusing.

and the messenger would claim to supersede the previous messengers that God sent

But they all do.

The message would be very new and different,

the message is almost always "follow me, not them." That's neither new nor different.

He would gain a following and a religion would be established.

God should be followed, not a human. Any message that promotes following some person is automatically wrong in my book.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Maybe there's a reason no one can find it. Maybe the wide one leads to goal accomplishment while the narrow one is just there to distract you and get you alone so thieves can kill you and take your stuff without witnesses.

The messenger never demands worship.

Then there's no reason for followers.

There is no need to whisper in anyone’s ear since God can communicate to one messenger who can write Tablets and make them available to everyone in books an don the internet.

But God's on Facebook. Mr. Deity is on Youtube. Are you rushing to consider (T)heir messages?

This is patently illogical because not everyone could understand that message let alone write it down.

How does writing it down make it true?

If you believe that God has a moral obligation to reveal the same message He revealed to Baha’u’llah to everyone in the world then you should be able to give me a logical reason why.

Because there is no objective difference between one human and the next.

They are not given a chance because the OMNISCIENT GOD already knows that they could never (a) understand or (b) write down the message.

We have no evidence your guy didn't just write things he made up.

Over 15,000 Tablets – WHY does everyone need to get these in a personal message?

Why does it need to be so wordy?

And this guy is from the 19th century, right? They had paper back then. Why tablets? Yes, paper can rot, but tablets can be broken.

My God did a darn good job of explaining His message to the messenger, who explained it to everyone else...

But if most humans can't understand the message, what use is the messenger? The messenger is only saying what God could easily say Himself, so there is pointless redundancy.

No, God simply sends one messenger in every age

Define "age". We're not in the 19th century anymore no matter what my country is trying to take us back to.

Can everyone be a doctor or a lawyer or a scientist? No, we all have our own abilities and not all of us can DO what others do. That does not make anyone better than anyone else. We are all just different:

So, your guy's qualifications is that he can hear words and write them down? That's not like brain surgery.

Is a rock the same as a plant? Is a plant the same as an animal?

Depends on how nitpicky you want to get.

The messengers of God are a different order of creation ABOVE an ordinary human being.

And you have no reason to doubt this claim by those very people? Trump thinks he can shoot government officials and pardon himself. Is he right?

“The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover….”

Blah blah blah. The hubris of such messengers is always the same. A TRUE messenger would acknowledge that they are ultimately unnecessary.

Why is it God’s responsibility to send everyone on earth his or her own personal message?

Because messengers playing the phone game can change the words. Best to get the message directly.

The Writings of Baha'u'llah have been published in over 800 languages and they are available to read and download online for free. They are also available in books.

So. What?

Are you angry because only one man can be president of a company and not everyone has the same status in that company?

Yes. I feel all companies should be co-ops. The workers are the ones actually doing the work. The owner just sits back in his sports car or yacht and soaks up their profits. Besides, employee productivity and morale would be boosted if they had stakes in the game. Shutting them out teaches them they are worthless.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not good enough. Who is this "baha" dude, and why would I believe HIM?

You would believe in Him if you wanted to know anything about God. But first you would have to research His claim and feel confident that He actually spoke for God.

Why cannot your lazy or weak or incompetent god simply communicate *directly* with *everyone*?
Heck: All Powerful, right?

God can do that and Baha’u’llah said He could do that.

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 70-71

In that passage, “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people” means that God could have revealed Himself in some way such that everyone would know He exists. In that passage, “ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean” means using your reason (innate powers) to determine if God exists. God wants everyone to search for Him and determine that He exists by using their own reason. That is one reason why God does not speak to people directly.

This "god" of yours could easily transcend Time And Space, and communicate with EVERYONE-- EVER, all a the same instant (with respect to god's point of view). Using time-travel, and what-not? The message is sent to EVERYONE, through out time and space, entering the brains of EVERYONE and EXACTLY the correct moment when they would be the most effective.
That All Knowing attribute.

God does not want EVERYONE to get His message. If He did God would ensure that they God His message, since God is omnipotent so could ensure that.

God only wants people who are worthy of getting His message to get it. If EVERYONE got it there would be a lot of unworthy people getting what they do not deserve.

If you were a Christian, I am sure you must have heard about separating the wheat from the chaff. Too bad if you don’t like it but you cannot control an omnipotent God, so it is best you just forget about God and go back to your life and an atheist.

THE FACT THIS NEVER HAPPENED? PROVES THAT IF YOUR GOD IS REAL, IT DELIBERATELY AND WITH MALICE, DID NOT WISH EVERYONE TO HEAR IT'S MESSAGES.

You are correct. God only wants those who did their own homework and looked at the evidence He provided to hear His messages. That means looking at the messenger He sends, because that is the ONLY evidence that God exists.

God does not NEED your belief because God is fully-self sufficient, above the need for any of His creatures. Believing in God is for your own good, not for God’s benefit.

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

“Your Lord, the God of mercy, can well dispense with all creatures. Nothing whatever can either increase or diminish the things He doth possess. If ye believe, to your own behoof will ye believe; and if ye believe not, ye yourselves will suffer.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 148

 

[Trailblazer]

Aaaaand we are back to Might Makes Right-- which is a failed moral stance.

Your statement above, simply says "god can do it how he likes" --- yes, but that does not mean it is FAIR or GOOD.

God cannot be unjust and bad. Only an imaginary god can be that. Feel free to believe in imaginary god if you want to. It does not matter to me, or to God.

Higher Status People is UNFAIR. Therefore? Your god is evil.

You completely missed what I said. I said: Messengers are a higher status because they are different from ordinary humans. That is just the way it is.

That is totally unrelated to Might Makes Right.

Is it unfair that the President of the United States has a higher status than you do because he has some qualifications you do not have?

Why don’t you answer my question?

 

[Trailblazer]

I have decided I will no longer be responding to posts that are insulting or rude, directly or with subterfuge, or posts that poke fun of the messenger or the God I believe in.

I do not care if people disagree with me but I will no longer respond to people who cannot do so respectfully.

I will only answer sincere questions from people who really want answers. If you do not like what I believe that is fine. You can explain why or just ignore me. Mudslinging is not a dialogue. What's the point? It is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Ignore him, or try to kill him.

It's happened before.