What would you expect people to do if a real God sent a real Messenger to earth?

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You would believe in Him if you wanted to know anything about God. But first you would have to research His claim and feel confident that He actually spoke for God.

Nope. Because I have a bias against the entire concept of "messenger from god". It's an immoral methodology.

So that pretty much establishes that this "him" is a fraud?

Or? The god it describes is immoral. I've learned enough to know that much already.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God cannot be unjust and bad.

Therefore? Either your god doesn't exist? Or your description is incorrect.

Of course-- you could be wrong about gods being unjust and/or bad.....

... for you have exactly zero reason to make such a claim.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You are correct. God only wants those who did their own homework and looked at the evidence He provided to hear His messages. That means looking at the messenger He sends, because that is the ONLY evidence that God exists.

Immoral being, your god-- as such I have zero need to read from an equally immoral book, so save your quotes for someone who is interested.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God does not NEED your belief because God is fully-self sufficient,...

False. Proof? If this were accurate, there would be zero need for your god to bother with messengers, or anything else.

Obviously, your god VERY MUCH needs worshipers for some weird reason... !

But that's the way of imaginary beings-- they reflect the insecurities of their worshipers.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God cannot be unjust and bad. Only an imaginary god can be that. Feel free to believe in imaginary god if you want to. It does not matter to me, or to God.

You completely missed what I said. I said: Messengers are a higher status because they are different from ordinary humans. That is just the way it is.

That is totally unrelated to Might Makes Right.

No-- that is exactly Might Makes Right --- because you state your god has infinite power, and therefore?

Could have made a Universe that did not need these Class Messengers. But didn't.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

s Right.

Is it unfair that the President of the United States has a higher status than you do because he has some qualifications you do not have?

Why don’t you answer my question?

Apples and Cruise Ships. Presidents are not god. Neither are they all-powerful (even if they think they ought to be... ).

Finally? In the USA, at least, theoretically, anyone can be president....

.... alas, the GOP took that statement to the most extreme in all of history...

 

[Trailblazer]

Nope. Because I have a bias against the entire concept of "messenger from god". It's an immoral methodology.
So that pretty much establishes that this "him" is a fraud?

Thanks for your honesty.

So your bias establishes that my messenger is a fraud?
I see messengers as very moral, so which one of us is right -- you or me?

Do you know what would be immoral Bob? What would be immoral is God giving everyone the same message, since some people do deserve it and some people do not deserve it.
Giving everyone the same message would be akin to giving everyone a medical degree even though they did not bother to go to college, spend the money and time to earn that degree.

That is one reason God uses messengers, so the deserving people can seek and find God... The others will fall by the wayside because they thumbed their nose at God by rejecting His messenger. That is called JUSTICE.

 

[Trailblazer]

Therefore? Either your god doesn't exist? Or your description is incorrect.

Or the way you interpret my description is incorrect...

Of course-- you could be wrong about gods being unjust and/or bad.....
... for you have exactly zero reason to make such a claim.

I have scriptures revealed by a messenger which is the ONLY WAY anyone can ever know anything about God. If I did not have those I might be wondering alongside you, when I look around in the world and see all the injustice and evil. But I know those are man's doing because of the scriptures. I also use reason and common sense. An unjust bad god makes no sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

Immoral being, your god-- as such I have zero need to read from an equally immoral book, so save your quotes for someone who is interested.

Believe as you wish. God does not need anyone's belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

False. Proof? If this were accurate, there would be zero need for your god to bother with messengers, or anything else.

Obviously, your god VERY MUCH needs worshipers for some weird reason... !

But that's the way of imaginary beings-- they reflect the insecurities of their worshipers.

God does not need squat from anyone. God sends the messenger ONLY for the benefit of humans.

If God needed everyone to believe in Him, why wouldn't He prove Himself to everyone? After all, God is omnipotent so God could do that instantly.

 

[Trailblazer]

No-- that is exactly Might Makes Right --- because you state your god has infinite power, and therefore?

Could have made a Universe that did not need these Class Messengers. But didn't.

True, God could have done that, but there is a reason God uses the messengers...

For one thing, messengers have a mission and they always accomplish their mission, whereas nobody else ever could...

For another thing, messengers have worked to get the messages from God to the people from all of eternity, which is evidenced by the fact that almost everyone in the world believes in God and knows what the messages were...

Why should God change time honored His Method of communication just because a few atheists don't LIKE IT?

Any God that would take orders from humans would not be omnipotent, He would be a wimp.

 

[Trailblazer]

Apples and Cruise Ships. Presidents are not god. Neither are they all-powerful (even if they think they ought to be... ).

What does being all-powerful have to do with anything?
We are talking about qualifications... What makes you think you are qualified to receive messages directly from God?

Finally? In the USA, at least, theoretically, anyone can be president....

Theoretically anyone could be a president or a messenger of God, but in REALITY not anyone could be.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Thanks for your honesty.

So your bias establishes that my messenger is a fraud?
I see messengers as very moral, so which one of us is right -- you or me?

Do you know what would be immoral Bob? What would be immoral is God giving everyone the same message, since some people do deserve it and some people do not deserve it.
Giving everyone the same message would be akin to giving everyone a medical degree even though they did not bother to go to college, spend the money and time to earn that degree.

That is one reason God uses messengers, so the deserving people can seek and find God... The others will fall by the wayside because they thumbed their nose at God by rejecting His messenger. That is called JUSTICE.

I have explained it-- the very use of messengers or intermediary is an immoral act.

Why? Because god, by definition, can literally do it however it pleases-- yet it chooses to use one that creates arbitrary barriers between individuals?

Because Teachers Pets are Immoral and Unfair. Since it can be anything?

The use of Teacher's Pets is Immoral.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Or the way you interpret my description is incorrect...

I have scriptures revealed by a messenger which is the ONLY WAY anyone can ever know anything about God. If I did not have those I might be wondering alongside you, when I look around in the world and see all the injustice and evil. But I know those are man's doing because of the scriptures. I also use reason and common sense. An unjust bad god makes no sense.

But. Your "scriptures" describe a very EVIL being.

Therefore? ... we've been over this already.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Believe as you wish. God does not need anyone's belief.

Yet it felt needful (according to you) to create a Special Messenger Class of human....

Which is Immoral. That is the actions of something in dire need... !

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God does not need squat from anyone. God sends the messenger ONLY for the benefit of humans.

Except the use if messengers is an IMMORAL act, and creates Special Teacher's Pets.

Why? Obviously, since being a god, it could have used a less immoral method, it has some serious needs.

(or it is just myth, like all the rest of historical gods)

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

True, God could have done that, but there is a reason God uses the messengers...

For one thing, messengers have a mission and they always accomplish their mission, .

Except that they don't.

Proof? The very existence of even one (1) atheist proves beyond a doubt, they failed their "mission"....

But wait! It's worse-- the existence of any other religion? Each such religion is another failure in their mission...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

What does being all-powerful have to do with anything?
We are talking about qualifications... What makes you think you are qualified to receive messages directly from God?

What makes you so sure I'm unqualified?

And WHY is your god SO WEAK it cannot muster sufficient energy to speak to everyone, directly?

 

[Trailblazer]

I have explained it-- the very use of messengers or intermediary is an immoral act.

Why? Because god, by definition, can literally do it however it pleases-- yet it chooses to use one that creates arbitrary barriers between individuals?

Not so Bob...
Religions create unity because everyone can read the same message from the messenger.
By contrast, if everyone got their own personal message that would create barriers between people because everyone would be saying that their message was better than other peoples' messages.

 

[Trailblazer]

But. Your "scriptures" describe a very EVIL being.

Therefore? ... we've been over this already.

If that is what you think, there is no need to go over it again.