What WW2 actually was: a war between banking powers

[Shaul]

Did you get a free tin foil hat to go along with this theory or do you pay extra for it?

 

[metis]

I can't see the point in waging a war against separatists.
If their claims are legitimate, the regime of Kiev should have complied with their requests.

But Poroshenko's regime was very dictatorial. And merciless towards Donbas.

You missed my points, so there's nowhere to go with this. NATO, which Italy is obviously part of, well understands what Putin's motive was and still is. I said at the very beginning of the conflict that this likely would go on for years with lots of death because it was all really about Putin from the get-go.

However, with that being said, I also stated even then that I believed [and still believe] that the Ukrainians would be better off using non-cooperative non-violence because Putin will not give up or he'd be in world of hurt. As it is, there is growing dissent within Russia as we have just seen over the last week.

 

[Estro Felino]

You missed my points, so there's nowhere to go with this. NATO, which Italy is obviously part of, well understands what Putin's motive was and still is. I said at the very beginning of the conflict that this likely would go on for years with lots of death because it was all really about Putin from the get-go.

However, with that being said, I also stated even then that I believed [and still believe] that the Ukrainians would be better off using non-cooperative non-violence because Putin will not give up or he'd be in world of hurt. As it is, there is growing dissent within Russia as we have just seen over the last week.

Why won't you speak of Poroshenko?
Is Putin the only villain?

 

[Estro Felino]

Did you get a free tin foil hat to go along with this theory or do you pay extra for it?

I always use it, whenever I bake potatoes. Or pizza. Very useful.

 

[metis]

Why won't you speak of Poroshenko?
Is Putin the only villain?

I never said Putin was. Matter of fact, there's been many problems alleging corruption with many Ukrainian leaders and businessmen, but that doesn't change what caused Putin to attack.

 

[metis]

Are you defending these banking dynasties, by chance?

I think I'm done with this, EF, because that's nothing but a smear and a cheap shot.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think I'm done with this, EF, because that's nothing but a smear and a cheap shot.

I respect your opinion, but I would like my points to be addressed.

 

[Estro Felino]

I never said Putin was. Matter of fact, there's been many problems alleging corruption with many Ukrainian leaders and businessmen, but that doesn't change what caused Putin to attack.

Putin responded to a war started by Poroshenko.
In Donbas.
And Poroshenko admitted that this was a war, in 2014.

 

[Revoltingest]

...I believed [and still believe] that the Ukrainians would be better off using non-cooperative non-violence because Putin will not give up....

Non-violent people are much easier to imprison, enslave, & kill.
Passive resistance might work if the aggressor would be defeated
by the shame of their actions, but this is Vlad Putin they face.

 

[Estro Felino]

Non-violent people are much easier to imprison, enslave, & kill.
Passive resistance might work if the aggressor would be defeated
by the shame of their actions, but this is Vlad Putin they face.

Okay...you will admit that it all started because some Donbas separatists rose against the Kiev's government, and started demanding the independence.
The Kiev regime didn't seek a form of dialogue with them, in 2014. They responded with fire.

Do you think this is something civilized?
No. It's barbaric.
So you expect me to side with Barbarians. No, thank you, dearest.

PS: if some separatists claimed the independence of Sardinia, no Italian would have given a damn. Really.
Whatever. The State would have tried to negotiate with them, and told them: if you want to become independent, fine. I couldn't care less. Good luck, Sardines.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay...you will admit that it all started because some Donbas separatists rose against the Kiev's government, and started demanding the independence.
The Kiev regime didn't seek a form of dialogue with them, in 2014. They responded with fire.

Do you think this is something civilized?
No. It's barbaric.
So you expect me to side with Barbarians. No, thank you, dearest.

PS: if some separatists claimed the independence of Sardinia, no Italian would have given a damn. Really.
Whatever. The State would have tried to negotiate with them, and told them: if you want to become independent, fine. I couldn't care less. Good luck, Sardines.

I admit that Russia invaded Ukraine in order to take the country for his own.
I further admit that Russia is getting its behind handed to them.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

George patton got in trouble by putting Nazis to work managing the areas he had control over, and his argument was that he needed someone to run the cities, trains, and infrastructure.

It was tricky, too, to separate dyed-in-the-wool Nazis from party members who had joined for pragmatic, rather than ideological reasons.
About 10% of the entire population were Nazi party members.

 

[Audie]

Also thanks to a Polish professor who has become honorary member of the Nuremberg trials, I finally understood what pushed Nazi Germans (and the people behind the scenes funding Nazi Germany) to spend so much money on a very extenuating, destructive and self-destructive conflict that involved all European countries, or nearly. It was really something absolutely programmed: there was nothing causal or random in WW2.

It's a very complex and long story, but to simplify:
- the 1929 Crash was so devastating that the banking powers (Warburg, Rockefeller, whose interests were not affected by the Crash) understood they needed to compete with the Socialistic wind blowing in Europe. Socialism had triumphed in Russia, of course. But it had become successful in Italy too, since Mussolini was a socialist who compromised with the Nationalists (Fascists) to prevent a Soviet Revolution from taking place in the country.
But Socialism was being implemented in Britain, France, Germany, Scandinavia, as well. And Spain, above all: that will cause the breakout of the horrific Spanish Civil War.
- Between the twenties and the thirties, these banking powers decided to fund Hitler since they did know a Socialistic revolution was inevitable in Germany. And they did know that their rivals would have done anything to take over in Germany, after the Crash. These powers pushed the Nazis to build the most efficient and greatest military-industrial complex. Auschwitz was built by the IG Farben, the largest petrochemical industry in the world, at that time. Owned by Warburg, Rockfeller, Teagle, Ford and others.
- In 1939, those who funded Hitler, pushed him to conquer the East. Not only because they wanted to defeat the Soviet Union, but mainly because they wished to seize the oilfields in Baku, which were the largest and the richest in the world, at that time. And oil was absolutely fundamental, in the fourties.
- To sum up, WW2 was just a game of chess between two great banking dynasties or banking powers (R. and R.) who were gaming to conquer the resources of Europe and Eastern Europe. They funded the war and benefitted from the war, by selling warfare to the states.

Foundations of Holocaust: American eugenics and the Nazi connection

www.jpost.com

You think Japan invaded China because banks.

 

[Stevicus]

There was a huge dilemma about the Allies rebuilding Germany, especially as the West and East formed with rising conflict with Soviet Russia. It's interesting how many of the war brands like Volkswagen were retooled to build Hitler's car, the Beetle. All the major car brands survived and built cars and trucks. Krup was a major industrial company for centuries and they were allowed to survive, if not for anything else to help the West Germans stay loyal to the West. Speer did 10 years, I think, maybe more. But he was released short of what many wanted. I think the West had to thread the needle of holding the big criminals accountable and compromising on many of those in "management". George patton got in trouble by putting Nazis to work managing the areas he had control over, and his argument was that he needed someone to run the cities, trains, and infrastructure.

It also created a lot of consternation with the Soviet Union, as they seemed to think that the Western Allies were too soft and lenient towards the Germans, which was a major sore point which led to the Cold War. Another part of the documentary I saw showed how the Allies would take monthly turns guarding the Spandau Prison where the top Nazi prisoners were held. It was always worse when it was the Soviets' turn, since they were generally harsher towards the Nazis than the Americans were.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

However, with that being said, I also stated even then that I believed [and still believe] that the Ukrainians would be better off using non-cooperative non-violence because Putin will not give up or he'd be in world of hurt. As it is, there is growing dissent within Russia as we have just seen over the last week.

That just will not work. If they don't return violence with violence they will suffer. Because, no, Putin won't give up. But not even he is immune to the consequences of a drawn out, unpopular war. And unless they want to be subjugated by the next Russian leader they have to keep on fighting until Putin, one way or another, gives up.

 

[F1fan]

It was tricky, too, to separate dyed-in-the-wool Nazis from party members who had joined for pragmatic, rather than ideological reasons.
About 10% of the entire population were Nazi party members.

My dad was in the army in the early 1960's and he was sent to Augsberg, Germany as part of a tank crew. This was a hot zone in the early 1960's. We all moved there and lived in a duplex. The people next door were a bit older, and the husband had been conscripted into the SS at the end of the war as a teenager. He wasn't a Nazi and wasn't trained to the level of the Waffen SS during the early war years, he was just a repacement. But he was in the SS and that was a mark against him for many years. My parents got along with them very well, the Germans loved Americans. Kennedy was the president when we were there and my mom found out Kennedy was killed when our German neighbor came over in a panic and was trying to mime out that he was shot. At first my mom tought it was something good, but as Else kept talking my mom slowly realized he was shot.

 

[F1fan]

It also created a lot of consternation with the Soviet Union, as they seemed to think that the Western Allies were too soft and lenient towards the Germans, which was a major sore point which led to the Cold War. Another part of the documentary I saw showed how the Allies would take monthly turns guarding the Spandau Prison where the top Nazi prisoners were held. It was always worse when it was the Soviets' turn, since they were generally harsher towards the Nazis than the Americans were.

Yeah, there's a story about how one of the American guards became friends with Hermann Goring. I was surprized this was allowed, maybe people weren't aware of it until after he took cyanide. Some suspect the American guard smuggled it in to him so he could avoid being hung. But I can see what the Russians had a bigger gripe against the Germans.

 

[Stevicus]

Yeah, there's a story about how one of the American guards became friends with Hermann Goring. I was surprized this was allowed, maybe people weren't aware of it until after he took cyanide. Some suspect the American guard smuggled it in to him so he could avoid being hung. But I can see what the Russians had a bigger gripe against the Germans.

Yes, I heard that story about Goering's guard who was suspected of smuggling in the cyanide. I heard he was even addressing him by his title of "Reich Marshall." I also heard that when he was first captured, it was by low-level American units who were treating him like exiled royalty, as if he was a celebrity. Perhaps he had a certain level of charisma; hard to say.

 

[Audie]

That just will not work. If they don't return violence with violence they will suffer. Because, no, Putin won't give up. But not even he is immune to the consequences of a drawn out, unpopular war. And unless they want to be subjugated by the next Russian leader they have to keep on fighting until Putin, one way or another, gives up.

Peaceful non cooperation to
get the Russians to go away.

As if.

Perhaps your friend did not hear
about what the Russians did to the
Ukrainians in the 1930s

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Peaceful non cooperation to
get the Russians to go away.

As if.

Perhaps your friend did not hear
about what the Russians did to the
Ukrainians in the 1930s

I am curious how this will end. It's been long with little gains, it's been espensive and devastating to military equipment, and it's been disastrous for many people in Russia's upper eschalon in various ways such as property seizures and high ranked military officials being killed.
If it keeps going on as it has Putin himself might end up vanishing.