What!!?

[Nakosis]

The case is far from closed. The God of the Bible is something that can be feared, based on what is written there. Of course, I don't believe that is what God is about at all so for me, its a moot point. But if one were to go purely by the Bible, I would say yes, there is something there to fear and not in the way I would revere someone.

That's an interesting point. Thinking for myself, whom do I revere...

Folks like Jesus and Gandhi for their compassion. I just don't respect or revere people I fear, It's not the kind of connection with awe I'd like to make.

 

[Nakosis]

You are putting together verses that don't belong together. Verses 14 is not a continuation of 12 and 13. This is what its saying:

I KNOW, that whatever G-d does (when He created the world), it will be forever. On it, can't be added; and from it can't be detracted (the laws of nature are immutable to man). And G-d does it (changes the laws of nature), that they should fear Him.

Its basically saying that all the miracles in the Bible evoke (or should evoke) fear of G-d.

Ok, I can understand that. I can leave out verse fourteen and be happy with that.

Verse 14 then seems a bit of a random thought place here?

It also leaves one with an idea of fatalism or determinism. A philosophical difference between me and whomever the author might be. I'm more of a regularist than determinist.

 

[Unification]

As you see it, anything written is written by God in one form or another?

If it's written on paper by a whole, one, higher, pure conscious mind in an individual, that individual's inner divinity was inspired to write something for a purpose. Many things are beautiful, inspirational writings. Many scientific documentations are inspired. Many different texts reveal the same exact inner truths, behind the metaphors. Even Snow White and the 7 dwarfs can have signifant deeper, spirit (aura,sensation,experience) meaning internally. It's not who a person is, it's what the person, city, country, noun, pronoun represents, and objectively. They also didn't have the more complex vocabulary and words we use today that have evolved significantly. Perhaps back then, folks had simpler lives with not much to do or not much to cloud or consume their minds, (electronics, etc.) so true meditation was more sustained and pure. A still, open, quiet mind that doesn't think or judge, just allows messengers of light(photon absorbtion in forms of electromagnetic energy into the brain/mind to occur.)
Really, what is written on paper has not much significance, what's written (programmed, wired, instilled) on someone's brain/conscience via DNA, photons, dendrites, neurons, etc. is what is real.
Since these texts are so popular, and idolized, and myths are taken literally, and create significant divide amongst humanity, and unfortunately will always be around for folks to oppress, condition, and hoodwink others with, it is better for me to teach their true, objective meaning to lead others to a more pure, peaceable, fulfilled life rather to ignore. If every human being doesn't have the meaning in common, then it is false.
Ie: every human being has a brain and a mind, blood, a body, bones, flesh, etc.. that is highly complex and sophisticated.... In which case, all of the texts are inner, and refer to all of that just in metaphors. Anything else creates divide and millions of religions, and hate.

 

[Nakosis]

I think that people are confusing having a fear of God, with being scared of God. Being scared whips out the physical feeling/emotion of fear which is just negative to the core. It's what fuels evil entities drive to harass humans and keeps us in a negative loop of doubt/fear/"torment". The fear of God is a spiritual fear that is, in a nutshell, positive and healthy for us. It brings faith in a different aspect because by fearing Gods retribution, naturally we have to believe in God and have faith in his existence to ever be able to fear him in the first place. It keeps us reassured that our fate and future do rest in His hands. Kind of how all the things we need to get through primary school is rested in our parents hands so that we don't have to worry.

It's like a package deal that just needs a little initial faith in order to work. God isn't there to scare us, just to let us know who's boss, who really knows best, and to reassure us about what we're supposed to be doing and not be doing.

So it's a statement of giving all authority to God? I suppose that fits in with the theme of the Bible.

 

[Nakosis]

If it's written on paper by a whole, one, higher, pure conscious mind in an individual, that individual's inner divinity was inspired to write something for a purpose. Many things are beautiful, inspirational writings. Many scientific documentations are inspired. Many different texts reveal the same exact inner truths, behind the metaphors. Even Snow White and the 7 dwarfs can have signifant deeper, spirit (aura,sensation,experience) meaning internally.

Fair enough.

It's not who a person is, it's what the person, city, country, noun, pronoun represents, and objectively. They also didn't have the more complex vocabulary and words we use today that have evolved significantly. Perhaps back then, folks had simpler lives with not much to do or not much to cloud or consume their minds, (electronics, etc.) so true meditation was more sustained and pure. A still, open, quiet mind that doesn't think or judge, just allows messengers of light(photon absorbtion in forms of electromagnetic energy into the brain/mind to occur.)
Really, what is written on paper has not much significance, what's written (programmed, wired, instilled) on someone's brain/conscience via DNA, photons, dendrites, neurons, etc. is what is real.

Do you think these messengers of light are from an external source?

Since these texts are so popular, and idolized, and myths are taken literally, and create significant divide amongst humanity, and unfortunately will always be around for folks to oppress, condition, and hoodwink others with, it is better for me to teach their true, objective meaning to lead others to a more pure, peaceable, fulfilled life rather to ignore. If every human being doesn't have the meaning in common, then it is false.
Ie: every human being has a brain and a mind, blood, a body, bones, flesh, etc.. that is highly complex and sophisticated.... In which case, all of the texts are inner, and refer to all of that just in metaphors. Anything else creates divide and millions of religions, and hate.

The Bible seems to me to be a mixed bad of nuts. There's excellent nuts, good nuts, common nuts and bad nuts. This phrasing seems like a bad nut to me. However folks want to see it as, fear or awe.

However the question is, is it fair to say this is a bad nut and leave it at that or should folks be seeing it as equal to all of the other nuts?

 

[Tumah]

Ok, I can understand that. I can leave out verse fourteen and be happy with that.

Verse 14 then seems a bit of a random thought place here?

I guess that depends how you understand the surrounding verses.

It also leaves one with an idea of fatalism or determinism. A philosophical difference between me and whomever the author might be. I'm more of a regularist than determinist.

But I'm sure you didn't open the book expecting to agree with the philosophical principles in it.

 

[Nakosis]

What are the cool things? And what could he do better? I'd like to hear your ideas.

That's kind of a complex question to answer.

I like the compassion of Jesus. However there seems to be a basic understanding which would be key to understand exactly Jesus was teaching about. This leaves it a bit to personal preference as how to understand his teachings.

For example if I believed in reincarnation, I can find passages in the Bible to support that. Bread and wine, bread is the teaching, wine is the influence of the teacher. However some see this as the Eucharist. It's kind of vague and non-specific enough to create thousands of interpretations.

 

[Unification]

Fair enough.


Do you think these messengers of light are from an external source?



The Bible seems to me to be a mixed bad of nuts. There's excellent nuts, good nuts, common nuts and bad nuts. This phrasing seems like a bad nut to me. However folks want to see it as, fear or awe.

However the question is, is it fair to say this is a bad nut and leave it at that or should folks be seeing it as equal to all of the other nuts?

Yes. From the cosmos, nature, environment. Subtly and undetectable. Our physical bodies are also not exempt from scientific laws of nature. For anything to be considered "new," whether a thought or idea, it by definition would have to be from an external source. Source of energy to source of energy.

One can look at it that way. There is such thing as tough love though. I fear being depressed, angry, hateful, spiteful, judgemental, never satisfied... That's no way to live a life. Many of my own actions, and everyone else's has caused myself and others suffering before. Fear is also there being a consequence for an action. For every action, there is a reaction. In forms of energy and subatomic particles, but it occurs. I fear consequences for "negative energy actions"... Therefore, I don't perform things of that nature any longer, because it's no longer my nature. I am dead to that. I also have no desire for negative consequences.

 

[Unification]

Yes. From the cosmos, nature, environment. Subtly and undetectable. Our physical bodies are also not exempt from scientific laws of nature. For anything to be considered "new," whether a thought or idea, it by definition would have to be from an external source. Source of energy to source of energy.

One can look at it that way. There is such thing as tough love though. I fear being depressed, angry, hateful, spiteful, judgemental, never satisfied... That's no way to live a life. Many of my own actions, and everyone else's has caused myself and others suffering before. Fear is also there being a consequence for an action. For every action, there is a reaction. In forms of energy and subatomic particles, but it occurs. I fear consequences for "negative energy actions"... Therefore, I don't perform things of that nature any longer, because it's no longer my nature. I am dead to that. I also have no desire for negative consequences.

I'm also very thankful for all the pain and destruction and lessons I've been taught. Self-accountability. People live their lives thinking there are no consequences for anything, "when you're dead you're dead." So it would would be beneficial for any being to be aware that there is consequences, and that starts with fearing consequences.

 

[savagewind]

I'm also very thankful for all the pain and destruction and lessons I've been taught. Self-accountability. People live their lives thinking there are no consequences for anything, "when you're dead you're dead." So it would would be beneficial for any being to be aware that there is consequences, and that starts with fearing consequences.

I would say not fearing but avoiding. Fear seems to act like a magnet. Fear something happening and it is more likely that it will than that it won't.
Fear causes a restraining says some Bibles and there is a thread about it. Avoiding bad consequences needs wisdom which is something to ask for.

 

[savagewind]

Some wisdom leads to more wisdom. Matthew 13:12 Do you have fear? Will more be added? I think so.

 

[Nakosis]

But I'm sure you didn't open the book expecting to agree with the philosophical principles in it.

Actually I was hoping to support my cynical view. Until verse 14 it was going pretty good. It just surprised me. I was thinking everything else was good but what am I supposed to do with this last verse.

 

[Tumah]

Actually I was hoping to support my cynical view. Until verse 14 it was going pretty good. It just surprised me. I was thinking everything else was good but what am I supposed to do with this last verse.

What did you do with 1:9? And what were you going to do with 3:15?

 

[Nakosis]

What did you do with 1:9? And what were you going to do with 3:15?

Actually I had comes across this passage...

12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. 13 That each of them may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all their toil—this is the gift of God.

The perfect cynical passages. So I was looking further into it starting at this point.

However 1:9, I already assume a cyclical nature to everything. Kind of fits in with the theme of a time for everything. 3:15 seems similar,

 

[Nakosis]

Some wisdom leads to more wisdom. Matthew 13:12 Do you have fear? Will more be added? I think so.

See, I'm not afraid. Is that folly or wisdom?
Kind of works with Buddhist thinking. Right thinking is important. I could create fear within myself. fearful thinking leads to more fear. People think happy thoughts to combat fear I suppose.

Also as you come to understand how something works you are both less fearful and less awe struck by it.

 

[Tumah]

Actually I had comes across this passage...

12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. 13 That each of them may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all their toil—this is the gift of God.

The perfect cynical passages. So I was looking further into it starting at this point.

I see those verses slightly differently:
12 I know, that there is no good in them (various types of toiling) except to be happy and do good in one's life. (meaning the toil of working to be happy with one's lot and to spend one's days doing good deeds, is the only worthy toil)
13 And also every person that will eat and will drink and will see good in all his toil; [this] is a gift [from] G-d. (meaning the good in one's life, is a gift from G-d)

However 1:9, I already assume a cyclical nature to everything. Kind of fits in with the theme of a time for everything. 3:15 seems similar,

How does that work with your views on determinism/fatalism?

 

[Unification]

I would say not fearing but avoiding. Fear seems to act like a magnet. Fear something happening and it is more likely that it will than that it won't.
Fear causes a restraining says some Bibles and there is a thread about it. Avoiding bad consequences needs wisdom which is something to ask for.

All very true, and wise.

Do you suppose that anything positive can come out of fear?

If someone is living in fear, they are in a conscious state of hell. Can it be used to teach lessons consciously? If someone were depressed, they would be in hell. In order for a being to escape and overcome that, would it best if they took accountability and had no desire to continue to be in that conscious state, because they fear it... Overcome it, and are aware that if they make a negative choice, or the same mistake experienced again, they will suffer consequences. As you've said, wisdom was then taught and perceived, and the initial fear was overcome and made aware and then the avoidance. Fear turned into wisdom and becomes automatic nature to avoid.

 

[Nakosis]

I see those verses slightly differently:
12 I know, that there is no good in them (various types of toiling) except to be happy and do good in one's life. (meaning the toil of working to be happy with one's lot and to spend one's days doing good deeds, is the only worthy toil)
13 And also every person that will eat and will drink and will see good in all his toil; [this] is a gift [from] G-d. (meaning the good in one's life, is a gift from G-d)

The cynic's goal is happiness. If happiness comes from toil then it comes from toil, there is a obvious sense of accomplishment which can bring happiness.

How does that work with your views on determinism/fatalism?

Like the Buddhist I suppose, I feel that cyclic nature can be overcome.

 

[Tumah]

The cynic's goal is happiness. If happiness comes from toil then it comes from toil, there is a obvious sense of accomplishment which can bring happiness.

That's not quite what I had meant in my interpretation but I see where you are coming from.

Like the Buddhist I suppose, I feel that cyclic nature can be overcome.

That's a bit of eisegesis over there.

 

[Nakosis]

All very true, and wise.

Do you suppose that anything positive can come out of fear?

If someone is living in fear, they are in a conscious state of hell. Can it be used to teach lessons consciously? If someone were depressed, they would be in hell. In order for a being to escape and overcome that, would it best if they took accountability and had no desire to continue to be in that conscious state, because they fear it... Overcome it, and are aware that if they make a negative choice, or the same mistake experienced again, they will suffer consequences. As you've said, wisdom was then taught and perceived, and the initial fear was overcome and made aware and then the avoidance. Fear turned into wisdom and becomes automatic nature to avoid.

Fear is an animal instinct, flight or hide. It could save your life I guess.

And in these following passages...

19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot. For who can bring them to see what will happen after them?

Pretty pessimistic.

It concludes by saying everything is meaningless, and seems to set the presumption that the only guidance available to man is to keep God's commandment because we will be judged. That's fear, that's not awe or reverence.

It's like a person trying to find purpose in life however whatever purpose he thinks he found he finds something to contradict it. So what I'm seeing is I find parts I agree with then I find the contradiction. It also fits, the Fear of God is the foundation of wisdom according to this because all other wisdom we'd use to guide our life is meaningless. Going forth with the fear of God because we know we will judged and punished? for not keeping God's commandments.