What's wrong with incest?

[Poseidon Soter]

You should be.

Pray tell why?

 

[Curious George]

Okay, so what do you see as the general rule here? I'm afraid I still don't get what the rational reasons are that pertain to incest that don't also pertain to certain other kinds of sexual relations that aren't prohibited by law.

Well those would be the frequency of birth defects and the potential of abuse/coercion. In families some relationships are presumed. We cannot presume those relationships outside the context of families and we cannot investigate them without an erosion of privacy.

This prevents us from regulating relationships outside of families even when those very same reasons exist.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

In families some relationships are presumed.

Can you expand on what you mean here?

 

[Vouthon]

I'm curious your feelings on marrying childhood friends is then, as they certainly can be so close to be very much part of the same 'tribe without actual familial ties. I've personally loved my husband since I was a preteen.
(No, we are not related , for anyone curious about the implication.)

Beyond close genetic relatives, a person's choice of marriage partner is naturally their own decision and not a matter which anybody else should have a say over.

Since you aren't closely related, it is still a broadening of the gene pool and not "keeping it in the family", which is the most narrow degree of tribalism possible.

That said, yes, I do think that people marrying across social groups, borders and ethnic differences is a social good, and very much to be encouraged. But not everyone has the opportunity to solicit a marriage partner from another community, city, country or ethnic/racial group.

So I'm not making a hard-and-fast rule here, merely suggesting that the principle of exogamy, where possible, should be given preferential status over endogamy.

Consider, also, that if someone were to come from a family with high cousin marriages and decided to marry a close family friend instead, that would be exogamous in their specific context.

People should marry whosoever they love (provided they aren't close relations already). But as a general principle, I personally favour exogamy. Open communities are better than closed communities.

 

[Curious George]

Can you expand on what you mean here?

Family roles have a presumed dependence and association. You are likely forced to be around your sibling and in some instances your close extended family. If your sibling is older or more capable it is common to see dependence here as well. Family members can use that association to groom or coerce a relationship.

 

[Deidre]

Child sexual abuse is arguably distinct from incest though, and I'd contend your assertion that most sibling-sibling sexual relationships between adults are not consenting (some maybe, but why necessarily the majority?).

Why are you defending incest? Just wondering.

 

[Skwim]

Why are you defending incest? Just wondering.

Why are you apparently against adult, consensual, safe incest? Just wondering.

.

 

[Estro Felino]

Eww. Gross on multiple levels.

Why? There are gay siblings/twins who do that.

Situation in Europe

What I find notable is that in Germany and Greece consensual sex between sibling minors is okay,
and that in Italy consensual sex between siblings is legal if it doesn't provoke public scandal.

.

Yes,..the Italian law about incest implies that two siblings who have consensual sex can never be accused of a crime, if they keep their relationship secret (private).
Secrecy is a way to underline that their relationship must not be taken serious both juridically and socially, because matrimony between siblings is forbidden

 

[whirlingmerc]

The thread title is pretty self-explanatory. But just to expand a little, how do you define incest - how closely-related does someone need to be - and why do you think it is wrong (assuming you do - if you don't, why not?)?

PS

Can be harmful to the children today since genetic problems are amplified Those problems are less when married someone more distantly related

Not clear if you mean marrying a close relative or sexual abuse of a sibling. Both very different issues.

 

[blü 2]

There were cultures such as I believe ancient Egypt where incest was practiced. But as @Aldrnari noted, it's biologically a bad thing to do.

First-cousin marriage was frowned on by the English middle classes, but was unremarkable among the Scots, Irish and Welsh. It's still popular in many cultures as a way of ensuring the land or business or money stays in the family, eg across the Middle East. Even over generations it doesn't seem to have anything like the bad results of legend.

On this subject, I notice the old >Kallikak< yarn has found a place in Wikipedia too.

Of course there are hereditary diseases, like Tay-Sachs amonst the Acadians, but that's straightforward. The idea that inbreeding is intrinsically bad is by no means so clear.

 

[Skwim]

Why? There are gay siblings/twins who do that.

What I find notable is that in Germany and Greece consensual sex between sibling minors is okay,
and that in Italy consensual sex between siblings is legal if it doesn't provoke public scandal.

.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Well, for one, children born of an incestuous union are at an increased risk of being born with birth defects.

Marginally, until a certain point. People get squicked out about marrying first cousins ("incest" even though cool under the Bible and other stuff), but actually marrying a complete stranger is like 2% deformity risk, it is only when you marry first cousins that it becomes about 4%. The problem of incest really only gets bad with direct relatives (and thereon, becomes worse with each incestuous generation, as is the case of old Egypt with its matrilineal incest).

 

[Deidre]

Why are you apparently against adult, consensual, safe incest? Just wondering.

.

Mainly because if there is a pregnancy, science has shown that often times, there will be an increase in genetic defects, disease, etc. Seems careless to me.

 

[Skwim]

Mainly because if there is a pregnancy, science has shown that often times, there will be an increase in genetic defects, disease, etc. Seems careless to me.

I should have been clearer when I said "safe incest," by which I meant no chance of pregnancy. So, how do you feel about incest if it's between consenting adults and cannot result in pregnancy?

.

.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The thread title is pretty self-explanatory. But just to expand a little, how do you define incest - how closely-related does someone need to be - and why do you think it is wrong (assuming you do - if you don't, why not?)?

PS

I don't believe incest can occur with genuine consent, with the possible exceptions of those rare cases where people find out they're related only after they've started a relationship.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Mainly because if there is a pregnancy, science has shown that often times, there will be an increase in genetic defects, disease, etc. Seems careless to me.

In the case of first generation incest, the increase in genetic defects is fairly limited. Roughly as likely as similar diseases or conditions in children born to a mother over 40. Would you disallow women over 40 from relationships too?

 

[Shaul]

Why? There are gay siblings/twins who do that.

Situation in Europe

First, I don’t accept at face value your map, both on factuality nor interpretation. Secondly I recognize a difference between non-criminality and approval. There are locals that have de-criminalized minor prostitution too, but that isn’t to condone it. Thirdly I don’t look to Europe as some sort of moral example. They have been persecuting and murdering my coreligionists for millennia. Lastly, yeah gross. I am not interested in dwelling on how other people have sex. That’s vulgar. Incest even more so. It’s like pornography, if I have to explain to you or somebody why it’s gross then there really is no point.

There are some 6,000,000,000 people in the world. If a person has about 25 close relations, I don’t see how limiting people to 5,999,999,975 potential sex partners so we can eliminate incest is too much to ask. I don’t know why you self elected to become the evangelist for incest, but you might find a new hobby.

 

[leibowde84]

The thread title is pretty self-explanatory. But just to expand a little, how do you define incest - how closely-related does someone need to be - and why do you think it is wrong (assuming you do - if you don't, why not?)?

PS

It is wrong because of genetics. Incest creates a much higher risk of birth defects.

 

[Deidre]

I should have been clearer when I said "safe incest," by which I meant no chance of pregnancy. So, how do you feel about incest if it's between consenting adults and cannot result in pregnancy?

.

.

It’s weird you say this because I think I’m kinda neutral on it. I wouldn’t be into it but consenting adults can live their lives as they wish. But I’m not sure we can guarantee no pregnancies lol But I understand your point.

 

[Deidre]

In the case of first generation incest, the increase in genetic defects is fairly limited. Roughly as likely as similar diseases or conditions in children born to a mother over 40. Would you disallow women over 40 from relationships too?

Apples to oranges lol

I’m not disallowing for the record, this is just my opinion.