You think Joel Osteen doesn't charge people?
There might not be a box office at his church, but he doesn't need one. He uses manipulative - almost con artist-like - tactics to fleece his flock:
https://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Blog.aspx?blogid=8875
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What's Wrong With Joel Osteen?
- Thread starter james bond
- Start date
There might not be a box office at his church, but he doesn't need one. He uses manipulative - almost con artist-like - tactics to fleece his flock:
https://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Blog.aspx?blogid=8875
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It isn't just my view on Joel by which his lust for money conflicts with his chosen vocation as a Christian clergyman. There's a lot of practicing Christians out there with the same type of opinions. It's interesting though how you provide Old Testament names as a justification. I really don't blame you for using those names. The New Testament dosent seem to reflect very well on people who are substantially wealthy.
Personally, I still think it's destructive behavior that sets an unrealistic real life example to other people less fortunate than him that it's ok for wealthy individuals to indulge, flaunt, and hoard wealth openly like it's going out of style, and out of the same breath, encourage and entice far less fortunate people to give money to him on a hope of a type of blessing that rarely, if ever, comes to pass. Its really hypocrisy In drag.
In some respect, people do deserve any disappointments forthcoming and there are as many testaments citing disappointments if not more than those successes that television preachers enjoy crowing about. Of course, the negatives are conspicuously missing and carefully avoided on purpose.
I'm pretty sure Joel knows this, as well as the laws of economics and statistics and happily capitalizes nonetheless using strategic planning to maximize profits using non profit status organizations as an effective marketing vehicle.
That's not a Church. Joel is clearly not a man of the cloth. It's pure business and Joel is a successful businessman and marketeer selling Christianity as a commodity for personal benefit.
Those who support all this deserve to be parted with their cash anyways I suppose.
Matches made in heaven.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Hey! Brilliant bringing that up! Humdinger of an idea...
How about we write a bunch of books about how to get extremely rich and blessed like we are and sell it to them so they can be rich too? I'm sure those Hondurans will be blessed fourfold and we ourselves can get even get richer!!!
Whaddya say?
The same way they fleeced you into paying your way to help 3000 children. They manipulated you into not charging a dime; made you pay for your airfare, your food and your stay.
They are GOOD!
Why sell books? You already have so much and never go hungry! Have a car, TV, internet, computer and you even go out to eat. You really have no compassion for the people who go hungry.
I'll just stop at the first sentence. I let God take care of heart issues and judgments. After all, I won't have you at my side nor will you have me at your side when you respond to God.
I think He knows hearts better.
Did you check out the link?The same way they fleeced you into paying your way to help 3000 children. They manipulated you into not charging a dime; made you pay for your airfare, your food and your stay.
They are GOOD!
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I figured we could do the same thing Joel does. Maybe your right. Best not to follow Joel's own example of Prosperity and success.
Still . ..
Those Hondurans will lose any blessing from God if we don't sell them books though, and we ourselves won't get richer and wealthier. We are losing out on God's blessings.
Yea!!!! Why even sell books? Who needs them? All we need is a fire place and a couple of clubs.
They should also pull the plug on Medical Missions, School help, Recovery Ministries and the help they give all over the world to make you happy.
You guys are just too funny.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yep we are.
Hey can you give Joel a call?
Seems like he dosent want to disclose his fine contribution to Charity with bbb's give.org
Maybe it was just a harmless oversight there. Don't want people to think he's purposely trying to hide a few facts. ..
Charity Report - Joel Osteen Ministries - give.org
I got it!! If you don't respond to the God BBB - you are evil!
Seems like it is only those who aren't making a world impact are the ones who criticize. It is the gargle of none achievers.
Well, I did some research. He seems to be a complete unknown here. Asked my ex-pastor. Never heard of him. Same with the two left members of the congregation. Friends in Norway and Denmark seem to confirm.
Probably that is due to the fact that we do not need any God, or preacher, to be prosperous.
From his point of view, it is probably like selling beer in Munich. Or sand in the desert. A waste of time.
Actually, the fact that we are very prosperous despite being a de-facto atheistic nation, might confuse him. And his disciples maybe more so.
But he might be right, God wants us to be prosperous. Only detail neglected is that people who do not believe in Him seem to get the biggest slice of the cake. Who can say? Mysterious ways, probably.
Ciao
- viole
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Well, I did some research. He seems to be a complete unknown here. Asked my ex-pastor. Never heard of him. Same with the two left members of the congregation. Friends in Norway and Denmark seem to confirm.
Probably that is due to the fact that we do not need any God, or preacher, to be prosperous.
From his point of view, it is probably like selling beer in Munich. Or sand in the desert. A waste of time.
Actually, the fact that we are very prosperous despite being a de-facto atheistic nation, might confuse him. And his disciples maybe more so.
But he might be right, God wants us to be prosperous. Only detail neglected is that people who do not believe in Him seem to get the biggest slice of the cake. Who can say? Mysterious ways, probably.
Ciao
- viole
You obviously have no idea what he preaches nor, by your comments, does it look like you know what the Bible says.
I'll take that as a "no".
I posted an example of what he preaches earlier. Here's what he says in that link:
IOW, "give me money and God will make you wealthy."
This is the message of a con man.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
True. The tithe is or was actually 10%. It wasn't anything above or below that. What Joel seems to be saying is that if you give more than that you will get back more than that. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.
I don't recall reading where Jesus asked for any money. I may be mistaken, though.
Yes... you can take one snippet at the expense of all that is taught.
And you are talking to the wrong person.
The first time I heard a pastor giving an offering scripture I said in my mind "You ain't touching my wallet!".
1 year later after going deeper in debt, I changed jobs, lost 30% of my income but started tithing. Bills went down.
Let me correct your statement, (and it isn't "make me wealthy") - there are those who give and it prospers you and there are those who tend to withhold more than they should and it tends to poverty.
You understand the principle when you pay your own way to help 3,000 children.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Tithing dosent do nothing at all except for making a person even poorer in direct terms.
Circumstances and conditions dictates a person's gain or loss, not a continuous draining of one's finance's on someone's schemes to make money off another's belief's.
I remember Jim Bakker during his prison years, mentioning the major giver's were actually wealthy, and / or well to do people that can actually afford 10 percent or higher each and every week.
Most people cannot , for which I'd advise for such people to keep their money, and leave the contributions to those wealthy and well to do who actually have the means and ability.
It's horrible how so many are wrongfully manipulated into giving something that is earned through hard work and sweat to just give it away so some con man or woman can just buy luxuries for their own bragging rights at another person's expense. Things important like putting food on the table, paying for ones ones health, and a decent roof over their heads. Those should come first and foremost before anything else.
Don't let people convince you otherwise and never feel guilty for not giving. There's no guilt whatsoever in taking care of yourself first. It's common sense.
Circumstances and conditions dictates a person's gain or loss, not a continuous draining of one's finance's on someone's schemes to make money off another's belief's.
I remember Jim Bakker during his prison years, mentioning the major giver's were actually wealthy, and / or well to do people that can actually afford 10 percent or higher each and every week.
Most people cannot , for which I'd advise for such people to keep their money, and leave the contributions to those wealthy and well to do who actually have the means and ability.
It's horrible how so many are wrongfully manipulated into giving something that is earned through hard work and sweat to just give it away so some con man or woman can just buy luxuries for their own bragging rights at another person's expense. Things important like putting food on the table, paying for ones ones health, and a decent roof over their heads. Those should come first and foremost before anything else.
Don't let people convince you otherwise and never feel guilty for not giving. There's no guilt whatsoever in taking care of yourself first. It's common sense.
Someone forgot to tell me that before God worked in my finances.
I have a friend who was a 6 figure income person who could buy one pair of shoes... I shared my experience and said "Acknowledge God with a tithe and come to me if you need food".
He tithed, God worked, he never went hungry and his bills went down.
Now, on your defense, I tried tithing once and it didn't work... it made me poorer! But when faith grew in my life and I said to myself "they may take my house away but I can buy another house and they definitely don't want my wife and children"... the tables were turned and God worked.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why do some churches demand their congregants tithe when it's found in the "old law" that Christians do not adhere to? Seems self-serving for these churches to do that.
Also, conditions when tithing was ordered under the Law 2-3000 years ago was different than today whereas secular taxes cover a great many items that tithing had previously covered.
Also, conditions when tithing was ordered under the Law 2-3000 years ago was different than today whereas secular taxes cover a great many items that tithing had previously covered.