What's Wrong With Joel Osteen?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do some churches demand their congregants tithe when it's found in the "old law" that Christians do not adhere to? Seems self-serving for these churches to do that.

It's funny to see the cherry-picking of the Old Testament that goes on. My ex's church had an altar of unhewn stone, but with steps leading up to it.

I think it's especially telling how the Bible describes two different sets of "Ten Commandments", both written by God's own hands, but they only follow (or give lip-service to, at least) one of them.

 

[Kenny]

Why do some churches demand their congregants tithe when it's found in the "old law" that Christians do not adhere to? Seems self-serving for these churches to do that.

Also, conditions when tithing was ordered under the Law 2-3000 years ago was different than today whereas secular taxes cover a great many items that tithing had previously covered.

That's a good question, Metis.

I think that varies from church to church... but in ours in isn't a "requirement".

As I understand it, the tithe was instituted as a position of faith by Abraham, Issac and Jacob before there was the law.

In Heb 7, we understand it to say that Jesus, our High Priest, still received the attitude of worship in our hearts in our tithe as we give it today as a position of faith and thanksgiving.

I wouldn't say its self-serving by a church receiving it (of course the heart makes all the difference in the world--you can worship God, a proper thing to do, and yet your heart can be far from Him).

I tithed as a position of trusting in God for provision and of acknowledging of Him in all areas (as Jesus said, you can't serve mammon and God at the same time--if I HAVE to keep my money, then obviously money is what is driving my life).

In a more earthly way of thinking, He saved my marriage!!!! How much would alimony cost me? More than a tithe!!! He fixed it, I thank Him for it.

Additionally, He has saved me innumerable amounts of money that I would have spent on hospital and doctor bills.

HE is worthy to receive glory, honor, power.... and my tithe

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I tithed as a position of trusting in God for provision and of acknowledging of Him in all areas (as Jesus said, you can't serve mammon and God at the same time--if I HAVE to keep my money, then obviously money is what is driving my life).

If you HAD to keep 90% of your money, how much were you really trusting God for provision?

 

[Kenny]

If you HAD to keep 90% of your money, how much were you really trusting God for provision?

When we didn't have any food and had to believe God for it.... and placing $5 a week for clothing for a family of 5 or 6 (depending on the year)... I would say, quite a bit.

When we went to church with enough gas to get there and not come back home... quite a bit, I would say.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When we didn't have any food and had to believe God for it.... and placing $5 a week for clothing for a family of 5 or 6 (depending on the year)... I would say, quite a bit.

When we went to church with enough gas to get there and not come back home... quite a bit, I would say.

So if you trust in God, you can get by with $5 a week for clothing and not enough gas money to get you where you need to go.

Do you live like that now? If not, why not?

 

[Kenny]

So if you trust in God, you can get by with $5 a week for clothing and not enough gas money to get you where you need to go.

Do you live like that now? If not, why not?

Good questions...

First, I am coming to Him with the conditions that I created... thus going to church one night knowing that we don't have enough gas or money to get back. These are the days of the desert where God provides manna (so to speak).

Do I live like that now?

Not in that fashion having learned faith and having God pull us out of our messes. God didn't plan providing manna, their daily bread, for the rest of Israel's life but rather wanted them to go from one position of faith to the next. When they reached the promised land, at that point, the daily bread ceased and they were to till the land in faith. Their next level was to face their giants and from there to become a blessing to the nations.

Translated that into today's life, God never wanted us or people to live in the poverty line forever and just believing God for their daily bread but rather to live from one level of faith to the next and reach the point that you are able to give what you freely have received.

Our faith, now, is to continue that position of utmost trust in God in our work to establish His covenant promises with others and becoming a river of blessings to others in their journey as we are obedient to Him.

When He says, "GIVE", we do! And when He doesn't say anything in particular, we give out of the abundance of thankfulness where we know we can be a blessing.

God wants people to get out of poverty and become a river of supply to others in need.

 

[Twilight Hue]

God wants people to get out of poverty and become a river of supply to others in need.

River of supply? Where?

Except Osteen of course. We all know where his river of supply is.

 

[Kenny]

River of supply? Where?

Except Osteen of course. We all know where his river of supply is.

Are you asking Jesus to show you?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you asking Jesus to show you?

Just wanted to ask where the river of supply was.

 

[Kenny]

Just wanted to ask where the river of supply was.

You are such a literalist

But you can ask Him to help you be one.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

WHAT’S THE PROBLEM WITH JOEL OSTEEN?

Other than the hypocrisy, hubris, greed and blasphemy, probably nothing.

Here's what Joel says, "Live your best life now."

It's more realistic to listen to Jesus instead: "Do not worry about tomorrow."

The clerk shook her head and smiled, “I should have known. Everybody that comes in here like you is from Lakewood.”

Everyone I know who acts like that is on medication

"Don’t believe that lie. My dad came from the poorest of families. His parents were cotton farmers, and they lost everything in the Great Depression. My grandmother worked 14 to 15 hours a day washing people’s clothes, earning 10 cents an hour.

They were good people, but nobody in our family line had ever amounted to much, living instead under a curse of poverty and defeat. Then one day, at age 17, my dad committed his life to Christ, and God put a dream in his heart to preach.

Rich people easily became dirt-eating poor people in the Great Depression. Did they not tithe enough? And no amount of wealth could stop mountains of dirt from invading your home during the Dust Bowl. From this site,

In the political world, the economic distress led to the election of Democrat, Franklin D. Roosevelt to the presidency in 1932. He introduced many changes in the structure of the American economy and implemented what was called the New Deal that began many public-works projects to decrease unemployment. The Tennessee Valley Authority and the Public Works Administration are examples of these public works projects. One agency that was started in response to what happened with the stock market was the Securities Exchange Commission. This agency enforced new security laws that made it necessary that if businesses wanted to sell securities or stocks in their business, the owners had to be truthful with potential investors about their companies and warn them about the risks involved in investing.

I don't see "tithing" as the answer to fixing the economy in the 30's. And if Joel's mom was earning 10 cents an hour in the 30's, she was doing pretty decently, given the cost of living at that time.

Joel thinks all of us are like his followers: bad at math.

Then one day, at age 17, my dad committed his life to Christ, and God put a dream in his heart to preach.

And then one day, a rash teenager committed his life to exploiting depressed people to convince them to give him their money.

God is limited only by our lack of faith.

God has limits that depend on humans, ladies and gentlemen. He has to have our permission to do anything with the planet He rules.

When I was a kid I could tell the difference between neighborhood kids who wanted to be my friend from the neighborhood kids who were my friends so that they could play with my toys. Joel and Joyce are the latter. They both teach a twisted form of Christianity that teaches obedience, giving and faith as a way to get things from God. They are both products of what is known as the Prosperity Gospel and The Word of Faith Movement, or the Seed Faith Movement."

Amen.

Look at the Garden of Eden. It was beautiful. Lush, wonder of nature, food, plants and animals were plentiful. The waterfalls were sublime. The animals were under their control. I think there's a dinosaur by the river. This is what God wanted for us. Not creepy, boring atheist stuff.

The painter was there? He actually saw animals clearly not domesticated and/or bred until much later in human history in the Garden of Eden? And for not inventing combs yet, their hair is IMPECCABLE...

I find him a inspiring speaker.

Palpatine was, too.

I'll say this for Joel that he hasn't been caught with prostitutes like Jimmy Swaggart, or caught swindling like Jim Bakker, and doesn't go around pointing fingers at groups of people like Falwell. He's just filthy stinking rich.

Give it time. People who think they're invulnerable will always show a vulnerability at some point.

Nine years ago Osteen was virtually unknown even in his own church in Houston. A college drop-out, he worked behind the scenes producing his father, Pastor John Osteen's, television ministry. When his father died, he stepped out in front of the camera and started to catch on. So why are so many people flocking to Joel Osteen?

People are incredibly shallow and will follow any little Ken doll promising them riches. Worked with you, right?

There are no crosses, no religious symbols whatsoever.

No reference to the actual deity here, just marvel at the preacher speaking to you with giant heads of himself posted on giant tv's in the background ....

They wanna be here, they weren't drug to come to church.

Ice cream trucks don't drag people either and have you ever seen what their ice cream looks like compared to the pictures on the truck?

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/509/608/7be.jpg

Salespeople are all the same: promising you quality (or whatever) and giving you a deformed and broken candidate for the trash heap.

Or else we would always be questioning things that have happened in the past. Joel Osteen's message is to trust God and let go of the past. The past isn't something we can change, but we can change the future. With the help of God, we can change the future by letting go of the past.

And by giving Eric Cartman a dollar.

He wants you to be perfect, too, and that means to be a success and to be happy.

Jesus was an impoverished person who bummed favors out of his followers and died a horrible, cruel death.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I think anyone who is making a worldwide impact will have their critics who happen to be those who aren't really making a difference.

Asteroids make worldwide impacts too.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You are such a literalist

But you can ask Him to help you be one.

I dropped it all long ago.

 

[Kenny]

Asteroids make worldwide impacts too.

I'm sure it would receive just as much criticism.

 

[Kenny]

I dropped it all long ago.

Maybe that's why you aren't a river.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe that's why you aren't a river.

There is no river. ;0)

 

[Kenny]

There is no river. ;0)

Be it unto you according as you have believed.

 

[james bond]

Other than the hypocrisy, hubris, greed and blasphemy, probably nothing.


It's more realistic to listen to Jesus instead: "Do not worry about tomorrow."


Everyone I know who acts like that is on medication


Rich people easily became dirt-eating poor people in the Great Depression. Did they not tithe enough? And no amount of wealth could stop mountains of dirt from invading your home during the Dust Bowl. From this site,

I don't see "tithing" as the answer to fixing the economy in the 30's. And if Joel's mom was earning 10 cents an hour in the 30's, she was doing pretty decently, given the cost of living at that time.

Joel thinks all of us are like his followers: bad at math.


And then one day, a rash teenager committed his life to exploiting depressed people to convince them to give him their money.


God has limits that depend on humans, ladies and gentlemen. He has to have our permission to do anything with the planet He rules.


Amen.


The painter was there? He actually saw animals clearly not domesticated and/or bred until much later in human history in the Garden of Eden? And for not inventing combs yet, their hair is IMPECCABLE...


Palpatine was, too.


Give it time. People who think they're invulnerable will always show a vulnerability at some point.


People are incredibly shallow and will follow any little Ken doll promising them riches. Worked with you, right?


No reference to the actual deity here, just marvel at the preacher speaking to you with giant heads of himself posted on giant tv's in the background ....


Ice cream trucks don't drag people either and have you ever seen what their ice cream looks like compared to the pictures on the truck?

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/509/608/7be.jpg

Salespeople are all the same: promising you quality (or whatever) and giving you a deformed and broken candidate for the trash heap.


And by giving Eric Cartman a dollar.


Jesus was an impoverished person who bummed favors out of his followers and died a horrible, cruel death.

Where do you get this rubbish? Do you just think of the above?

 

[BlueB]

I like Joel. I don't see him every week but whenever I do watch I always find his message helpful and inspiring.

As far as people who want to discuss $, the members of the church are free to do as they wish with their income.

His congregation strikes me as nothing but predominantly good folks.

Wish Joel and his congregation nothing but future success and ask they keep me and my family in their prayers having been hit with illness this year.

Believe in God and that through it all he has a special plan for you, and life becomes easier than constantly looking for faults in others.

It takes courage to believe , not to doubt.

May god bless anyone who comes across this post. Know that you are loved.

 

[sojourner]

I'm thinking much the same thing. There have been far worse preachers. Ernest Angely is my all time fave though. He's funnier than Saturday Night Live.

“Baaayyy — BEE!!!”