What's Wrong With Suffering?

[sandy whitelinger]

Suffering needs to serve a purpose to be good. Otherwise it is bad because it serves no purpose.

You're just putting words on things. This does not explain a thing. The appendix serves no purpose. Is it bad?

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok. Sounds like you have an agenda.

And you don't?

 

[Trailblazer]

And where in the definition of depression does that come from?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I see no correlation between the definition of negative and suffering. That's why.

I see no correlation between the definition of of positive and suffering. Since suffering is to sustain loss or damage, and negative (quantity) is absence, withholding, or removal. Loss or damage is absence, withhlding or removal.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, suffering is up to each person? Suppose I enjoy suffering? Then suffering is good, yes?

No, not necessarily. If they enjoy suffering they could be a masochist... That is not good.

OTOH, if they are suffering for a Cause that could be good, depending upon what the Cause is.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Is death bad?

Not to a suicidal person who is that way because they are suffering.

Well in God's defense we all are not innocent children.

Luke 6:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.

I suffered a colonoscopy once. What did I lose?

I had a relative who had one once. They perforated his colon. Can't remember from the story if he died or not.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I see no correlation between the definition of of positive and suffering. Since suffering is to sustain loss or damage, and negative (quantity) is absence, withholding, or removal. Loss or damage is absence, withhlding or removal.

Suffering is the state of undergoing pain, distress or hardship.

I see no correlation between positive and suffering either. I see no correlation between suffering and good and bad, right and wrong or righteous or evil. It just is.

Most think it's wrong because they don't like it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, not necessarily. If they enjoy suffering they could be a masochist... That is not good.

OTOH, if they are suffering for a Cause that could be good, depending upon what the Cause is.

So suffering can be either good or bad? Can we agree on that?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

View attachment 20605

I use a dictionary. It keeps things clearer.

 

[Trailblazer]

So suffering can be either good or bad? Can we agree on that?

Yes.

 

[Sunstone]

So we don't like suffering. Does that make it bad? I don't like pissing but ignoring it is problematic.

Jeebers, Sandy, you sure do know how to miss the point when you're determined to miss it. You can (as you say) observe that you don't like suffering. But that wasn't my point, now was it? My point was that you can observe that suffering has negative consequences. That's not the same point as "You can observe that you don't like suffering." Please ratchet up your game a notch or two.

Bottom line: You don't need me or anyone else to tell you why suffering is negative. That's something you can observe for yourself -- even if you pretend you can't.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And you don't?
View attachment 20604

Nothing different than the op. It kinda works that way. Your agenda seems more personal and unrepresentive of the op because you arguments are falling flat.

 

[Trailblazer]

I use a dictionary. It keeps things clearer.

Definition of depression
1 : an act of depressing or a state of being depressed: such as
a (1) : a state of feeling sad : dejection

• anger, anxiety, and depression

(2) : a mood disorder marked especially by sadness, inactivity, difficulty in thinking and concentration, a significant increase or decrease in appetite and time spent sleeping, feelings of dejection and hopelessness, and sometimes suicidal tendencies

• bouts of depression

• suffering from clinical depression

 

[Trailblazer]

Nothing different than the op. It kinda works that way. Your agenda seems more personal and unrepresentive of the op because you arguments are falling flat.

I do not have an agenda and I do not have any arguments because I am not trying to prove anything. I just want to know if you have ever been suicidal multiple times, because if not, you cannot possibly understand how that feels, and you cannot really understand what I mean by suffering.

Clearly, suffering is relative. Can you understand that?

 

[David T]

Suffering is defined as those experiences and events that are distressing in valence for a person experiencing them. Thus they are negative experiences (pain, trauma, depression, anxiety, stress, meaninglessness etc.). It's their negative, bitter qualia that makes them unwanted and hence bad as experienced. That's what makes them wrong as we wish our experiences to have positive, sweet qualia.

Wrong? I have no idea what that means even.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

I don't think it's suffering that is at issue. Suffering can be necessary. If you've never suffered hunger you can never fully appreciate food. Everyone should suffer hunger at some point so that they can appreciate having food. The issue is unnecessary suffering. Once a person has experience true hunger and can truly appreciate having food, there's nothing to be gained by allowing them to starve to death.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Suffering is the state of undergoing pain, distress or hardship.

That's part of one definition. But I'm talking about suffering as an effect, an inransitive verb, not a state of being.

I'm not leveling value judgements at an object and its state, but an action and effect based on how much relative positive and negative it causes to a person or society. Suffering is always a negative value, but there may be enough positive attributes to an action to counterbalance the negative. Thus, suffering is always bad/negative, but not every action which causes suffering is totally bad/negative. It depends on how much.

 

[blü 2]

I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

It's bad because it contradicts the advertising, the ultimate bait and switch..

God is sold as all-powerful, all-knowing, and simultaneously the loving Father, personal, benevolent and caring.

As against which, Epicurus is said to have said, on this very subject, words to this effect:

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is god both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?​

Of course, in Christianity this is the same God that either denies eternal life to those who don't kiss his ring (Paul, John, 1 John), or condemns them to eternal torment (Mark, Matthew, Revelation).

So some of the contradictions are built in.

 

[Koldo]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

Nothing beats personal experience on this case.
It is like trying to explain what the color 'blue' looks like to a blind ( from birth ) person.
If you see nothing wrong with your own suffering then you have yet to experience suffering.
There are methods you could make use of to quickly experience suffering and notice what is wrong with it but I suppose suggesting them might be against the TOS in this forum.

 

[sun rise]

Suffering is often how we learn. If I stick my fingers in a fire, the resulting suffering teaches me not to do it again. In the East, this learning from suffering and pleasure is called karma.

There is nothing wrong with death