Darned left, wanting societies to thrive when they could collapse in pride!
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whats your beef with brexit?
- Thread starter England my lionheart
- Start date
Notanumber
A Free Man
What did Ireland demand that the EU changed before they voted again?
Brendan O'Neill: Asking the Irish to vote again on the Lisbon treaty is arrogant, insulting and undemocratic
If this has set a precedent and proves that the EU are flexible when it comes renegotiating we should have no problem getting that backstop removed.
The EU could become our flexible friends when we have left.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Well, I've not a clue what happens next; last night's development means that the EU has to blink for any progress to be made.
The only people seeming happy was May (and I suspect she'll be disappointed shortly) and the real leaders the ERG gang of toffs. If the ERG are smiling they have something planned and May has fallen into their trap.
I should of course add that the Tory press are calling May a hero. That worries me, although it is just a set up to blame the EU when it all falls apart.
The only people seeming happy was May (and I suspect she'll be disappointed shortly) and the real leaders the ERG gang of toffs. If the ERG are smiling they have something planned and May has fallen into their trap.
I should of course add that the Tory press are calling May a hero. That worries me, although it is just a set up to blame the EU when it all falls apart.
Notanumber
A Free Man
It is looking like the will of the people will prevail after all.
If so, parliament has so far failed to kill off democracy.
Altfish
Veteran Member
"Will of the People" is another one like "British Values" - phrases that are banded about but are totally meaningless.
Notanumber
A Free Man
It might be meaningless to you but to us supporters of democracy it means everything.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Good grief, stop being so righteous.
"Believer in Democracy" - so, that means you will agree, that now we know what 'Leave' actually means we should have a second vote. That's real democracy.
Notanumber
A Free Man
A losers vote was and always has been a rubbish idea.
Even the Remoaner politicians seem to have ditched the idea.
Notanumber
A Free Man
These two are very good analysts.
There is no reason to doubt them.
There is no reason to doubt them.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
May has achieved what she wanted.
She has used up a couple of more weeks without changing her position at all
Her plan and no deal are still the only ones on the table.
She has conceded nothing to parliament.
She will concede nothing to the EU.
She does not care if the EU agree changes to the "back stop" or not.
If they do, she would consider that a win win to her.
Her aim is to present Parliament "Her plan" modified or not, or "No plan", as the only choice at the end of March.
On looking at the present state of play in her own party, and among the opposition , there is a total lack of any consensus against her,
Parliament will probably settle on "Her plan" as the lesser of two evils.
But the reality is, it is a choice between two ways, each of which will end in disaster for a majority of British people.
Of course those are not the only possible choices, but everyone is having to play her game, and she is not allowing any other choice to be tabled.
She is making every other British political operator look inept.
She has turned each of them against the other, rather than fighting against her.
Machiavelli has nothing left to teach her.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
yesterdays votes decided nothing.
It decided there should not be a "No deal Brexit". but NON BINDING..... That is to say..... nothing......
It decided that May should take her deal back to renegotiate, but did not say what it wanted to achieve.
It did not say what it wanted in place of the back stop. The EU will not re-engage in such an open ended negotiation.
There is a National border between the EU country of Ireland and the British Northern Ireland.
However that border is not at the moment controlled.
The flow and security demands of goods people and services between the UK and the EU needs to be physically guaranteed. it is clearly not just a paperwork issue.
You can not control product standards, criminals, people, smuggling and security by paperwork. and the EU is well aware of that fact.
A No deal Brexit, automatically creates a defacto border crossing into and out of the EU.
Neither the use of technology nor paperwork will square that circle.
yesterdays votes achieved nothing at all.
In terms of borders.... think America<>Mexico with no controls. it is not even thinkable.
No one wants to return to the running war between the North and South of Ireland.
It decided there should not be a "No deal Brexit". but NON BINDING..... That is to say..... nothing......
It decided that May should take her deal back to renegotiate, but did not say what it wanted to achieve.
It did not say what it wanted in place of the back stop. The EU will not re-engage in such an open ended negotiation.
There is a National border between the EU country of Ireland and the British Northern Ireland.
However that border is not at the moment controlled.
The flow and security demands of goods people and services between the UK and the EU needs to be physically guaranteed. it is clearly not just a paperwork issue.
You can not control product standards, criminals, people, smuggling and security by paperwork. and the EU is well aware of that fact.
A No deal Brexit, automatically creates a defacto border crossing into and out of the EU.
Neither the use of technology nor paperwork will square that circle.
yesterdays votes achieved nothing at all.
In terms of borders.... think America<>Mexico with no controls. it is not even thinkable.
No one wants to return to the running war between the North and South of Ireland.
Altfish
Veteran Member
At the moment much Irish trade to Europe goes via the UK - that is by ferry either Dublin - Holyhead or Rosslare - Fishguard; then drive across the UK to Hull or Dover and onto mainline Europe.
Eire will start to divert this trade to go direct to Europe, possibly Roscoff or Cherbourg - more jobs will go in the UK
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
And yet you took part in it instead of accepting the result of the first referendum in the '70s. You know, the one that actually had a proper mandate as opposed to one side that obtained its win thanks to rigging and law-breaking.
You don't get to define democracy because you don't understand how it works. Also, if you've ever taken part in more than one general election, council election, or European Parliamentary election then you're a hypocrite.
You'll probably have to find something else to call them now. You poor thing!
Notanumber
A Free Man
Hopefully we are getting to the stage where we can put all this animosity behind us and unite as a fully independent nation.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I doubt it. This isn't going away, especially as the younger generations voted overwhelmingly to remain. If we leave now, I suspect we'll be looking to rejoin within a decade. Might even be joining a proper United States of Europe.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Not a chance.
The likes of Johnson, Rees Mogg and Farage will never be forgiven by this nation's youngsters.
Altfish
Veteran Member
I agree about wanting to rejoin BUT are they going to let us in again, especially with all the opt outs we currently have.I doubt it. This isn't going away, especially as the younger generations voted overwhelmingly to remain. If we leave now, I suspect we'll be looking to rejoin within a decade. Might even be joining a proper United States of Europe.