What's your position on the morality of altering ones state of mind recreationally?

[LuisDantas]

It really is best to ask for clarification by creating a Site Feedback thread... but I'm fairly certain that at least by the current understanding of how the law applies, no, it is not possible to post in support of drug use unless those drugs are legal - and marijuana is not considered legal by the Federal US government to the best of my knowledge.

Yes, it makes for a very one-sided discussion. Sorry about that, but it is not a matter of what I want, but rather of how the laws are understood to apply.

 

[Alex_G]

Ok i'm actually going to edit my thread a bit in light of it being a little too close to the nail re the forum rules. (my fault really)

My primary intention was to talk about morality of altering your state of mind (which just happens to often be done with drugs of various kinds)

For continued discussion, turn towards phrasing it 'altering your state of mind' and what you thoughts are regarding the morality of doing so.

 

[SageTree]

Same answer for me.

*Other*
Pro-Choice.

 

[Me Myself]

We alter our states of mind all the time whether purposefully or accidentally.

We do it by acting in certain ways nad also by stimulating us in certain ways. For example, tea alters our state of mind. Sex alters our state of mind. Meditation alters our state of mind, coffee alters our state of mind. Sugar alterrs our stare of mind.

Cheese alters our stare of mind.

If altering our state of mind is wrong, we are plain *****d

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually, Alex G, when you put it that way, I don not object to altered states of mind... as long as it is done organically, which means by allowing the body itself to regulate it.

That means no mushrooms, no herbs of any kind, no chemicals either natural or synthesized, be they legal, prescribed or all-out illegal. But there are breathing and body movement exercises that can cause such states. Fasting, too.

It is an entirely different situation to me because here the body itself participates in the creation of the state and can regulate and calibrate it.

Under such circunstances, and as long as the person can simply decide to interrupt it at any moment, sure, I see it as very valid, often very enlightening.

But once one ingests or injects something, all bets are off; the chemicals will run their course of their own accord, no conscious control available. And no, emetics and the like are not acceptable; they, too, can easily unbalance people, often in a very serious way. A living body should be allowed to regulate itself in order to preserve its health.

Come to think of it, waterboarding probably leads to an alterated state of mind as well. I think it illustrates very well why having the ability to get off whenever desired is an absolute need in my view.

 

[Alex_G]

ah ok, so the result or experience of such things is not where the problem lies for you but rather the means by which you arrive, specifically as you've pointed out.

Changing my thread seemed a small slight to me, as i was essentially asking this new question before but using the example of drugs as its just a common means of doing so. Interesting how a slight and less significant alteration for me made all the difference for you.

Its late here for me now so i'll prob answer better tomorro

 

[Me Myself]

Actually, Alex G, when you put it that way, I don not object to altered states of mind... as long as it is done organically, which means by allowing the body itself to regulate it.

That means no mushrooms, no herbs of any kind, no chemicals either natural or synthesized, be they legal, prescribed or all-out illegal. But there are breathing and body movement exercises that can cause such states. Fasting, too.

It is an entirely different situation to me because here the body itself participates in the creation of the state and can regulate and calibrate it.

Under such circunstances, and as long as the person can simply decide to interrupt it at any moment, sure, I see it as very valid, often very enlightening.

But once one ingests or injects something, all bets are off; the chemicals will run their course of their own accord, no conscious control available. And no, emetics and the like are not acceptable; they, too, can easily unbalance people, often in a very serious way. A living body should be allowed to regulate itself in order to preserve its health.

Come to think of it, waterboarding probably leads to an alterated state of mind as well. I think it illustrates very well why having the ability to get off whenever desired is an absolute need in my view.

Do you ever take tea? Sugar? Cheese? Coffee? Chicolate? Cabrohydrates in general?

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you ever take tea? Sugar? Cheese? Coffee? Chicolate? Cabrohydrates in general?

Quite often, but what is the implication?

I don't think I have ever been "high" from any of those, although I suppose it is possible. If it happened, I would have to take care to avoid it, I guess.

 

[Me Myself]

Quite often, but what is the implication?

I don't think I have ever been "high" from any of those, although I suppose it is possible. If it happened, I would have to take care to avoid it, I guess.

All of those do release chemical reactions in your body that willake you feel differently. They will change our state of mind, making you more active, or "happy" or lethargic, etc.

 

[Alceste]

I'm altering my mind right now.

Mmmmm. Cider.

 

[LuisDantas]

ah ok, so the result or experience of such things is not where the problem lies for you but rather the means by which you arrive, specifically as you've pointed out.

Changing my thread seemed a small slight to me, as i was essentially asking this new question before but using the example of drugs as its just a common means of doing so. Interesting how a slight and less significant alteration for me made all the difference for you.

Its late here for me now so i'll prob answer better tomorro

I don't think it is a minor change at all, personally. It is really akin to the difference between being a trained athlete and carrying a really big weight or exerting oneself without the means to stop once one exceeds his limits.

 

[LuisDantas]

All of those do release chemical reactions in your body that willake you feel differently. They will change our state of mind, making you more active, or "happy" or lethargic, etc.

I don't know about that. Coffee doesn't even change my state of drowsiness, far as I can notice. And I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't challenge any standing laws to get any of those, nor feel tempted because of standing laws, so I don't think the comparison holds very well.

 

[Alex_G]

I don't think it is a minor change at all, personally. It is really akin to the difference between being a trained athlete and carrying a really big weight or exerting oneself without the means to stop once one exceeds his limits.

ye that's what i mean, it was a big change for you, but not so much for me because i was focused on different things. i.e. the very act of deciding to alter ones own mind as being the contentious thing. (my fault for being to focused on my thoughts when framing the initial question)

 

[Alex_G]

I'm altering my mind right now.

Mmmmm. Cider.

nice, what cider is it? i haven't had a cider in quite a while actually. being quite a summer drink i'm sure it'll make a returned appearance in my life soon

 

[Me Myself]

I don't know about that. Coffee doesn't even change my state of drowsiness, far as I can notice. And I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't challenge any standing laws to get any of those, nor feel tempted because of standing laws, so I don't think the comparison holds very well.

I thought we werent talking about laws now but somply about changing our states of mind with outer aids

You never taken some food cause you craved it? That happens with sugar, and ere seems to be studies saying is is a form of (mild in comparison to others) addiction.

Coffee definetely alters mood. Percieving the alteration maye another matter entirely.

 

[LuisDantas]

I thought we werent talking about laws now but somply about changing our states of mind with outer aids

Yep. That is to be avoided, because it is inherently unsafe.

You never taken some food cause you craved it?

Sure. But do you truly think that should be considered an example of a psychoactive effect?

That happens with sugar, and ere seems to be studies saying is is a form of (mild in comparison to others) addiction.

That may well be. I have not made my mind on the matter.

Coffee definetely alters mood. Percieving the alteration maye another matter entirely.

Is that so? Again, I simply never noticed any effect from it. Probably a reason why I rarely drink coffee, and only for the taste or perhaps the warmth.

I am far more of a drinker of "mate", personally.

 

[Alceste]

nice, what cider is it? i haven't had a cider in quite a while actually. being quite a summer drink i'm sure it'll make a returned appearance in my life soon

Lone tree dry Apple.

 

[Kerr]

I voted anti. It basically boils down to that I dont like the whole "altering the state of mind" part, which has to do with me being kind of a control freak when it comes to this (possibly because I dont have much control over my own mind). Im also not sure I think the rewards are worth the risks, so to speak.

EDIT:

Another factor might be that I know people who has worked with addicts and their opinion of drugs hasnt been particular positive. Also, when I say drugs, I am excluding things like sugar and thinking more of things that have a "high" or "drunk" effect, so to speak. I dont drink alcohol either, for that matter.

EDIT 2:

Medication is of course an exception.

 

[Me Myself]

Yep. That is to be avoided, because it is inherently unsafe.




Sure. But do you truly think that should be considered an example of a psychoactive effect?




That may well be. I have not made my mind on the matter.




Is that so? Again, I simply never noticed any effect from it. Probably a reason why I rarely drink coffee, and only for the taste or perhaps the warmth.

I am far more of a drinker of "mate", personally.

Mate is a stimulant.

 

[Me Myself]

We use outer substances to control our state of mind. Most of us at least.

We can drink coffee or mate if we want to be more awake, drink some alcohol for courage or just to be more "social" or "happy" here and there. It is not inherently wrong, its a tool.

Its just a tool. Some tools may be more adecuaed than others depending on the job and the enviroment and the one using the tools, but ultimately, and as I think Alex said somewhere, you can use this tools to keep a balance you like just as much as you can use em to upset a balance you dont like.

Balance can be quite dynamic.

Sure, I d love yo be more courageous without booz, but sometimes some booz gives me at least the courage to dance. Doesnt go any better than it goes when I am completely sober, but at least I try.

If it is my aim, and it achieves it, and I still feel in control and I dont have any unwanted colateral effects, then I accomplished something with an outer aid at I wouldnt have been able to do without it, at least in that specific situation.