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When did Lucifer become Satan
- Thread starter mr black
- Start date
Umm didn't Lucifer become Satan when he was banished from heaven? 1914? So he hung around for a long time after he rebelled? Very generous of god.
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
And here is something taken from a Watchtower mag in 2010 (Sorry, I don't know the exact issue)
When was Satan cast out of heaven?—Rev. 12:1-9.
Although the Bible book of Revelation does not give the precise time of Satan’s ousting, it does mention a series of events that can help us to estimate when he was cast out of heaven. First among the events is the birth of the Messianic Kingdom. Subsequent to that, “war broke out in heaven,” which led to Satan’s defeat and his finally being cast out of heaven.
The Scriptures clearly mark 1914 as the year when “the appointed times of the nations” ended and the Kingdom was established. (Luke 21:24) How soon after that did the war in heaven break out, resulting in Satan’s ousting?
“The dragon [Satan] kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth,” states Revelation 12:4, “that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.” This shows that Satan wanted to dispose of the newborn Kingdom quickly, at the moment of its birth if at all possible. Though Jehovah’s intervention prevented Satan from realizing his wicked intention, Satan was determined and relentless in his effort to do harm to the newly established Kingdom. It stands to reason, therefore, that “Michael and his angels” would waste no time in taking action to remove “the dragon and its angels” from the heavenly scene so that no harm could come to the Kingdom. This suggests that the defeat and ousting of Satan took place soon after the Kingdom’s birth in 1914.
Another factor to consider is the resurrection of anointed Christians, which—as Scriptural evidence indicates—began soon after the establishment of the Kingdom. (Rev. 20:6) Since none of Christ’s anointed brothers are spoken of as accompanying Jesus in the battle with the dragon and its angels, the war in heaven and the ousting of Satan and his demons would have been completed by the time the resurrection of Christ’s brothers got under way.
So, then, the Bible does not reveal the exact time when Satan and his demons were expelled from heaven. Nevertheless, it is evident that this event closely followed the enthronement of Jesus Christ in heaven in 1914.
And here is something taken from a Watchtower mag in 2010 (Sorry, I don't know the exact issue)
When was Satan cast out of heaven?—Rev. 12:1-9.
Although the Bible book of Revelation does not give the precise time of Satan’s ousting, it does mention a series of events that can help us to estimate when he was cast out of heaven. First among the events is the birth of the Messianic Kingdom. Subsequent to that, “war broke out in heaven,” which led to Satan’s defeat and his finally being cast out of heaven.
The Scriptures clearly mark 1914 as the year when “the appointed times of the nations” ended and the Kingdom was established. (Luke 21:24) How soon after that did the war in heaven break out, resulting in Satan’s ousting?
“The dragon [Satan] kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth,” states Revelation 12:4, “that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.” This shows that Satan wanted to dispose of the newborn Kingdom quickly, at the moment of its birth if at all possible. Though Jehovah’s intervention prevented Satan from realizing his wicked intention, Satan was determined and relentless in his effort to do harm to the newly established Kingdom. It stands to reason, therefore, that “Michael and his angels” would waste no time in taking action to remove “the dragon and its angels” from the heavenly scene so that no harm could come to the Kingdom. This suggests that the defeat and ousting of Satan took place soon after the Kingdom’s birth in 1914.
Another factor to consider is the resurrection of anointed Christians, which—as Scriptural evidence indicates—began soon after the establishment of the Kingdom. (Rev. 20:6) Since none of Christ’s anointed brothers are spoken of as accompanying Jesus in the battle with the dragon and its angels, the war in heaven and the ousting of Satan and his demons would have been completed by the time the resurrection of Christ’s brothers got under way.
So, then, the Bible does not reveal the exact time when Satan and his demons were expelled from heaven. Nevertheless, it is evident that this event closely followed the enthronement of Jesus Christ in heaven in 1914.
Not really. Lucifer became Satan when Jerome translated the Hebrew helel into the latin equivalent (the morning star, Lucifer "bearer of light). In the Jewish scriptures, satan is more or less an agent of YHWH, but the/an adversary of humanity. Most of the modern conception of Lucifer's fall from heaven comes from Milton's Paradise Lost.
That's right. He was an angel and therefore a servant of God, until he rebelled. And yes, he is in opposition to man.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
This is a difficult question, as it happened over quite some time. When the Persians conquered Babylon, and thus took control of Palestine, we began to slowly see some Jews being influenced by Zoroastrianism. The concept of duality present in this religion began influencing some Jews to see that there must be some evil force as well.
It isn't right away that Satan gets placed here. We see a number of ideas taking place, but eventually, Satan (which just meant adversary) became a recognized being that took this position of being evil. We see it starting in some Jewish writing in the century or so before Jesus. But it wouldn't be for some time after Jesus that the idea really formed.
It isn't right away that Satan gets placed here. We see a number of ideas taking place, but eventually, Satan (which just meant adversary) became a recognized being that took this position of being evil. We see it starting in some Jewish writing in the century or so before Jesus. But it wouldn't be for some time after Jesus that the idea really formed.
What are your thought's on the account in Job and who do you think manipulated the serpent in Genesis?
Nope.
So it's been longer than that? How could satan have been the ruler of earth ever since the fall of man, allegedly caused by him, when he's still one of god's angels? And not the adversary he's supposed to be? If he isn't the one who has been deceiving man for 6 thousand yrs then who has. Who was it that tempted Jesus? Your story, quite simply, makes no sense.
I don't think you understand me. The title hasatan in Hebrew means "adversary," but
1) The name/word Jerome translated as Lucifer wasn't satan and
2) Helel has nothing to do with satan.
Moreoever, the "adversary" of the OT was simply one of several figures used to describe the suffering of YHWH's people. The more their suffering was due to their errors or the work of lesser servants of YHWH, the less it was YHWH himself. But there was no "rebellion" in the Old Testament. The idea of a single entity responsible for evil emerged later, likely because of interaction with other cultures whose cosmology was dualistic. Even in the NT, the notion of satan isn't fully evolved and neither is the notion of a war in heaven and the devil as a fallen angel. Again, most of the modern conception of Lucifer is due to later works, particularly Milton's Paradise Lost but also earlier works, from so-called gnostic texts to Dante.
Eh? Sorry, I think there are some crossed wires here somewhere. I do believe he is the one deceiving man and the one who tempted Jesus. 1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil one.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Legion is right.
Further the verse that was badly translated had nothing to do with HaSatan, Satan or even Lucifer for that matter. It had to do with the Babylonian king.
Now if you insist on Satan being the Morning Star based on Isaiah 14:12, then the next question I ask is who is the Morning Star in Rev 22:16?
But the evil one has been with god in heaven up until 1914, how can that be?
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Just to add to what I am talking about
Revelation 22:16
English Standard Version (ESV)
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Followed by
2 Peter 1:19
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
Are you sure that Satan is who you think it is?
Revelation 22:16
English Standard Version (ESV)
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Followed by
2 Peter 1:19
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
Are you sure that Satan is who you think it is?
Actually, biblically Lucifer never became Satan. It was based off of mistranslation and some perversion, same as most things were from the OT to NT. The king of Babylon was called 'lucifer' in Isaiah, but only in later translations. In older versions it is 'day star', which was mistranslated to 'lucifer' which actually means 'morning star' of 'bearer of light'. When things like Paradise Lost came out it did not help the name Lucifer out at all haha. Lucifer was a title, same as Satan originally was. Neither referred to a specific being, especially not the same being. Satan was an adversarial being, such as the metaphorical serpent in Genesis or the one who messed with Job in the Book of Job, not specifically this character known as 'the Devil', which did not exist in Jewish beliefs.
Lucifer / morning star / bearer of light all represent the same thing, they are all the same title. In fact, Jesus calls himself "the bright bringer of morning" in Revelations. It was a title, unless you believe Christ was calling himself the Devil haha. That would be an interesting take on it.
Actually, your story makes no sense. This is in keeping with what others and myself are saying. In Christian mythology, Satan fell long before the fall of man. When he came as a Serpent, (metaphorical, serpents did not ever have limbs FYI), he was already evil and against god. This makes no sense with the use of 'lucifer' in Isaiah, which is what you have to realize. The person being referred to in Isaiah was trying to ascend into heaven and he fell into the pit. This is not how the story of the Devil goes. He was in heaven and stood against god, he was not upon the earth trying to ascend. Also, if people were around in Isaiah when 'lucifer' fell, that means man existed before the Devil fell from heaven. Your story, quite simply, makes no sense.
Do you have trouble with comprehending the English language?