When did Lucifer become Satan

[InformedIgnorance]

The NT doesn't give God a brand new personality though. We can see through the OT, and Jewish literature before the time of Jesus, that the idea of God changed. There is a gradual change in how people saw God. It wasn't an all of a sudden new personality starting with the NT.

I mean, we can look at stories such as Jonah, and see a loving God.

Absolutely it was a new personality from OT to NT; perhaps the common contemporary understanding had evolved over that period, however the OT and the NT portrayal of God are almost completely unrelated.

 

[fallingblood]

Absolutely it was a new personality from OT to NT; perhaps the common contemporary understanding had evolved over that period, however the OT and the NT portrayal of God are almost completely unrelated.

Not at all. Again, it was an evolution over time of the idea of who God was. We can look at Genesis, and see a God who is different than the one in Job. We can look at Jonah, and see a God different than the one in Exodus. The idea of God changed.

However, when we get to the later books of the OT (the ones written last), and then examine the work between the OT and NT, then look at the NT, we see a general progression. It is hardly a snap change. Because that wouldn't even make sense, seeing that most of the NT was written by Jews, who were following the OT anyway.

So what do you see as being so different?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Well it is quite simple the God in the old testament punishes individuals disproportionately (eating a piece of fruit or turning around earn death sentences), allows his faithful to be tortured on a bet! Oh, and attempts to wipe out the overwhelming majority of humanity as well as times when he walks around destroying cities full of people or sending his minions to do so. Whereas the God in the new testament loves us all so very much, so much that he now has a Son never before mentioned unless we carefully distort the OT, a Son who is also God and he is going to become a human and die for us! And will forgive just about everything if we believe in him and are sorry that we were naughty...

Nothing alike.

 

[fallingblood]

Well it is quite simple the God in the old testament punishes individuals disproportionately (eating a piece of fruit or turning around earn death sentences), allows his faithful to be tortured on a bet! Oh, and attempts to wipe out the overwhelming majority of humanity as well as times when he walks around destroying cities full of people or sending his minions to do so. Whereas the God in the new testament loves us all so very much, so much that he now has a Son never before mentioned unless we carefully distort the OT, a Son who is also God and he is going to become a human and die for us! And will forgive just about everything if we believe in him and are sorry that we were naughty...

Nothing alike.

You are only describing the God as in the Torah and Job. You are ignoring the God portrayed in Jonah, who shows his love for all humans. You are ignoring the God of justice that is seen in many of the prophets. You are ignoring the God of love and mercy that one can find in the Psalms. Or the God who comes to the aide of his people, even though they constantly turn away from him, as seen in Judges. More so, in the OT, one can also see God forgiving just about everything.

You need to broaden your view of what the OT says, instead of focusing on a small part.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

You are ignoring the God portrayed in Jonah, who shows his love for all humans.

This is a story that begins with god being a heartless being bent on destroying a hundred thousand people, who is eventually swayed by their pleas not to murder them all.

You are ignoring the God of justice that is seen in many of the prophets.

'Justice' is such a subjective term, to which particular incidents are you refering.

You are ignoring the God of love and mercy that one can find in the Psalms.

These are hymns and songs and such, written about god/etc... they do not describe what god has done or his words, only people's experiences (including laments).

Or the God who comes to the aide of his people, even though they constantly turn away from him, as seen in Judges.

Yes, god delivers his people into the hands of their enemies whenever they 'turn' from him and once they cave from the pressure of the brutality, including rapes and murders - he decides to forgive them... yeah that doesnt exactly paint the picture of a well adjusted, kindly god.

More so, in the OT, one can also see God forgiving just about everything.

Only by his 'chosen people', by everyone else he forgives by wiping them out if they do not convert... how tolerant.


You suggest that my reading of the OT is limited, however I would suggest that you cannot escape the implications of those sections - that of a oft-times petty and cruel tyrant

Clearly, that does not match the portrayal in the NT; thus it is a marked change in personality.

 

[Youtellme]

But I want "tellme" to tell us about this war that happened in heaven in 1914, how many were involved, how many casualties, did they use flaming swords, or laser blasters or slingshots? Tell us more I love a good war story, was it like Star Wars? C'mon give!!!!!!

Well, it's got dragons and angles if that ok for you. Anyway, have a read:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels;

8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.