When Does God Start To Burn People In Hell

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
No! You don't need a translation count, but where the Hebrew "she'ol" was translated in the OT it did have the above. Still referring to one's burial place at death. Levite, the Creator GOD remains sted-fast to the Principles and laws HE has made for the right relationship to HIMSELF and all of mankind.
No scholarly work/ideas by mankind can change anything GOD has established---"at this point".
There are no "shades or ghosts of dead people". Yes, the fallen Angels, do/have presented themselves to others---not for any ultimate good.
The "ancients" were not left to "conjecture". JOB knew that there would be a resurrection "in the last days". Malachi was told that the fate of the wicked was to be ashes. Those are truths.
There is no retrojecting on my part, but as one can see in this post of your's, there is much retrofitting to attempt to make the scriptures say contrary.

Yeah, whatever. This is just more Christian fanaticism. Has nothing to do with actual scholarship, and nothing to do with actual Jewish text or theology. It's not even worth responding to.

That's just the truth which you prefer not the hear/understand.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was that Yom Kippur is not one of the three pilgrimage holidays. The three pilgrimage holidays were Pesach (Passover), Shavuot (the Feast of Weeks), and Sukkot (the Festival of Shelters/Booths). Pesach celebrates the Exodus and the coming of springtime. Shavuot celebrates the giving of the Torah and the early harvest. Sukkot celebrates the late harvest and the beginning of the rainy season. None of the three are about atonement of sin. Yom Kippur is celebrated five days prior to the beginning of Sukkot. It is an entirely separate holiday, which actually is concerned with the atonement from sin. Yom Kippur is sometimes associated with the Day of Judgment, but, again, the meaning of this is infinitely different than the Christian idea of "Judgment Day."

Levite, When Moses was given those dates for the Three annual festivals, all males were expected to attend. Those are seen in Lev.23:1-44. That seventh month was a busy time. and GOD'S people were to have their convocations where GOD chose to have HIS Name.
At that time, they had not "possessed" the land and it would be approx.500 years in the future before there was relative peace in the land.(due to their own "stiff-neckedness")

The point is that five days prior to "Sukkot" all the congregation was to be present for the Day of Atonement at the "Sanctuary". Lev.16:7-34 That was to "atone for sins"--none were to absent themselves, or work.(Lev.23:29-30)
Not "sometimes associated", but a yearly event.

 

[sincerly]

There is a saying attributed to George Bernard Shaw that the United States and England are two countries separated by a common language. Perhaps the same may hold true for attempts at interfaith dialogue.

The divide between "faiths" isn't a common language, but separate masters.

 

[Levite]

When Moses was given those dates for the Three annual festivals, all males were expected to attend. Those are seen in Lev.23:1-44. That seventh month was a busy time. and GOD'S people were to have their convocations where GOD chose to have HIS Name....

The point is that five days prior to "Sukkot" all the congregation was to be present for the Day of Atonement at the "Sanctuary". Lev.16:7-34 That was to "atone for sins"--none were to absent themselves, or work.(Lev.23:29-30)
Not "sometimes associated", but a yearly event.

All males were expected to attend if they could. If they were unable, they sent tithes and sacrifices by proxy, and celebrated without sacrifices where they were.

And the commandment to be there is only for the three pilgrimage festivals. I'm sure if one were going on the pilgrimage, and one could afford the extra time traveling, it would have made sense to get there for Rosh Hashanah (the first of the month of Tishrei) and stay all the way through Shmini Atzeret (the Eighth Day of Ceasing, the holiday attached at the end of Sukkot). But technically, the commandment is only to make the pilgrimage three times a year, for the three pilgrimage festivals. Someone who arrived Erev Sukkot (the 14th of Tishrei, the day before Sukkot), stayed for the atzeret he-chag (the first day of the festival, when no work was done), and began their return trip home the following day had fulfilled the commandment for that festival. Likewise with coming Erev Pesach (the 13th of Nisan, the day before Passover), having the seder that night and staying for the first day of the festival, and then beginning their return trip on the following day. One was not actually obligated to remain the entire seven or eight days of festival (Shavuot was only one day, so that was different).

Obviously, if one could make it to the Temple for Yom Kippur, that would've been great. But if one couldn't, one simply fasted and prayed and observed the laws of Yom Kippur where one was, and was still absolved through the sacrifice the High Priest made. Just as in the days since the Temple fell, we fast and pray and observe the laws of Yom Kippur wherever we happen to be, and God accepts our prayers and sincere repentance and grants us atonement.

This is the sort of confusion that can be avoided if one just studies the Oral Torah along with the Written Torah. It's not really easy to see how these things actually work if one only looks at half the Torah.

 

[Glaurung]

I actually find the Jesuits to be, without question, the best thing the Roman Church has ever done. They and their fellows saved what little was left of the indigenous religions of South America, and are some of the best examples of deeply religious individuals accepting the hard facts put forth by science. Religion can be reconciled with science if you are willing to see your holy text as something far grander and more beautiful than a literal documentation of events.

While she doesn't forbid it, the Church has never insisted on a literalist reading of Scripture. Creationists have done a lot of damage to Christianity by their unreasonable views on the Bible.

 

[Desert Snake]

While she doesn't forbid it, the Church has never insisted on a literalist reading of Scripture. Creationists have done a lot of damage to Christianity by their unreasonable views on the Bible.

So it's soup recipes with a fancy cover.

 

[Glaurung]

So it's soup recipes with a fancy cover.

What?

 

[Prophet]

Also, as long as we're asking silly questions, does anyone know what temperature hell burns at?

 

[Nietzsche]

Read the bible -it actually makes sense -people make stuff up about it that doesn't make sense.

Yes, please do. Why is it that whenever a poll is done of people who've read the Bible, non-Christians significantly outweigh Christians? It would seem that the more someone actually reads the Bible, the more they want nothing to do with that faith.

So yes. More people please read the Bible. Cast off thine shackles.

 

[Etritonakin]

Also, as long as we're asking silly questions, does anyone know what temperature hell burns at?

Just the right temperature to produce the desired result.

That was meant to be somewhat humorous -but it is also true.

It might help to make an analogy to something more worldly..... like the "Hell Week" of SEAL training.

"Of all the battles a SEAL (Sea, Air, Land) must fight, none is more important than their first– the battle of mind over body."

They call it hell week because everything about it sucks. However -it produces an end result. Those who go through it are capable of things others are not -and know very well that they are capable of such things.

Those people volunteer, however -but we don't volunteer to be born -or to eventually become perfect.
It is not possible to ask a being before they are created -but God knows the end is worth the process -and that we will understand that later.

The following seem a bit harsh.....
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

...but the end result is more excellent than any can imagine -and the present things will not be remembered. God is responsible for creating us -and he is responsible for finishing the job.

There is ultimately the option to "ring the bell" as it were -but it's a bad decision.

It is also important to consider the state of things at the time of the judgment. At that time -it will be very apparent to all that God exists -because they will have seen him.
There will also be some who have been made immortal -doing well -having a wonderful eternity before them.
Those then "in hell" will have no doubt that doing the right thing is worthwhile -as they are stuck in a very undesirable situation because they did not change their ways before that time.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Though it says that those who would come from thence can not pass to the others, that is not necessarily a permanent situation.

Being in a very undesirable situation and seeing that something very desirable is available is a great motivator -but one must truly become willing to permanently choose to do the right thing -not simply choose a more comfortable state.

The lake of fire is an ultimatum -and a step in the process of perfecting one who was not otherwise perfected -or did not otherwise choose to do well.
It also has the potential to be the complete destruction of those who opt out -because destruction and disobedience can not be allowed into eternity.

 

[dave_]

As i understand considering NT and OT there isn't eternal suffering.OT says everyone will die and there is no afterlife.NT says when Christ returns living and dead christians (with first ressurrection) will reign on earth for a thousand year.But non believers will not be ressurrected for a thousand year.After a thousand year everyone will be ressurrected and judged and non believers will be thrown to the lake of fire.The like of fire means death not suffering.So there isn't any suffering , burning involved.

 

[thau]

I don't think abrahamic god will send a newborn baby to hell that's born to an atheist family.Even though that baby will probably be atheist too.So at what age people are began to send to hell?This is extremely important you know.You have to know when you may get send to hell you will stay there for eternity after all.

I am curious what your objective is with this post? Because to me, you have assumed a knowledge about God and the Christian faith that is totally unknown and very likely false.

So are you using these dubious claims to discredit the teachings of Jesus Christ and turn people away from the Bible? Because your questions are either based on false premises or false assumptions.

Who told you atheists go to hell? How do you know?

 

[dave_]

Read the bible -it actually makes sense -people make stuff up about it that doesn't make sense.

The first to be cast into gehenna are the beast and false prophet -at about the return of Christ.....

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,.....................
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There will also be some who have been made immortal -doing well -having a wonderful eternity before them.
Those then "in hell" will have no doubt that doing the right thing is worthwhile -as they are stuck in a very undesirable situation because they did not change their ways before that time.Being in a very undesirable situation and seeing that something very desirable is available is a great motivator -but one must truly become willing to permanently choose to do the right thing -not simply choose a more comfortable state.

The lake of fire is an ultimatum -and a step in the process of perfecting one who was not otherwise perfected -or did not otherwise choose to do well.
It also has the potential to be the complete destruction of those who opt out -because destruction and disobedience can not be allowed into eternity.

I thought there isn't any suffering involved?How can lake of fire make someone make himself perfected if It means the ultimate death?There is no lessons learned

 

[dave_]

I curious what your objective is with this post? Because to me, you have assumed a knowledge about God and the Christian faith that is totally unknown and very likely false.

So are you using these dubious claims to discredit the teachings of Jesus Christ and turn people away from the Bible? Because your questions are either based on false premises or false assumptions.

Who told you atheists go to hell? How do you know?

Well everyone.Since i am a child they used to say don't do this or you will burn you will go to hell.Majority thinks eternal suffering is real.As i said earlier i just heard that there may be no suffering in afterlife.Everyone thinks sinners will roast in afterlife where are you living?

 

[Etritonakin]

I thought there isn't any suffering involved?How can lake of fire make someone make himself perfected if It means the ultimate death?There is no lessons learned

According to the bible, there is suffering/unpleasantness, etc. -I suppose it could be likened to a more extreme version of being grounded and sent to your room without supper if you don't obey the rules.
If one will not listen to reason and motivate themselves to do right, they are denied that which is pleasant -and in that case subjected to that which is unpleasant -to make them understand that they must change. It is discipline -but if one completely refuses to do rightly, it can also be their ultimate destruction.

 

[dave_]

According to the bible, there is suffering/unpleasantness, etc. -I suppose it could be likened to a more extreme version of being grounded and sent to your room without supper if you don't obey the rules.
If one will not listen to reason and motivate themselves to do right, they are denied that which is pleasant -and in that case subjected to that which is unpleasant -to make them understand that they must change. It is discipline -but if one completely refuses to do rightly, it can also be their ultimate destruction.

But all others in this thread says there isn't any suffering also your quotes from bible doesn't say there is?

 

[dave_]

I am curious what your objective is with this post? Because to me, you have assumed a knowledge about God and the Christian faith that is totally unknown and very likely false.

So are you using these dubious claims to discredit the teachings of Jesus Christ and turn people away from the Bible? Because your questions are either based on false premises or false assumptions.

Who told you atheists go to hell? How do you know?

You asked who told me.Etritonakin told 2 posts ago.

 

[thau]

Well everyone.Since i am a child they used to say don't do this or you will burn you will go to hell.Majority thinks eternal suffering is real.As i said earlier i just heard that there may be no suffering in afterlife.Everyone thinks sinners will roast in afterlife where are you living?

That is precisely why Jesus Christ established HIS Church on earth as a ruling authority, the one He gave "the keys of the kingdom" to. He said to Peter --- "whatsoever you bind on earth shall be held bound in heaven."

So when you get "everyone" telling you who goes to hell they are NOT the Catholic Church. In fact they are guilty of "judging" (read: sinning)

The Catholic Church has formally taught that hell very much does exist. But the Church has never made any declaration of any one person or any one soul who may be there, not even Judas or Hitler. Because they are wise and gifted and the various protestant voices and rogue individual catholic voices who do so otherwise are wrong and "know not what they are doing."

Forget the objection of protestants who site a pope or Church council of the past that declared "There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church" ---- because they have no idea what that means. It does not mean you have to be Catholic, or even a Christian, to be allowed into heaven, so I vehemently reject their translations. (No time to expound on that.)

There are Bible passages that indicate hope for the unbeliever, I will site two:

Acts 10:34-35 “Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”

Romans 2:14-15 “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”

I will also point out that the Council of Vatican II made allowances for hope for the unbeliever and reiterated in the Catholic Catechism --- “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

Maybe us Christian witnesses are our own worst enemies, if not yours, but rest assured that God above is far more merciful and understanding and just than the way many of us dare to portray Him.

 

[jeager106]

I don't think abrahamic god will send a newborn baby to hell that's born to an atheist family.Even though that baby will probably be atheist too.So at what age people are began to send to hell?This is extremely important you know.You have to know when you may get send to hell you will stay there for eternity after all.

I don't believe an actual place called hell actually exists.
I don't think the Abrahamic God has any intentions of burning people.
The ancient hebrew (Jews) never had such a concept, Jesus was a Jew, ergo would not espouse the hell doctrine in His teaching work.
Gehenna, was a garbage pit near Jeruselem Ge-henna the valley of hennon, it's still there.
It was the town dump where bodies of dead animals and dead crimnal were burned to get rid of the stinking bodies, along with any other trash that needed burned.

 

[sincerly]

Also, as long as we're asking silly questions, does anyone know what temperature hell burns at?

Hot enough to render this old heaven and earth back to "without form and void"--so that the new heaven and earth can be made as prophesied.

 

[roger1440]

I don't think abrahamic god will send a newborn baby to hell that's born to an atheist family.Even though that baby will probably be atheist too.So at what age people are began to send to hell?This is extremely important you know.You have to know when you may get send to hell you will stay there for eternity after all.

Why you asking? Do you think you are on the waiting list?