When evangelists knock on your door...

[Hockeycowboy]

The evangelizers are basically coming to your home to tell you that your beliefs are all wrong and theirs are completely right. Pretty rude, IMO.

Maybe their beliefs and yours are the same?

If they are different...I have no problem in learning new things. That's how I look at it...an opportunity to learn something, to expand my knowledge. Just 7 months ago, two Mormons were coming to my home every week. We had some great discussions, we all learned from each other.

It's all in how you look at it.

 

[Jose Fly]

Maybe their beliefs and yours are the same?

That's only relevant if once the evangelists find out you're of a different belief, they apologize and leave.

If they are different...I have no problem in learning new things. That's how I look at it...an opportunity to learn something, to expand my knowledge. Just 7 months ago, two Mormons were coming to my home every week. We had some great discussions, we all learned from each other.

It's all in how you look at it.

That assumes the person being approached doesn't know anything about the belief. And like I described earlier, I have had some very good discussions with JWs who come to my door.....well, they were "good" from my perspective, but they probably didn't see it that way.

 

[calm]

Christian means follower of Christ

I know.

Who really 'follows' Christ in times of conflict? The religious group who refuses to join in killing others, or the one who does? Most of Christendom has built a reputation of supporting bloodshed....

No religion group is free from sin, you too.
For example, in 2015 it was discovered that Jehovah's Witnesses had been hushed up child abuse for decades. (over 1000 cases)
Church 'hid 1,000 alleged abusers'

In his book "The Modern Use of the Bible", minister Harry Fosdick wrote: “Our Western history has been one war after another. We have bred men for war, trained men for war; we have glorified war; we have made warriors our heroes and even in our churches we have put the battle flags. . . . With one corner of our mouth we have praised the Prince of Peace and with the other we have glorified war. So well have we succeeded in blending Christ and carnage, the Gospel and organized slaughter, that recently a missionary in an Oriental country, after an address upon Christian goodwill, was taken aside by a native, who said, ‘You must know that the educated people of this country look upon Christianity as a warring, blood-spilling religion."

Are you part of that? Why?

I didn't kill anybody.

Jesus was executed, that's the important teaching. And what his death means for mankind.

The mode of execution is not important. (If anything, it should be abhorrent. You don't kiss it, and hang it around your neck, do you?)

The cross is holy. (Ephesians 2:16) (1 Corinthians 1:17-18)

Yes, could be...but we accept the Bible's words @ Proverbs 4:18, the path of the righteous "grows brighter and brighter."

How does your light "grow"? Or does your religion still teach the same things it did 400 years ago? Any new "light"?

My light is the Bible, everything I need to know is written in the Bible. If you really believed in God's Word, you would not constantly change your teachings.
My teachings are the teachings of the Bible, so nothing will change because God's Word does not change.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

My light is the Bible, everything I need to know is written in the Bible. If you really believed in God's Word, you would not constantly change your teachings.
My teachings are the teachings of the Bible, so nothing will change because God's Word does not change.

Our beliefs should be based on Scriptures. But even the Apostles' view needed changing at times, see Acts of the Apostles 1:6. Their understanding was incorrect, wasn't it? But they were humble enough to accept clarification.

You don't kill anybody? I hope not!
But if the country in which you lived, asked you to.... What would you do? If the religion you're a part of, does support such....could you be guilty by association?

What did Jesus mean at Matthew 7:21-23? In supporting war...is that 'working iniquity'? It certainly isn't righteousness! I'm glad I'm no longer a part of it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

For example, in 2015 it was discovered that Jehovah's Witnesses had been covering up child abuse for decades. (over 1000 cases)

How could we knowingly 'cover up' such things, when it's well-known that we disfellowship willful wrongdoers?

What does your organization do w/ them?

 

[metis]

No denomination today reflects exactly what's found in the scriptures, but neither should they as all institutions must change with the times, at least to a degree, while hopefully keeping the basic teachings intact.

War is never negated in the scriptures as the Church was not part of the ruling process, but there's no doubt that Jesus taught that love and compassion for all should supersede war. A war of defense only for the innocents was mandated by God in Torah, thus the Just-War Theory holds closer to that than does complete pacifism, especially since Jesus taught that we must do our best to help those unable to help themselves. .

 

[calm]

Our beliefs should be based on Scriptures. But even the Apostles' view needed changing at times, see Acts of the Apostles 1:6. Their understanding was incorrect, wasn't it? But they were humble enough to accept clarification.

Like I said, we have the Bible. Everything we need to know is in the Scriptures. All laws and all teachings are in the Bible. The light is the Bible. If your Watchtower would listen to the Word of God, they would not constantly change their teachings.

You don't kill anybody? I hope not!
But if the country in which you lived, asked you to.... What would you do? If the religion you're a part of, does support such....could you be guilty by association?

I don't belong to any known religious group.

How could we knowingly 'cover up' such things, when it's well-known that we disfellowship willful wrongdoers?

What does your organization do w/ them?

It has been proven that Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia have been hushed up children abuse for several decades. Check out my link.
This has to be report to the authorities. Those who do not do so protect the perpetrators. Such people have to go to prison, only an " exclusion " from the community is not enough to punish.

 

[paarsurrey]

What do you say when members of a religious group (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses) knock on your door, evangelising?

I currently politely say “sorry, I already have a religion” and leave it as that

But the next time it happens I think I’m going to say something outrageous such as “I don’t need religion, I have a direct line to God” (don’t worry, I don’t believe I have a direct line to God!) or make up a religion and tell them I belong to that

How could I disrespect a person or a group of persons who had knocked at my door, whoever religion or no-religion he/they may belong to?
If I am busy at that time, I will tell them to come another specific time when I am free. If I am free, I will entertain them with tea and or coffee and listen to them attentively and thank them for coming to me.

Regards

 

[Deeje]

So, as usual, the best form of defence is attack? How much of what you said is actually true? Following on from what my brother has said...

Jehovah's Witnesses are neither Christians nor do they spread the (true) gospel.

What is the gospel? What is the kingdom? What is the “good news” about it? Please be specific.
How is your “church” fulfilling Matthew 28:19-20 or Matthew 24:14?

They deny that Jesus was crucified on the cross.

There is not a single mention of a cross in the Bible. The instrument used to execute Jesus was a “stauros” which in the Greek is an upright stake. The Romans had several configurations that they used as torture stakes for their victims.....no one knows what configuration they used for Jesus and it really doesn’t matter, because to make an image of the instrument used to put someone you love to death and make an idol out of it is not only bizarre, but breaks God’s law. (Exodus 20:4)

If they had hung Jesus would you make an image of a gallows and put it up on your building used for worship....or make jewellery out of it and hang it around your neck? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope?

They even see the cross as idolatry, but their own founder ,Charles Taze Russel, has had a pyramid placed next to his grave, on which you can see a cross that has fallen over.

It was his original belief that the great pyramid in Egypt was tied into prophesy. He was mistaken, as subsequent study revealed. As has been mentioned, Proverbs 4:18 says that the light on our path gets brighter as we get closer to dawn......closer to Jehovah’s day of reckoning. In those early days, we still had a lot to learn. He would have that pyramid pulled down, but there are laws against desecrating a grave. It is really a monument to how much we have grown. Gradually as we investigated Christendom’s teachings, we eliminated everything that did not come from God’s word.

They deny the divinity of Jesus.

We acknowledge what Jesus himself said.....he only said that was “the son of God”.....there is not one statement by Jesus where he admits to being God. In fact, he said that his Father is “the only true God” (John 17:3) and that we are to worship him “alone”. (Luke 4:8)
There is actually way more scripture proving that Jesus is not God, than the ambiguous verses suggesting that he might be.

They deny the hell.

There is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”. “Sheol” (Hebrew) and “hades” (Greek) are nothing more sinister than the common grave....we all go there. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
There are no immortal souls to go anywhere after death. (Ezekiel 18:4) Souls die. Death in the Bible is the opposite of life......the Bible says that sin results in death. it was the devil who said you won’t die. God told Adam that he would simply die and return to the dust.....no heaven or hell scenario at all. (Genesis 3:19)

So, in order to torture souls forever, they need to be alive and conscious.....yet only the righteous are granted eternal life. Do you see something wrong with that scenario?

In Jeremiah 7:31 we see God lamenting the fact that the Israelites had adopted the despicable practice of sacrificing their children in the fire to a false god.....
“And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.”
Why would God condemn such a practice and then do it himself?

They invent things that have nothing to do with the Bible. They say, for example, that Jesus was made king in heaven in 1914 and that Jesus appointed them as the new people of God in 1919. They also say that Jesus is the angel Michael. Things that have nothing to do with the Bible.

We have evidence from the Bible for all those things.

Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and Mormons (they are all related) are not Christians because they have nothing to do with the Word of God. But the followers are not the evil ones, it is the respective leader. Jehovah's Witnesses only think and do what the Watchtower tells them.

LOL....and this from someone whose beliefs are not based on sound scripture, but on non-canonical writings.....why is the Bible not enough? Who are you to judge what is scripture and what is not “Christian”? JW’s and Adventist’s do share some beliefs in common, but to suggest the we are “related” to Mormon beliefs is just a demonstration of your ignorance. One wonders where your own beliefs originated....certainly not from the Bible. Who are your teachers? Let’s have a look at them shall we?

It is also remarkable that the faith principles of the witnesses have changed drastically over the decades. Some of the teachings have been alternately rejected as false and then "rediscovered" a few years later. This is officially justified by the fact that God supposedly reveals the truth only slowly and step by step ("the light becomes brighter"). For this the term present truth was coined: the individual witness must obey this current doctrine proclaimed by the leadership.

Really?

An example from practice: a young man decides in 1995, against the current teachings, to do civilian service and is excluded for it. A year later, the Jehovah's Witness leadership declared civilian service acceptable. The so-called "renegade", however, was not readily resumed as he disobeyed God's organization. This sin must first be adequately repented of, which depends strongly on the elders' discretion and can last for months, even years. During this time, the above-described ostracism by all other members applies.

This is interesting....where did you glean this? Don’t tell me, let me guess....?

JW’s have made it plain from the beginning that they will not support the bloodshed of the nations. We will not participate in bloodshed nor will we actively support it.

Do the churches who get involved in their nation’s bloodshed truly represent God? Or are they just dupes of their religious leaders who are apparently always ready to justify violence when it is expedient to do so? Are they “part of the world” that Jesus told us not to be? (John 17:16) is being “a friend of the world” more important than being friends with God? (James 4:4) You have to ignore a lot of scripture to participate in politically motivated bloodshed. After all, who really rules this world? (1 John 5:19)

True worshipers of God refuse to be drawn into violence, most especially when the “enemy” turns out to be your brother in Christ as happened in the two world wars of last century. (Matthew 5:44-45)

Here is an excerpt from a sociological study, “More About Justifying Violence: Methodological Studies of Attitudes and Behavior” which states:

“Since the turn of the century, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have consistently maintained their stand of nonviolent ‘Christian Neutrality’ through two major world wars and the subsequent military clashes of the ‘Cold War’ period. Their continuing stand against national service of any form, military or civilian, and their refusal to honor symbols of national identity have resulted in periods of prosecution, imprisonment, and mob action in many countries throughout the world, including the United States, Canada and Germany. The Witnesses, however, have never responded with violence. . . . The teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses stem from their conviction that the Bible is the inspired word of God.”—University of Michigan Press, p. 23.

So you see there is a clear cut difference between “civilian service” that directly supports the war effort and those that are unrelated to it. No compromise.

Your arguments are empty and gleaned from hate sites that will twist the truth and paint a false picture. What is new? Jesus had to put up with the same thing. (John 15:18-21; Matthew 5:11-12)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The light is the Bible. If your Watchtower would listen to the Word of God, they would not constantly change their teachings.

So how does 'light get brighter and brighter', then, to you?

As I showed you, the Apostles had to adjust their understanding

 

[RedhorseWoman]

What do you say when members of a religious group (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses) knock on your door, evangelising?

I currently politely say “sorry, I already have a religion” and leave it as that

But the next time it happens I think I’m going to say something outrageous such as “I don’t need religion, I have a direct line to God” (don’t worry, I don’t believe I have a direct line to God!) or make up a religion and tell them I belong to that

Neither the JWs nor the Mormons have been in our neighborhood for years. However, one time when the JWs did stop by years ago, I was on my way out, and didn't really have time to discuss anything with them, so I just mentioned that my husband is disfellowshipped. The younger JW woman backed up so fast she almost fell off the porch.

I would think that simply telling them that you are either disfellowshipped or an apostate would cause them to leave rather quickly.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

I usually, if I have time, have a conversation with them. They eventually realize that they aren't going to get anywhere and say thank you. Once I said, "Let's hold hands and pray" and they left even faster and said "No thank you". Another time the newer one started shaking because he began to realize that I might have had a good point.

But nice people and they love God.

Oh, bad idea suggesting praying with JWs. They believe that anyone other than themselves would not be praying to God, but to Satan, and they would avoid joining in prayer with anyone unless THEY were the ones initiating the prayer--preferably at a Bible study (indoctrination session) with you.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

So how does 'light get brighter and brighter', then, to you?

As I showed you, the Apostles had to adjust their understanding

Perhaps you should ask yourself that question? JWs state that the "light gets brighter and brighter" yet their history is rife with backpedaling and flip-flops, with "truth" becoming "old light" and then in a few years becoming "new light" once again.

In the JW world, the "light" goes on--dims--goes out--comes on again--and repeats.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Do you live on a tiny island? How did you get to be so lucky?

Perhaps because there is no good "coffee break" place nearby?

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Penguin, why do you persist with this pernicious lie?

I have shown you repeatedly that the medical profession themselves are now aware that blood transfusions are NOT the “life saving” treatment that they were once thought to be.

I linked to a video put up on the Australian Government website indicating that blood transfusions were more dangerous than they ever imagined and that clinicians had to change their entrenched attitudes...urgently.

Watch it again....
For Media | National Blood Authority

Bloodless medicine is now spreading all over the world because transfusion is NOT best practice, and those who cling to it and promote it are the real ‘child killers’.

You don’t seem to realise that blood is a multi million dollar business....you think that they are going to let go of that cash cow? Listen to the physicians on that video from around the world who are experts in their field.....listen for the words “morbidity” and “mortality” and if you know what those words mean, ask yourself if you would want such a treatment for yourself or your children.

Your comments are pure ignorance.

And you continually refuse to acknowledge that there is a vast difference between elective procedures where "bloodless medicine" can be planned for and utilized, and emergency situations where the person is bleeding out and the ONLY option to save their life is a blood transfusion.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Crikey!!! ...what on earth had you been taking????? LSD?

JW's do not carry weapons.....they do not carry out home invasions.....how could you tell that they were JW's? Did the suit and tie give them away? Don't tell me...they used a Watchtower magazine to set your house on fire.

I think you might need to see a doctor and get help with your delusions.... Oh dear.....

Some JWs DO carry weapons these days, although I doubt that any would engage in a home invasion. On the Topix forum, there was a JW from Florida who often spoke about how both he and his wife had concealed carry permits and took their handguns with them everywhere--except for the KH meetings.

He also stated that he would not hesitate to shoot to kill if he suspected that he or his family members were in danger.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

I have never heard of a JW private school either. @Shad says there are. I had never thought of it before but that the JW might run a school in some places where there is little or no education for the children would be a great kindness. But, for free. Jehovah's Witnesses are not known for their kindnesses, so no school. If there is, I'd like to know.

I have never heard of any official JW school. I do know that many JWs opt to home school their children so that they won't be exposed to "worldly" teachings and because there are no JW schools to which they could send their children.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Homepage | New System School
www.newsystemschool.org
They have made legal arrangements to be recognized as a private religious school. This is not a home school satellite situation, but a private religious school with a faculty and non-institutional campus arrangement. We are a non-profit, private religious school created for the children of Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is something new. I guess some entrepreneurial JWs decided that they could profit from the JW fear of "worldly" public schools.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

How could we knowingly 'cover up' such things, when it's well-known that we disfellowship willful wrongdoers?

What does your organization do w/ them?

Excuse me, but I nearly choked laughing so hard at your post. What is well-known by any who have lived the JW life is that "willful wrongdoers" such as pedophiles are quite adept at lying and denying that they have done anything wrong whatsoever. Also, if those "willful wrongdoers" claim to be "repentant," they will most likely suffer no punishment whatsoever, and they know that, unless it is required by law, they will not be reported to worldly authorities.

Very often, these "willful wrongdoers" will claim that the victim simply misunderstood an innocent act, or that the victim is lying, and, since victims are generally children, the judicial committee will almost always believe the "innocent" adult who is being maligned by an over-imaginative child.

The pedophile in my home congregation molested his own three natural children as well as his stepdaughter and her male cousin. He was reported to the elders multiple times, but during the time that I was in that congregation, he was NEVER disfellowshipped, and no one even knew that he had been molesting children for years. That was definitely a coverup.

 

[calm]

What is the gospel? What is the kingdom? What is the “good news” about it? Please be specific.
How is your “church” fulfilling Matthew 28:19-20 or Matthew 24:14?

The gospel is the gospel. What kingdom do you mean, the kingdom in heaven or on earth? All of this is the Good News.
The church fulfills everyone who proclaims the true gospel.

There is not a single mention of a cross in the Bible. The instrument used to execute Jesus was a “stauros” which in the Greek is an upright stake. The Romans had several configurations that they used as torture stakes for their victims.....no one knows what configuration they used for Jesus and it really doesn’t matter, because to make an image of the instrument used to put someone you love to death and make an idol out of it is not only bizarre, but breaks God’s law. (Exodus 20:4)

Jesus clearly died on a cross that proves the Scriptures.
Here is the explanation: Did Jesus really die on the cross? | CARM.org

If they had hung Jesus would you make an image of a gallows and put it up on your building used for worship....or make jewellery out of it and hang it around your neck? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope?

the cross is holy, God himself already prophesied the cross in Genesis. For He said to Noah that he should build the ark foursided. The ark symbolizes the fourfold cross. Through the ark Noah and his family were saved because they believed and through the cross every person can be saved if he believes. Remember one thing, everything, every single detail was prophesied in the Old Testament.

It was his original belief that the great pyramid in Egypt was tied into prophesy. He was mistaken, as subsequent study revealed. As has been mentioned, Proverbs 4:18 says that the light on our path gets brighter as we get closer to dawn......closer to Jehovah’s day of reckoning. In those early days, we still had a lot to learn. He would have that pyramid pulled down, but there are laws against desecrating a grave. It is really a monument to how much we have grown. Gradually as we investigated Christendom’s teachings, we eliminated everything that did not come from God’s word

At least you admit this thing was wrong. Other Jehovah's Witnesses I talked to about it didn't see it as bad. You have to consider that he has a pyramid built where you can see a fallen cross. If you know only a little about occultism, you know what it means.
@Hockeycowboy And Proverbs 4:18 means that faith is getting stronger. But it doesn't mean that people who adhere to the Bible constantly spread false teachings.

There is no such place as Christendom’s “hell”. “Sheol” (Hebrew) and “hades” (Greek) are nothing more sinister than the common grave....we all go there. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
There are no immortal souls to go anywhere after death. (Ezekiel 18:4) Souls die. Death in the Bible is the opposite of life......the Bible says that sin results in death. it was the devil who said you won’t die. God told Adam that he would simply die and return to the dust.....no heaven or hell scenario at all. (Genesis 3:19)

So, in order to torture souls forever, they need to be alive and conscious.....yet only the righteous are granted eternal life. Do you see something wrong with that scenario?

In Jeremiah 7:31 we see God lamenting the fact that the Israelites had adopted the despicable practice of sacrificing their children in the fire to a false god.....
“And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.”
Why would God condemn such a practice and then do it himself?

The Bible teaches eternal hell. (Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10) (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) (Luke 16:19-31) (Mark 9:45-46) (Matthew 8:12)

We have evidence from the Bible for all those things.

Prove it.

LOL....and this from someone whose beliefs are not based on sound scripture, but on non-canonical writings.....why is the Bible not enough?

All my beliefs are based on the Bible.

Who are you to judge what is scripture and what is not “Christian”? JW’s and Adventist’s do share some beliefs in common, but to suggest the we are “related” to Mormon beliefs is just a demonstration of your ignorance.

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons have a lot in common:

• Have an 1800s American origin
• Do not believe in the Trinity
• Believe Jesus was created and a Spirit-brother of Satan
• Excommunicate
• Have been rocked by scandal (Both Russell and Rutherford separated from their wives and spent much time in court not only for freedom of worship, but over business dealings)
• Borrowed symbols and terminology from the Freemasons, such as the all Seeing Eye and the pyramid.
• After Joseph Smith died the church split over who should be the successor. The Watchtower Society split several times with there now being numerous religions that stem from Russell, such as Russellites, Bible Students and Jehovahs Witnesses
• Believe(d) God is on a planet (Russell and Rutherford both taught we would be resurrected to the Pleiades Constellation)
• Feel Christendom is apostate
• Mormons are the only one true religion that you must be baptised in for salvation
• The cross is not a valid Christian symbol claiming that it is a late invention of corrupt Christianity

For more informations: Religions similar to Jehovah's Witnesses - Mormons

One wonders where your own beliefs originated....certainly not from the Bible. Who are your teachers? Let’s have a look at them shall we?

My faith comes from the Bible and my teachers are the prophets and the apostles.

This is interesting....where did you glean this? Don’t tell me, let me guess....?

JW’s have made it plain from the beginning that they will not support the bloodshed of the nations. We will not participate in bloodshed nor will we actively support it.

Do the churches who get involved in their nation’s bloodshed truly represent God? Or are they just dupes of their religious leaders who are apparently always ready to justify violence when it is expedient to do so? Are they “part of the world” that Jesus told us not to be? (John 17:16) is being “a friend of the world” more important than being friends with God? (James 4:4) You have to ignore a lot of scripture to participate in politically motivated bloodshed. After all, who really rules this world? (1 John 5:19)

True worshipers of God refuse to be drawn into violence, most especially when the “enemy” turns out to be your brother in Christ as happened in the two world wars of last century. (Matthew 5:44-45)

It is nice that you do not take part in wars, but firstly you are not free of sins like any other group and secondly you are not the only ones who refuse to do military service.
The Bohemian Brethren, the Hutterites, the Mennonites, the Quakers, and the Christadelphians are all religious groups like you who refuse military service.

So you see there is a clear cut difference between “civilian service” that directly supports the war effort and those that are unrelated to it. No compromise.

You should read again what I wrote.