When is it accetable to hit a woman back? Redefining self-defense

[Trey of Diamonds]

nonsense. We have a moral right to be inteligent. Or at least not that damm stupid. You can kill someone with a good hit of a frying pan. Does it take rocket science? No. You knock down first you explain the woman later that frying pans to the head might be lethal(...if you feel so inclined..)

Which part is nonsense? Have you been in this situation before? I used to date a violent woman and have had a few pots and pans flung my way. The phone hurt worse though, this was back when phones were a lot more hefty than they are today. Anyway, I truely doubt the woman intended to kill but only wanted to hurt. She felt pain emotionally and wanted to respond with physical pain. That does not excuse her actions and you're right, a sensible intelligent person should know that a head shot with anything can be lethal. Obviously this woman was neither sensible nor intelligent.

 

[Averroes]

Which part is nonsense? Have you been in this situation before? I used to date a violent woman and have had a few pots and pans flung my way. The phone hurt worse though, this was back when phones were a lot more hefty than they are today. Anyway, I truely doubt the woman intended to kill but only wanted to hurt. She felt pain emotionally and wanted to respond with physical pain. That does not excuse her actions and you're right, a sensible intelligent person should know that a head shot with anything can be lethal. Obviously this woman was neither sensible nor intelligent.

Regardless of intent she still killed him

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Regardless of intent she still killed him

Agreed, but your question was how to deal with a woman such as this. My point is that she did not intend to kill him and he did not think she was trying to kill him so his response to her as a threat wasn't at the same level as it would have been if she was say coming at him with a knife. When defending yourself you have to guage it according to the level of threat you perceive.

 

[Alceste]

Yea. That's what I don't understand that this dude knows take downs and locks so I don't understand why hejust didn't do it. My only guess is that he felt that the slightest injury on her would land him in jail cause the law will take her side.

Well, in retrospect my brother was pretty embarrassed when he got beat up by a drunk chick in a bar. I don't think he was worrying about legal repercussions or trying to be chivalrous. I think maybe his training desensitized him from reacting to hard blows. IME, when you are actually getting hit in a sparring match, it doesn't feel all that painful. (The pain, if any, comes later.) You just try to avoid the hits, look for the weaknesses in your opponent's technique, and try to take advantage. Maybe keeping a cool, calculating head in a violent situation (the result of martial arts training) has some drawbacks we don't tend to consider.

What you described sounds more like a terrible accident than the type of fight martial artists are trained for. I imagine your friend (and his girlfriend) never expected such a horrific, irreversible result. All we can do is speculate, but I sure wish your friend had done more to defend himself. (In addition, of course, to wishing his girlfriend had controlled herself).

Edit: I should also mention that I'm a little skeptical of my brother's training after taking the same classes. The "art" he seemed to have been learning was looking tough, and didn't seem to have much to do with actually defending yourself.

 

[Averroes]

Agreed, but your question was how to deal with a woman such as this. My point is that she did not intend to kill him and he did not think she was trying to kill him so his response to her as a threat wasn't at the same level as it would have been if she was say coming at him with a knife. When defending yourself you have to guage it according to the level of threat you perceive.

When I get hit, its causing bodily harm and it is a THREAT. Yes since this experience I will restrain but if she continues she is getting punched out no questions asked.

 

[Me Myself]

That does not excuse her actions and you're right, a sensible intelligent person should know that a head shot with anything can be lethal. Obviously this woman was neither sensible nor intelligent.

I agree with this. What I meant (in a rather strong emotional way ) is that even if they have no intent to kill you, they are on the serious posibility of doing so and they have crossed the very serious barrier of verbal offense to physical offense.

So there is othing to "think about" in the moment IMO, but only later after she iscoming to her sdenses hogtied or on a skype/phone conversation and she wants an explanation of why did you hit her after she hit you. THEN "complicated" things may be discussed. In the immidiate moment, is very *** simple.

Now I haven´t been in this scenario, but I do must say it angers me any way of discrimination being tolerated in a supposedly discrimination free place. "Hitting women is wronger than hitting men" is discrimination, at least when they are hitting you. So I get passionate.

 

[dust1n]

I lost a friend last night to domestic violence. The interesting part is he is a man. I mentioned his gender because as a man myself, both he and I grew up with the notion that men aren't supposed to hit women. But after last night, I am not so sure

A brief background.....

My friend was in an argument with his girlfriend at their apartment. Apparently, from what police has told me and the family, my friend was leaving his girlfriend for an unspecified reason. From what I know, they both were on the lease so he was going to move out and live with his mom but continue to pay rent until the lease was up. As he was gathering his things to leave she became argumentative and physical. He did what most men do and just walked away. Apparently it got to the point where he had to go outside and ask for help because she started throwing things at him (e.g. Irons, frying pans). When he finally spotted a neighbor he asked that neighbor to call the police. As soon as this happened my friend's girlfriend came running out the house and attacked my friend. The neighbor panicked and ran away while my friend struggle to restrain her. Somehow she got free ran back in the house. My friend started walking away to get help and like a movie this girl came running out and threw a skillet and it struck him in the back of the head. He died at the scene.

I feel a bit upset that culturally speaking we often see women as weak not just physically but emotionally thus is the reason why parents encourage their boys to not hit girls. But honestly I feel that in matters of self defense I feel if women are trying to attack a male, a man has every right to defend himself against male or female. However this is where it gets tricky. My friend was an MMA fighter and so him hitting her probably would've resulted in him being locked up even if he was defending himself-even if its one punch.

I think self-defense at least by legal standards is meant to protect oneself from bodily harm, but should we encourage men to use self-defense only against other men or would we define this on a general basis? I personally feel if my wife or girlfriend tried to hit me I would restrain her and try to leave or call the cops as my friend did. But I felt like if she continued to assault me as she did my friend I would probably slap the **** out of her, then call the cops.

It saddens me very much how a life can be loss for absolutely no reason. I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry for your loss.

I think if a woman throw something at me, I would restrain them as quickly as possible. Not hurt, but just restrain so stuff wouldn't be thrown at me. But, I really have no clue. I can't imagine anyone ever throwing a cast iron frying pan at anyone for anyone ever, no exceptions. I'm sure she didn't intend to kill him, but there is no excuse for such wrecklessness.

 

[Kathryn]

Agreed, but your question was how to deal with a woman such as this. My point is that she did not intend to kill him and he did not think she was trying to kill him so his response to her as a threat wasn't at the same level as it would have been if she was say coming at him with a knife. When defending yourself you have to guage it according to the level of threat you perceive.

You don't know whether she meant to kill him or not (though it seems obvious to me that she meant to do some serious physical harm to him) - and honestly, I don't think it much matters. She murdered this man, and she should spend many years in jail for doing so.

 

[not nom]

She murdered this man

I'd say it's voluntary manslaughter, not murder. that's not great, but murder is worse.

 

[Kathryn]

I'd say it's voluntary manslaughter, not murder. that's not great, but murder is worse.

That's splitting hairs. It will make a difference in her life, but it certainly won't in his, or his family's.

 

[not nom]

That's splitting hairs. It will make a difference in her life, but it certainly won't in his, or his family's.

yeah, but what she gets punished for kinda is her life, not his or that of his family.

if she aimed for his back, or not at all, or was in her rage not aware what she was throwing and that it could kill instead of just hurt a lot, that's hardly the same as aiming lethally and hitting.

you might say someone who wants to inflict immense pain one someone else is an ******* and should get locked up, but it's not the same as coldblooded murder, and I doubt any judge would consider that splitting hairs. it's pretty elementary. murder is a big word, legally speaking. not that manslaughter isn't. but murder is still another league.

 

[Kathryn]

yeah, but what she gets punished for kinda is her life, not his or that of his family.

if she aimed for his back, or not at all, or was in her rage not aware what she was throwing and that it could kill instead of just hurt a lot, that's hardly the same as aiming lethally and hitting.

you might say someone who wants to inflict immense pain one someone else is an ******* and should get locked up, but it's not the same as coldblooded murder, and I doubt any judge would consider that splitting hairs. it's pretty elementary. murder is a big word, legally speaking. not that manslaughter isn't. but murder is still another league.

I'm not the judge or jury. It's just my personal opinion that she murdered this man.

 

[Mathematician]

Thanks for the well wishes.

Update****

The D.A apparently is pushing for second degree murder. However they told us that she is probably going to plead insanity due to have a baby (post-partum depression) from a previous relationship I believe the child is about a year old. The funeral is tomorrow, and the family is a mess.

I know this probably isn't on your mind at the moment since the loss is so new, but if your family suspects the post-partum reasoning is a lie, I encourage your family to fight tooth-and-nail in favor of second degree murder or at the very least voluntary manslaughter.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've had a woman try to hit me a few times in the past, and when it happened, I found that I was fine with blocking blows if needed, but I wouldn't hit back... however, in those situations, that was all that was needed to extract myself from the situation. If I couldn't get out that easily, I'm not sure how I'd react. I think it's pretty ingrained in me to never hit a woman, so I might be in trouble if a really bad situation ever happened.

 

[Viker]

Sorry about your loss of a friend.

If some one is attacking me with a jab I'd just block them and hold them and possibly press charges later, it were with a knife I'd take it away and do the same. Striking someone is a lot like defensively shooting a gun, it should be reserved for last ditch assistance or under very appropriate circumstances ( like a really big guy that can't be restrained or a crazy out of control dangerous maniac ). Would I ever hit a woman? Likely never. I only punched a few boys back in school. That hurt me just about as bad as it hurt them. I usually talk/walk my way out of a conflict and save my knuckles for handy work around the house.

Beating up on people isn't always a good idea even when it may seem necessary.

 

[Orias]

When she becomes king at a prom.....
Not making light of your story and I am sorry but equality seems to be used more for manipulation then justification.

Yes, and justification seems to be used more for manipulation

 

[Averroes]

So what of a skinny 110 pound guy versus a 260 pound woman and the skinny guy is getting wailed on?

 

[Darkness]

I think that if it was me being attacked, I would restrain myself to a certain extent. Past a certain point however, the "will to life" kicks in and I will defend myself, even if it means hurting her severely. For instance, if a girl comes at me with a knife, it is no-holds-barred. If another girl were threatening a girlfriend or a child, I would probably switch to no-holds-barred mode much more quickly.

 

[Me Myself]

When she becomes king at a prom.....
Not making light of your story and I am sorry but equality seems to be used more for manipulation then justification.

Yes, and it is Man-ipulation, YOU SEE! IT IS ALL A BIG CONSPIRACY TO HIT POOR WOMEN THAT ARE ATTACKING US!

 

[Orias]

So what of a skinny 110 pound guy versus a 260 pound woman and the skinny guy is getting wailed on?

That would just be amusing.

It's like something I saw on worlds dumbest, a drunk guy was making fun of a fat chick because she was fat and three other random fat chicks on the street just started helping her wail in this guy (who was probably around 130 pounds).