When is it accetable to hit a woman back? Redefining self-defense

[blackout]

Interesting point (in that you don't see her as a woman but just as a person). A lot of people who responded here see gender first which determines their subsequent actions. I think its difficult to not see gender first since, as was mentioned here, women are typically weaker (strength wise) than men. I mean, if my GF is five-foot nothing and I'm six-foot two, 230 pounds (this is my actual frame) and I give her an uppercut in fear for my safety and she bruises according to the law and assuming she is lying to police I am in the wrong if she suffers any damage and I don't.

People crazy enough to be dangerous
are a potential risk on many levels.

It is very sad, and injust
how much destructive power
some people inflict on the lives of other good people.

There are many ways to ruin a person's life.
The deliberately manipulative ones
are the hardest ones to escape unscathed.
They are the ones who plan and premeditate,
and ruin lives with no remorse.
They are also the one's who are the hardest
to strike back at in self defense,
as their deadliest attacks are not ones of the 'physical assault' category.
Where physical force is not an issue
the gender of the oppressor is only a matter of interest
on a case specific basis.

These people will not hesitate to use/manipulate the law against you,
in order to uphold their own indefensible behavior/position.

There is nothing more frustrating than watching the law
hand the predator, the victim's head/victims' heads on a silver platter.

 

[Averroes]

Sooooo your answer is yes, its ok to give my GF a Mike Tyson uppercut if my life is in danger?

 

[blackout]

Sooooo your answer is yes, its ok to give my GF a Mike Tyson uppercut if my life is in danger?

That would be up to you.

How much do you value your life?

 

[Averroes]

(Throws the dodge ball back) Soooo do you find it acceptable that a man gives his GF an uppercut if she is threatening his life?


By the way my late friends ex-girlfriend is most likely making a plea. She will be doing some serious time.

 

[Me Myself]

(Throws the dodge ball back) Soooo do you find it acceptable that a man gives his GF an uppercut if she is threatening his life

Yes. also find it acceptable to give an uppercut to anyone who dares look you wrong because you "hit a woman" after that

(okay, the last senctence was a stretch)

 

[Averroes]

Yes. also find it acceptable to give an uppercut to anyone who dares look you wrong because you "hit a woman" after that

(okay, the last senctence was a stretch)

ha! that was funny lol

 

[blackout]

Why are you coming to me for permission?

I already told you how I see it,
three times over.

You do what you feel you need to do.
simple.

 

[Averroes]

Why are you coming to me for permission?

I already told you how I see it,
three times over.

You do what you feel you need to do.
simple.

ok :faint:

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I lost a friend last night to domestic violence. The interesting part is he is a man. I mentioned his gender because as a man myself, both he and I grew up with the notion that men aren't supposed to hit women. But after last night, I am not so sure

A brief background.....

My friend was in an argument with his girlfriend at their apartment. Apparently, from what police has told me and the family, my friend was leaving his girlfriend for an unspecified reason. From what I know, they both were on the lease so he was going to move out and live with his mom but continue to pay rent until the lease was up. As he was gathering his things to leave she became argumentative and physical. He did what most men do and just walked away. Apparently it got to the point where he had to go outside and ask for help because she started throwing things at him (e.g. Irons, frying pans). When he finally spotted a neighbor he asked that neighbor to call the police. As soon as this happened my friend's girlfriend came running out the house and attacked my friend. The neighbor panicked and ran away while my friend struggle to restrain her. Somehow she got free ran back in the house. My friend started walking away to get help and like a movie this girl came running out and threw a skillet and it struck him in the back of the head. He died at the scene.

I feel a bit upset that culturally speaking we often see women as weak not just physically but emotionally thus is the reason why parents encourage their boys to not hit girls. But honestly I feel that in matters of self defense I feel if women are trying to attack a male, a man has every right to defend himself against male or female. However this is where it gets tricky. My friend was an MMA fighter and so him hitting her probably would've resulted in him being locked up even if he was defending himself-even if its one punch.

I think self-defense at least by legal standards is meant to protect oneself from bodily harm, but should we encourage men to use self-defense only against other men or would we define this on a general basis? I personally feel if my wife or girlfriend tried to hit me I would restrain her and try to leave or call the cops as my friend did. But I felt like if she continued to assault me as she did my friend I would probably slap the **** out of her, then call the cops.

I think if a girl wants to get physical she should be prepared to face the consequences. However i don't think hitting her is appropriate.

I had an ex gf wave a knife at me once. I took the knife off her, grabbed her by the front of the shirt and yanked her across the kitchen into the pantry door. Picked her up by the hair and marched her out the door. Some have said i went too far. I disagree i personally feel that my response was proportional.

Let's face it in this time of gender equality the whole "real men don't hit girls" is a little redundant considering the stats i posted in this thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/social-world/107263-men-should-not-hit-women.html

-Q

 

[cablescavenger]

I lost a friend last night to domestic violence. The interesting part is he is a man. I mentioned his gender because as a man myself, both he and I grew up with the notion that men aren't supposed to hit women. But after last night, I am not so sure

A brief background.....

My friend was in an argument with his girlfriend at their apartment. Apparently, from what police has told me and the family, my friend was leaving his girlfriend for an unspecified reason. From what I know, they both were on the lease so he was going to move out and live with his mom but continue to pay rent until the lease was up. As he was gathering his things to leave she became argumentative and physical. He did what most men do and just walked away. Apparently it got to the point where he had to go outside and ask for help because she started throwing things at him (e.g. Irons, frying pans). When he finally spotted a neighbor he asked that neighbor to call the police. As soon as this happened my friend's girlfriend came running out the house and attacked my friend. The neighbor panicked and ran away while my friend struggle to restrain her. Somehow she got free ran back in the house. My friend started walking away to get help and like a movie this girl came running out and threw a skillet and it struck him in the back of the head. He died at the scene.

I feel a bit upset that culturally speaking we often see women as weak not just physically but emotionally thus is the reason why parents encourage their boys to not hit girls. But honestly I feel that in matters of self defense I feel if women are trying to attack a male, a man has every right to defend himself against male or female. However this is where it gets tricky. My friend was an MMA fighter and so him hitting her probably would've resulted in him being locked up even if he was defending himself-even if its one punch.

I think self-defense at least by legal standards is meant to protect oneself from bodily harm, but should we encourage men to use self-defense only against other men or would we define this on a general basis? I personally feel if my wife or girlfriend tried to hit me I would restrain her and try to leave or call the cops as my friend did. But I felt like if she continued to assault me as she did my friend I would probably slap the **** out of her, then call the cops.

Who would you rather be. The guy that walked out and left because his partner was violent, or the one who beats his partner? or sadly, like your friend, the one who was killed by his partner?

It is not surprising that your friend is a man. What is surprising is that the myth that men are more violent than women still prevails.

Women are just as violent as men, lesbian relationships are the most violent. Women also typically receive lower sentences for the same crime.

You can expect your friends girlfriend to desecrate his character in court, and build him up as some torturous physical and mental abusing master manipulator who drove her to it, in order to save her ***. She is likely to get less than 6 years, and has a 1 in 10 of getting off completely.

 

[Songbird]

It is not surprising that your friend is a man. What is surprising is that the myth that men are more violent than women still prevails.

Women are just as violent as men, lesbian relationships are the most violent. Women also typically receive lower sentences for the same crime.

It's not exactly a myth, but female to male abuse is underestimated. Most studies I found said assaults occur at about the same rate between men and women, but death, permanent injury, sexual assault, and severe injuries are more common male to female. Men are much more likely to leave a physically abusive relationship than women, but less likely to say anything about being abused.

Domestic Violence Resource Center | Domestic violence statistics

 

[Faxecura]

Who would you rather be. The guy that walked out and left because his partner was violent, or the one who beats his partner? or sadly, like your friend, the one who was killed by his partner?

It is not surprising that your friend is a man. What is surprising is that the myth that men are more violent than women still prevails.

Women are just as violent as men, lesbian relationships are the most violent. Women also typically receive lower sentences for the same crime.

You can expect your friends girlfriend to desecrate his character in court, and build him up as some torturous physical and mental abusing master manipulator who drove her to it, in order to save her ***. She is likely to get less than 6 years, and has a 1 in 10 of getting off completely.

I have a few friends who live in the States who was dragged through the mud in court by his ex-wife. One of them had his wife pull a knife on him. Being that he was a security guard and also a martial artist, he was able to disarm her easily, but not after getting a laceration on his arm, and giving her a bruise.

Come court day, the (female) judge, hearing testimony from the female police officer, lets the ex-wife get off completely, even got custody of the kid, while my friend was sent to jail for a year. The judge even implied that he stabbed himself to frame the ex-wife and lied in court.

You can't make these things up. Sometimes the legal system is just rotten to its core.

I think it's a part of the prevalent culture: women are viewed as innocent, and in he-said-she-said, they're always right.

[youtube]cua11Rb_GG8[/youtube]

 

[cablescavenger]

It's not exactly a myth, but female to male abuse is underestimated. Most studies I found said assaults occur at about the same rate between men and women, but death, permanent injury, sexual assault, and severe injuries are more common male to female. Men are much more likely to leave a physically abusive relationship than women, but less likely to say anything about being abused.

Domestic Violence Resource Center | Domestic violence statistics

I am sure those figures would be different if they were done from the ground up.

I would prefer an independent poll the figures change dramatically when the couples feed into it ...
Discrimination against Men

 

[Songbird]

I am sure those figures would be different if they were done from the ground up.

I would prefer an independent poll the figures change dramatically when the couples feed into it ...
Discrimination against Men

I'm not sure what you mean. In one of my gender studies classes, we looked at hundreds of studies involving sexism, roles, discrimination, the work place, and the social evolution of gender description. Most abuse studies consistently show about equal occurrence of assault (actually most show slightly more male to female violence), with the bulk of assaults for either gender going unreported. The Discrimination Against Men site is one of many new men's rights sites, and this particular one uses quite a bit of emotionalism. (Hello, The Scream?) Of course, there's some pretty brutal discrimination against men, particularly regarding paternity and domestic abuse, and there are even more women's rights sites that appeal to emotion.

It's pretty tragic in a case like the OP, where a man may be afraid of repercussions if he defends himself against assault from a woman.

 

[cablescavenger]

I'm not sure what you mean. In one of my gender studies classes, we looked at hundreds of studies involving sexism, roles, discrimination, the work place, and the social evolution of gender description. Most abuse studies consistently show about equal occurrence of assault (actually most show slightly more male to female violence), with the bulk of assaults for either gender going unreported. The Discrimination Against Men site is one of many new men's rights sites, and this particular one uses quite a bit of emotionalism. (Hello, The Scream?) Of course, there's some pretty brutal discrimination against men, particularly regarding paternity and domestic abuse, and there are even more women's rights sites that appeal to emotion.

It's pretty tragic in a case like the OP, where a man may be afraid of repercussions if he defends himself against assault from a woman.

My apologies :sorry1:. I perhaps wasn't clear. What I was trying to say was that individual testimony from the people perpetrating the violence is more accurate than derived studies from crime statistics (which is what I mean by from the ground up).
Govt stats often go on reported crime which immediately skewers the data, because of the under reporting from men.

I do not know about the site you mentioned, but MORI who did the poll are an independent Market Research Company that conduct personal interviews. It is also direct feedback, from the perpetrators and will capture data that would normally go unreported.

I looked into this about 1999, and found pretty much a 50/50 split in violence, which is why I said it was a myth that men were more violent. You wouldn't think it was so close given societal beliefs, attitudes towards men, criminal sentencing, family law, and protection available to women and lack of protection for men, which all lean heavily in favour of women, where inter relationship violence is present.

Also bear in mind the UK is different culturally from the US, so your figures will vary from mine, and our results will differ.

 

[Averroes]

Interesting response. Its highly probable that abuse perpetrated by women to men go unreported

 

[Songbird]

My apologies :sorry1:. I perhaps wasn't clear. What I was trying to say was that individual testimony from the people perpetrating the violence is more accurate than derived studies from crime statistics (which is what I mean by from the ground up).
Govt stats often go on reported crime which immediately skewers the data, because of the under reporting from men.

I do not know about the site you mentioned, but MORI who did the poll are an independent Market Research Company that conduct personal interviews. It is also direct feedback, from the perpetrators and will capture data that would normally go unreported.

I looked into this about 1999, and found pretty much a 50/50 split in violence, which is why I said it was a myth that men were more violent. You wouldn't think it was so close given societal beliefs, attitudes towards men, criminal sentencing, family law, and protection available to women and lack of protection for men, which all lean heavily in favour of women, where inter relationship violence is present.

Also bear in mind the UK is different culturally from the US, so your figures will vary from mine, and our results will differ.

No worry. Ah, yes, I'm not familiar with UK stats. In the U.S., male to female violence resulting in injury or death is drastically higher than female to male, hence my comment that it's not exactly a myth even though less violent assault is more evenly divided.

 

[Meow Mix]

Now I know it's not PC, but sometimes you just gotta lay the smack down on a ***