When will we acknowledge sexism and violence against men is just as real?

[cablescavenger]

I point you to this lovely gem of journalism where the author devotes the entire article to making fun of the male victim for having his scrotum ripped off.

Angry ex-girlfriend goes ballistic, rips off man

There was also a recent incident where the women on the View showed a callous disregard for a different man who had his penis cut off by an angry spouse.

We are not talking about comedy halls where anything goes. We are talking about mainstream media and television outlets making fun of men who are victimized by women.

Males are more likely to successfully commit suicide after a divorce; they have virtually no reproductive recourse, further stunted by family courts that consider a penis a disadvantage; they are far less likely to attain a high school diploma, bachelor's degree, and now attend non-STEM graduate programs; among 22-30 years men make 8% less than women; as boys they're far more likely to be disciplined and misdiagnosed; as men they serve longer sentences for the same crime, yet 40% of domestic violence victims are men where the perpetrator was a women. We laugh when a woman on television slaps a man, but if a woman is even portrayed in bad light, organizations like NOW yell until it's repealed. When will society wake up that systematic sexism is not limited to one side of the equation?

There's been a lot of questions raised about why men are dropping out of society and not committing to marriage. I think the answer is clear. There's really no place for the average man nowadays.

There are loads of studies to support what you say but for some reason society doesn't support the findings. It is institutional.

 

[apophenia]

There are loads of studies to support what you say but for some reason society doesn't support the findings. It is institutional.

Absolutely correct.

Feminism never matured to the point where these kind of issues could be dealt with. They are, as I have already stated, not as common as the 'situation-normal' denigration of women once was. But that is not to say that there are no issues whatsoever nor ever have been, which as you can see is the default position now.

Reading the replies in this thread reminds me of the cavalier dismissal of women's rights issues when I was a young boy. There is a similar quality of "you're just a whinger" arrogance and smugness which usually goes with ignorant denial.

The facts of life are that there are significant numbers of women who systematically abuse men in various ways, including physical violence. They get away with it because of a bunch of inter-related reasons.

The main reason is the effect of decades of political correctness, which as you say is institutionalised. Then there is the peculiar reason of the continuance of the kind of gender stereotypes which feminism alledgedly addressed - that women are gentle and non-violent, and that men are tough physically and emotionally and in no need of any support.

I have also seen various posts in different threads which ridicule the notion of physically abusive women on the grounds that that couldn't pose a real threat to a man, because men are inherently stronger. That view is hopelessly ignorant of how things really work out. Men who are being attacked by women ( and I have seen plenty of cases) don't want to retaliate with force, precisely because they are generally much stronger and could do so much harm.

Also, if a man defends himself physically, it is almost a certainty that his actions will be interpreted as violent aggression. That's just the way it is - and there are women who exploit this. Usually these women also exploit the fact that there are children involved, and the man will almost certainly lose custody if there is the merest indication that he ever used any physical force - the self-defense factor will be ignored or ridiculed, as you see here on this forum.

The smug, arrogant, politically correct who shrug off this issue as some kind of joke simply do not know what goes on in the world around them, or are perhaps in denial for some reason. I could describe plenty of examples of female abuse of men (and children) which I have observed, but to be honest I can already predict the howls of indignance and/or jeering which are so reminiscent of the ugly male chauvinists' attitudes to feminism which I recall from my youth.

 

[rageoftyrael]

Yeah, i've definitely had women take blatant advantage of the fact that a man can't strike them, even in self defense. The problem here, is ask the average man, and he will say you can't strike a woman for any reason. I am a very gentle person, and not at all violent, but even i see how that attitude is ludicrous. If a woman punches me, i should have every right to hit her back, as per self defense laws. The problem is that if you strike a women, even in self defense, if she has any male friends, they won't care what the provocation was, they'll come after you. It would almost be better to just take whatever the woman decides to throw your way than retaliate in any way and get your butt kicked because some random guy friends, ignorant of the situation, will immediately side with the woman. Obviously, if a woman slaps you, and you turns around and bust her jaw, you've overdone it. Though to be honest, if a woman ever slapped me, she better have a dang good reason, because i would not tolerate that in a relationship. But that's me.

Also, I know i'm not the only one who's heard of the law being warped to protect women. In scenarios where a man would be tossed in jail, and the key thrown away, if a woman does the same thing, it seems like everyone looks for some kind of justification to keep them from going to jail. Why?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I look at it this way. I was raised to never raise my hand against a woman. I never have and most likey never will. I will say this, if a woman comes at me with a ball bat or a butcher knife, all deals are off.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I agree, feminism is growing like aids. At least they aren't like men were though:

I've never been told by a woman to "get back in the garage!" "make me an engine!"

No, but when something goes bump in the night, who has to check on it? When a tire goes flat or the toliet keeps running, who is looked at to deal with it? Women don't open doors for men or pull out their chair at dinner but they sure like it when you do.

The neighbor lady came by the house and asked me to look at her car that would not start. I said, sure, I will get right to it. While I am looking at your car, go into the kitchen and make me a sammich. She looked at me like, make your own sammich.

Uh huh, equal rights my ****.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I get it.

I ask again: how can women like me support you?

 

[Storm]

No, but when something goes bump in the night, who has to check on it? When a tire goes flat or the toliet keeps running, who is looked at to deal with it? Women don't open doors for men or pull out their chair at dinner but they sure like it when you do.

The neighbor lady came by the house and asked me to look at her car that would not start. I said, sure, I will get right to it. While I am looking at your car, go into the kitchen and make me a sammich. She looked at me like, make your own sammich.

Uh huh, equal rights my ****.

Well, the way you tell it, I don't blame her. She asked for a favor between friends, you issued a classic order to an inferior.

 

[Songbird]

I'm curious how many men here have needed medical treatment due to violence from a woman, and vice versa.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm curious how many men here have needed medical treatment due to violence from a woman, and vice versa.

This could get personal. And fwiw, if we were to open that door, it could be turn into a valuable and enlightening discussion over the similarities in the human experience, or it could turn into a competition over who's got more battle scars.

I know the aim is the former. :yes:

 

[apophenia]

I get it.

I ask again: how can women like me support you?

Good question and I appreciate that you mean it. I suppose it is just like the early days of feminism - consciousness raising and being open to recognition of the situation and willing to make changes. I will make some more comments later, I've just finished dinner and some nice red wine but your post(which I've just now read) deserved an immediate response.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness.

 

[Songbird]

This could get personal. And fwiw, if we were to open that door, it could be turn into a valuable and enlightening discussion over the similarities in the human experience, or it could turn into a competition over who's got more battle scars.

I know the aim is the former. :yes:

Toootally. I don't want to poll RF - I'm curious how many people have experienced what we're talking about, or if most of us are theorizing.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Toootally. I don't want to poll RF - I'm curious how many people have experienced what we're talking about, or if most of us are theorizing.

I have shared some of my experience as a survivor.

 

[apophenia]

I'm curious how many men here have needed medical treatment due to violence from a woman, and vice versa.

I could describe some fairly awful acts of violence including one which left me with a cracked vertebra in my neck, but that isn't actually the worst damage done. The worst damage is psychological and inflicted on myself and my daughter. In my case, the woman was probably clinically a psychopath, but no diagnosis was done on her to my knowledge, that definition is the opinion of psychiatrists I have spoken with.

Psychopaths often get away with murder (sometimes literally), because they are usually high IQ and very skilled socially.

In my case, the woman had an IQ of about 150, was hypersexual and a talented artist. She was also quite conscious of her manipulation pf people, in fact proud of it, sometimes boastful. She knew full well how to use gender politics, and her sexuality, to garner sympathy and support, and managed to convince many people that she was a victim. Some of those people (men) have since offered their sincere apologies to me and acknowledged that she led them around by the dick while convincing them of my evil nature, and using them in various ways.

The prevailing political correctness empowered her. Her position was always secure because no-one was prepared to believe that a woman would behave that way. I did not fully grasp what was happening until I had already fathered a child to her.

Admittedly, this is an unusual case, but political correctness empowered her.

Songbird - I have no doubt that far more women are physically abused by men than the other way around, and not just in third world backwaters. I'm not ignorant, and I'm not sexist. Psychologically and socially however, lots of women wreak havoc in men's lives, I have seen plenty of examples, and unfortunately political correctness often supports them and causes great distress and despair for many men (and male children).

 

[Songbird]

I could describe some fairly awful acts of violence including one which left me with a cracked vertebra in my neck, but that isn't actually the worst damage done. The worst damage is psychological and inflicted on myself and my daughter. In my case, the woman was probably clinically a psychopath, but no diagnosis was done on her to my knowledge, that definition is the opinion of psychiatrists I have spoken with.

Psychopaths often get away with murder (sometimes literally), because they are usually high IQ and very skilled socially.

In my case, the woman had an IQ of about 150, was hypersexual and a talented artist. She was also quite conscious of her manipulation pf people, in fact proud of it, sometimes boastful. She knew full well how to use gender politics, and her sexuality, to garner sympathy and support, and managed to convince many people that she was a victim. Some of those people (men) have since offered their sincere apologies to me and acknowledged that she led them around by the dick while convincing them of my evil nature, and using them in various ways.

The prevailing political correctness empowered her. Her position was always secure because no-one was prepared to believe that a woman would behave that way. I did not fully grasp what was happening until I had already fathered a child to her.

Admittedly, this is an unusual case, but political correctness empowered her.

That's awful! Peace to you. She does sound psychopathic. I hope you're able to be far, far away from her.

I don't want to tease out painful stories from people by asking who's experienced abuse. I'm merely wondering, as people comment, what their experiences are.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, the way you tell it, I don't blame her. She asked for a favor between friends, you issued a classic order to an inferior.

Why on earth are men looked at as mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, furniture movers and such and that is not sexist but asking for a sammich is?

It can be pouring rain like cats and dogs and if there is a flat tire who gets wet to change it? Women can't repair toliets or change tires? It's just as sexist to sterotype men and expect them to do these things as it is to ask for a sammich.

I asked for the sammich to make a point. I don't need a woman to cook, clean or do anything else for me. As a man, I wash my own clothes, clean the bathroom, cook and keep the kitchen clean, do the shopping, vaccume and the yard work, take out the trash, watch the grand babies, and feed the pets all the time.

As a man, I don't look at these chores as women's work, it is just things that need to be done and my wife does not feel like doing these things either after working all day. I do these things because they need done and I fail to see why I would not be expected to help around the house.

I am a modern man. Too bad many women think that these sterotypes are not a two way street and refuse to do something outside their comfort zone. Men are not born knowing anything about cars and as long as women depend on men to do these things, they will never learn any better. I believe they know this and adopt the poor little helpless me act to get men to do things for them. That is no better than a lazy man wanting a sammich acting helpless in the kitchen.

 

[tomato1236]

If anyone discriminates against my maleness, I'll just beat them.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I read this post to my wife and she said I made this sound like she does nothing. She said to mention that she trims trees and many times works on Saturdays with me doing electrical work among other "guy chores". We work as a team and don't have a traditional relationship with men's jobs and women"s jobs. It's all chores and no one likes to do many of these things but they need done.

 

[Songbird]

Why on earth are men looked at as mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, furniture movers and such and that is not sexist but asking for a sammich is?

It can be pouring rain like cats and dogs and if there is a flat tire who gets wet to change it? Women can't repair toliets or change tires? It's just as sexist to sterotype men and expect them to do these things as it is to ask for a sammich.

I asked for the sammich to make a point. I don't need a woman to cook, clean or do anything else for me. As a man, I wash my own clothes, clean the bathroom, cook and keep the kitchen clean, do the shopping, vaccume and the yard work, take out the trash, watch the grand babies, and feed the pets all the time.

As a man, I don't look at these chores as women's work, it is just things that need to be done and my wife does not feel like doing these things either after working all day. I do these things because they need done and I fail to see why I would not be expected to help around the house.

I am a modern man. Too bad many women think that these sterotypes are not a two way street and refuse to do something outside their comfort zone. Men are not born knowing anything about cars and as long as women depend on men to do these things, they will never learn any better. I believe they know this and adopt the poor little helpless me act to get men to do things for them. That is no better than a lazy man wanting a sammich acting helpless in the kitchen.

I'm glad you clarified, Rick.

I don't know what other experiences are like, but when I got my first car, I begged my parents (my dad, really, since my mom didn't know) to teach me how to maintain it. I repeatedly, over several years, asked my dad to show me how to change a tire, check the oil, etc. He once, very impatiently, showed me some basics. However, he spent copious amounts of time with my brothers, even showing them how to change brake pads! I'm still grumbling that I also begged him to teach me to play drums, like he taught my brothers. Same with SQL and JavaScript, which served to get my brothers IT jobs later.... But oh well.

It was swimming upstream to try to learn car maintenance since then. It was just odd to people, including my husband, that I wanted to know basic car care! In another thread, I mentioned that I go to great lengths to teach both my daughter and my sons the same qualities - compassion, hard work, honesty, and resilience. I want them all to know basic life skills that will allow them independence.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think it's a general poor little helpless me act, for the most part. It's that we continue to raise our sons with certain skills in mind and our daughters with others. If that creates double standards, then we should address it.

 

[Storm]

Why on earth are men looked at as mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, furniture movers and such and that is not sexist but asking for a sammich is?

How is that remotely related to what I said?

 

[apophenia]

That's awful! Peace to you. She does sound psychopathic. I hope you're able to be far, far away from her.

I don't want to tease out painful stories from people by asking who's experienced abuse. I'm merely wondering, as people comment, what their experiences are.

There is so much more I could say about my story and stories of other men I know, but the peculiar thing is I have just lost all inclination to do so. I may explain that some other time.(I may not).

I do appreciate the responses from yourself and Mystic Sangha, because it has been difficult to maintain a sense of sanity at times, simply because the abuses were bad enough (and separation from my daughter unbearable), but then to be forced into silence or face accusation and ridicule because of people's PC prejudice turned that distress into very caustic bitterness.

It was the recognition of my situation by a woman, a social worker in her 60s who was well aware of abusive females and of the prevailing unchallengeable feminist politics, which probably prevented me from going insane at a crucial point in my life. She was the only woman I had ever met who acknowledged the situation which was doing my head in totally.

So in response to Mystic Sangha's question "How can women like me support you ?", the answer is - use your head and your heart to assess a situation, not anyones dialectic. Simply be aware that women are not all saints, and some men get badly damaged and socially compromised, with a little help from conditioned ideologies which replace considered judgements.

Love and goodwill to you both.