I think most folks confused my 'conservatives' meaning. I wasn't talking about the toddlers at Whitehall.
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Where Are All The British Conservatives?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
I'm not a Tory; I don't support the Tories. I think folks are confused about my OP. I mean small c conservatives.
exchemist
Veteran Member
That's not a fair comparison at all. Supporting Brexit is a political position. Political views can be freely challenged in a liberal democracy - and ridiculed, too.
And it's not as if Brexiters don't count. On the contrary, Brexit supporters won the referendum. But that does not mean the political argument is over, any more than Labour party supporters all pack up and go home if Labour loses a general election.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
Are you not a conservative with a small cee?
Secret Chief
Very strong language
Ah well it was all upper case, including the cee!
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
We’re a small c conservative country, I think. Even our socialist traditions owe more to Methodism and Unitarianism than to Marx and Engels (though Marx is buried here. In beautiful bourgeois leafy Highgate)
I mostly stay out of the Brexit debate these days. It’s done, time to move on and let the wounds heal. Might take some time though.
They can but I'd prefer an adult debate to this 'Oh look at the stone age people voting xyz.' It's not helpful, it's a needless jab, it doesn't benefit anyone. I have debates with my beau over issues like this and he's even a different religion to me and we manage to have civilised disagreement. I understand why many want to be in the EU and why many would support more leftist or rightist policies than mine, whether socially or economically. I have changed my mind owing to such debates with folks. I find myself still in two minds on many issues. I just don't find it at all respectful to shut people down with 'we're in X year, get with it', basically.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
In the UK politicians rarely if ever flout their religions. Until modern times Catholics could not even stand for public office.
There have always been many Jews in politics But most people would only recognise Prime minister Disraeli as having been Jewish, but even he became an Anglican aged 12.
Abortion is largely seen as a Catholic Issue in most of the UK. except for norther Ireland where all parties are against it. But by a quirk of the legislature it has been legal since 2019.
Southern Ireland, a catholic country, made abortion legal in 2018. For the most part British people do not care what religion or none, a politician holds. Unlike the USA neither religion nor abortion are significant issues in Political candidacy. Neither are seen as conservative issues.
At one time the Anglican Church was seen as the conservative party at prayer.
This has not be the case for many years, and if anything the Church and its leadership have moved firmly in to the social justice camp. And are far more likely to support socialist and liberal issues.
I would no longer know where to find groups of Tories in a social context, except where they are politically active.
I see more as venting by people who have been hurt, speaking out against the people who hurt them.
Brexit caused real harm to real people; I think a lot of people have the right to be mad about it... even if you think that the benefits of Brexit (whatever you think they are - I personally don't see many) outweigh the harm it inflicted.
Wasn't this mostly a political move by his whole family, iirc?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
For the record, I think you're confusing him with Tim Farron. Clegg has stated that he doesn't believe in god (although he's married to a catholic). At the time, he was actually the only 'out' atheist party leader in England.
Yes! Haha.
No, you'd be a colonialist
Are you a member of a political party?
No.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Who? Me? Not really. I'm too centrist, really.
I supported Thatcher's initial reforms in the 80s, but not the manic free market worship that came later. I'm generally in favour of private enterprise, suitably controlled by regulation. I'm in favour of redistributive taxation to support our social services and prevent too big a gulf between rich are poor, as that is always corrosive to social cohesion. I support traditional institutions like the churches, the Monarchy and the House of Lords, and traditional expressions of culture. I'm generally proud of Britain's past, though obviously there was plenty that was wrong, too. I think the normalisation of homosexuality is a good thing - though I hate the axe-grinding agitprop we sometimes seem to get in the media about it. And so on and so forth.
And..........on foreign affairs, I think Macmillan was right to see the UK's place, post-Suez, as being a big player in Europe. Thatcher agreed with that too, at least until she starting going a bit bonkers, and so did Geoffrey Howe, Major and Cameron. I think the UK played that role with a great deal of success for 40 years, actually.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Sadly, I think that is just the nature of the internet (and to an extent, humanity). All sorts of type of people are made fun of, directly or indirectly. Having more people like you on the forum isn't going to change that (it often doesn't help since every grouping has it's idiots and trolls who just make things worse). The best you can usually do is just ignore all the trash, regardless of who it comes from.
As I said, Brexiteers are currently a clearer target than Remainers at the moment because Brexit happened so it is their promises and predictions that are now being actively tested. That can and should be a focus for rational discussion of the realities we all now in rather than replaying the referendum though. Nothing has turned out as anyone expected, with Brexit specifically or other things that have thrown massive spanners in the works, so frankly, anyone who is still playing out the same arguments as they did before the referendum either way deserve to be mocked.
Audie
Veteran Member
No, you'd be a colonialist
In the good book, the people cry out,
"Give us a king!"
Nobody called THEM conolalisists.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
And I am in the independent state of Saddleworth West Yorkshire. Which had a very liberal tradition but now linked under Oldham Lancashire. which has a Labour tradition. It was marginal on the brexit issue.
The fishing issue strongly influenced the North East as did the farming community. However things seem worse now for both.
As is the case for much of the area that can no longer rely on EU financial support. Places like Harrogate and Leeds have always had large numbers of small c Conservatives, most of whom do vote that way, even though they only carry a majority in a few places.
Un like Kent where there is a strong tradition of working classes voting Conservative, In most of the North where most of the working and middle classes voted Labour.
Today there is no such clear divides and it is impossible to define peoples voting intentions by they class or work profiles.
However as a whole the population of the UK is largely left of centre. People with a small c bent are indeed somewhat homeless, as they are in something of a no mans land, much like the traditional Liberals are.
True. Not you though. I'm curious.
You and the leave voters have staved off joining the EU for another ten years, or perhaps longer. Your movement is doomed to fail, and another vote will come up eventually. Your country will rejoin the EU. It is a foregone conclusion that your irrational position will be overrun with wisdom and steady pressure.
You reacted. They were threatening to take away your EU membership if you didn't comply with ever increasing unity. They did it with soft language though, first giving you the benefits of EU trade then saying to keep it you had to conform to increasing rules and regulations from authorities external to your own government. Your government was slowly becoming a puppet government -- something to rubber stamp common sense coming from Belgium. Rejecting this you rejected common sense. You spit in the face of a global peace effort. How does it feel? Don't you feel guilty? Duped by the leave party lies?