Where Are All The British Conservatives?

[F1fan]

I mentioned in another thread that RF feels swamped by Remainers. Most of the Brits on here are pro-EU. I don't mind that; have your own opinions - but why is this place specifically housing so many? Where are all the British Brexiteers on here? I'm not looking for a Brexit argument; I want to know where all the British conservatives are. And while were at it, where are all the British crazy religious fundies like me? I've put this in political debates because it seems more a political issue to me.

Sometimes it's incredibly lonely and frustrating being on here, trying to form a community, when it feels everyone is mocking you because of the way you voted.

CONSERVATIVE BRITS, WHERE ARE YOU?

*Yells into the obvious void*

There are not many American conservatives either. I wonder if they recognize that engaging with more liberal folks demands they justify their beliefs, and they 1. find it stressful, and 2. that they haven't thought through their views as much as they thought.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Wasn't this mostly a political move by his whole family, iirc?

His father fell out with the Jewish leadership.
As Jews were ostracised from polite society at that time, it was almost certainly had a "Social" element or intent.

 

[Laika]

True. Not you though. I'm curious.

You and the leave voters have staved off joining the EU for another ten years, or perhaps longer. Your movement is doomed to fail, and another vote will come up eventually. Your country will rejoin the EU. It is a foregone conclusion that your irrational position will be overrun with wisdom and steady pressure.

You reacted. They were threatening to take away your EU membership if you didn't comply with ever increasing unity. They did it with soft language though, first giving you the benefits of EU trade then saying to keep it you had to conform to increasing rules and regulations from authorities external to your own government. Your government was slowly becoming a puppet government -- something to rubber stamp common sense coming from Belgium. Rejecting this you rejected common sense. You spit in the face of a global peace effort. How does it feel? Don't you feel guilty?

That’s a bit personal, don’t you think?

Edit: neither remain or leave ran great campaigns in the referendumn and it was terrible when Joe Cox got killed. The focus on the racially charged subject of immigration by the leave campaign wasn’t great either but was a sign of populist outrage to come. Nevertheless, the EU was a grand experiment in post-war economic and political integration and we have seen it play out over several decades. I don’t think anyone can be faulted for comparing the idealistic expectations of a pan-European family after the horrors of world war two and the third reich with the more mundane reality of what is essentially a free trade agreement which ever side of the debate you come on.

 

[Brickjectivity]

That’s a bit personal, don’t you think?

Its intended not to be personal but satirical. I think Rival knows so. Its how I perceive the way that the Remain party has pursued this topic. "You will remain. It is wise and incontestable. That is why we have the BBC droning on about it 24-7 that the only wise vote is a remain vote. Conform. Dissolve your British identity." etc. Do you see how they destroyed their own cause? Its like they thought that by squeezing harder a slippery seed would become more secure. Instead they made everyone feel smothered and ignored.

 

[Laika]

Its intended not to be personal but satirical. I think Rival knows so. Its how I perceive the way that the Remain party has pursued this topic. "You will remain. It is wise and incontestable. That is why we have the BBC droning on about it 24-7 that the only wise vote is a remain vote. Conform. Dissolve your British identity." etc. Do you see how they destroyed their own cause? Its like they thought that by squeezing harder a slippery seed would become more secure. Instead they made everyone feel smothered and ignored.

Ah. Ok. Yeah, Remain didn’t do a great job at presenting their case so I see what you are getting at.

 

[Rival]

Ah. Ok. Yeah, Remain didn’t do a great job at presenting their case so I see what you are getting at.

Vote Remain or you're a bigot!

I heard a lot of that.

 

[exchemist]

Vote Remain or you're a bigot!

I heard a lot of that.

That would be Farage's inimitable contribution to how Brexitters were perceived.

 

[England my lionheart]

I mentioned in another thread that RF feels swamped by Remainers. Most of the Brits on here are pro-EU. I don't mind that; have your own opinions - but why is this place specifically housing so many? Where are all the British Brexiteers on here? I'm not looking for a Brexit argument; I want to know where all the British conservatives are. And while were at it, where are all the British crazy religious fundies like me? I've put this in political debates because it seems more a political issue to me.

Sometimes it's incredibly lonely and frustrating being on here, trying to form a community, when it feels everyone is mocking you because of the way you voted.

CONSERVATIVE BRITS, WHERE ARE YOU?

*Yells into the obvious void*

I get it all the time and bombarded with the same Facepalms and head in the sand yawn,the same old arguments,if this or that the referendum wouldn’t count,I get why they are sore but it’s move on time,the bitterness from remainers isn’t going to change anything.

I’m not really a conservative but they got us out and that’s why I voted for them but we really are lacking in choice of who to vote for,it’s a very shallow talent pool,lib dems are a joke and labour controlled by the very loony left,we should all bury the hatchet and move on imo.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My experience in this country is that more folks actually support it now ever since the EU's vaccine fiasco et al.

Based on what, though? Conversations with people in your social circle?

I'm not seeing that in any of the polling I can find online.

 

[Rival]

Based on what, though? Conversations with people in your social circle?

I'm not seeing that in any of the polling I can find online.

@Laika!

Yes, my social circle, talking to folks online, etc. I find personal experience more useful than polls.

 

[Laika]

@Laika!

Yes, my social circle, talking to folks online, etc. I find personal experience more useful than polls.

As Rival knows, I voted Remain but I’m more likely to vote Leave now. I was never happy about voting remain and could have voted leave at the time as the left-wing had a tradition of opposing the EU as a capitalist free trade bloc. (Tony Benn’s opposition to the EU in the 1970’s being an example). But after Joe Cox died that settled it and I just felt I had to vote remain given how polarised we had got. (This was still in those “innocent times” a few months before Trump got elected.)

Watching the Brexit negotiations unfold it became pretty clear that if it was this difficult the leave the EU, no one should take seriously the idea of reforming it. Equally the change in the political atmosphere and threat of the far right made me look at issues to do with nationalism and sovereignty and take it a bit more seriously. So I’m not 100% certain to vote leave now, but much more likely to do so having seen it play out.

 

[Augustus]

Brexit caused real harm to real people; I think a lot of people have the right to be mad about it...

That is true.

But it's also true that membership of the EU caused real harm to real people. Those who pointed this out were told their problems were imaginary and they were stupid racists who had been fooled by right wing media and who just wanted to bring back the Empire.

Many of the same people who are 'mad about' it still refuse to recognise that EU membership was not so great for everyone or that people may have legitimate reasons for wanting to leave.

 

[exchemist]

I get it all the time and bombarded with the same Facepalms and head in the sand yawn,the same old arguments,if this or that the referendum wouldn’t count,I get why they are sore but it’s move on time,the bitterness from remainers isn’t going to change anything.

I’m not really a conservative but they got us out and that’s why I voted for them but we really are lacking in choice of who to vote for,it’s a very shallow talent pool,lib dems are a joke and labour controlled by the very loony left,we should all bury the hatchet and move on imo.

I'm afraid this hatchet will not be buried. It's too deep for that. I completely agree we should all now recognise we are where we are, and so we have to recognise the situation and get on with it, pragmatically. But do not imagine it will cease to be a profound dividing line in British politics.

It's not just trade and economics, though that alone may be enough to keep the issue alive for a decade at least. It also affects people's sense of their identity. Just look at the Northern Ireland Protocol. That one will keep coming round, like the ghoul on the ghost train..WOOHOO... every few months, because the Unionists feel it threatens their identity.

Messing with people's identity is a recipe for long-lasting friction and resentment.

 

[Orbit]

@Laika!

Yes, my social circle, talking to folks online, etc. I find personal experience more useful than polls.

Polls are a better representation of the general reality in your country; much better than your personal echo chamber of like-minded acquaintances.

 

[Rival]

Polls are a better representation of the general reality in your country; much better than your personal echo chamber of like-minded acquaintances.

There is no Leave echo chamber around me. The reason Remainers were so shocked at the result is because they are more likely to live in one, if you trust polls:

Why Remainers were shocked by the referendum result, but Leavers less so | The Spectator

Sometimes it can be hard to switch off from the day job, and this got me thinking about the distribution of the Remain and Leave votes in the referendum. In a way, Remain and Leave voters are political versions of stag groups A and B. When you mathematically model down to postcode level the Leave and Remain vote in England and Wales, it becomes clear that a large number of local communities (comprising half-a-million voters in total) exist where almost the entire postcode voted 90 per cent upwards for Remain. What is fascinating is that there is no similar big pool of uniformly Leave streets or communities. The 53.3 per cent Leave vote is spread much more thinly across England and Wales, and the 46.7 per cent Remain vote is much more heavily concentrated in London, Bristol, Cardiff, Oxford and Cambridge.

This is not just a mathematical quirk. This unequal distribution of Remain and Leave voters tells us why the referendum was such an upset and shock to some. It tells us why Remainers were shocked, but Leavers less so. This pattern of asymmetric distribution explains why you get Remain voters who say that they don’t have any Leave friends, but you get far fewer Leave voters who say the same thing of Remainers.

 

[Kooky]

I mentioned in another thread that RF feels swamped by Remainers. Most of the Brits on here are pro-EU. I don't mind that; have your own opinions - but why is this place specifically housing so many? Where are all the British Brexiteers on here? I'm not looking for a Brexit argument; I want to know where all the British conservatives are. And while were at it, where are all the British crazy religious fundies like me? I've put this in political debates because it seems more a political issue to me.

Sometimes it's incredibly lonely and frustrating being on here, trying to form a community, when it feels everyone is mocking you because of the way you voted.

CONSERVATIVE BRITS, WHERE ARE YOU?

*Yells into the obvious void*

How do you even recognize which of the conservatives here are Brits and which are Murricans?
Can you guys hear their accent in writing?

 

[Rival]

How do you even recognize which of the conservatives here are Brits and which are Murricans?
Can you guys hear their accent in writing?

I'm not sure if you're being serious, but I either look to see if a location is given or just ask

 

[Kooky]

There is no Leave echo chamber around me. The reason Remainers were so shocked at the result is because they are more likely to live in one, if you trust polls:

Why Remainers were shocked by the referendum result, but Leavers less so | The Spectator

Sometimes it can be hard to switch off from the day job, and this got me thinking about the distribution of the Remain and Leave votes in the referendum. In a way, Remain and Leave voters are political versions of stag groups A and B. When you mathematically model down to postcode level the Leave and Remain vote in England and Wales, it becomes clear that a large number of local communities (comprising half-a-million voters in total) exist where almost the entire postcode voted 90 per cent upwards for Remain. What is fascinating is that there is no similar big pool of uniformly Leave streets or communities. The 53.3 per cent Leave vote is spread much more thinly across England and Wales, and the 46.7 per cent Remain vote is much more heavily concentrated in London, Bristol, Cardiff, Oxford and Cambridge.

This is not just a mathematical quirk. This unequal distribution of Remain and Leave voters tells us why the referendum was such an upset and shock to some. It tells us why Remainers were shocked, but Leavers less so. This pattern of asymmetric distribution explains why you get Remain voters who say that they don’t have any Leave friends, but you get far fewer Leave voters who say the same thing of Remainers.

Is there an independent source for this, or do we have to take this pundit by his word?

 

[Kooky]

I'm not sure if you're being serious, but I either look to see if a location is given or just ask

I ask because the only distinguishing trait of British conservatives I managed to recognize here is an obsession with Brexit (which is why I'd taken you for an American initially).

Since their deepest desire became a reality, I've seen a lot of the hardcore Brexiteers disappear.

 

[Rival]

Is there an independent source for this, or do we have to take this pundit by his word?

He doesn't give sources but it does seem to have been acknowledged that many Remainers are from liberal middle classes. Not all; but what seemed oft talked about after the result was how out of touch many of the London and upper classes are. It basically supports the idea that the EU vote was as much about giving Westminster the finger as it was about the EU. Really, a lot of folks were just sick of Whitehall. Here's a BBC chart bonanza:

EU referendum: The result in maps and charts

You can see the heaviest Leave areas in some of the most deprived areas.

I ask because the only distinguishing trait of British conservatives I managed to recognize here is an obsession with Brexit (which is why I'd taken you for an American initially).

Since their deepest desire became a reality, I've seen a lot of the hardcore Brexiteers disappear.

I don't really debate Brexit on here to be honest. I only made this thread because I noticed there are so few of us.

US conservatives seem to care more about fiscal conservatism and be Christians. Brits are largely atheists and lack a lot of the vigour for fiscal conservatism.