Where are the Dead?

[nPeace]

1) The disembodied spirits are on a trajectory of return to God, and in exceptional situations, they can reoccupy their not yet decomposed bodies, experiencing resurrection.

2) This is very complex. There are diversities of spirits

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (1 Tim. 4:1 KJV)

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (1 Pet. 3:19 KJV)

3) It depends on what the spirits want; some seek vengeance.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Rev. 6:9-10 KJV)

Can you please explain what is a disembodied spirit?

Also, can you please explain this scripture to me.
(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.

Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

I've been thinking about what you stated in your post, and it reinforces my conviction that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and misleading. I've had over 40 years of experience as a psychic medium and have had direct contact with earthbound spirits for about 16 years, so I have no doubt that what the Bible teaches about the afterlife is clearly inaccurate and misleading. To be honest, there is not a single Christian alive who can convince me that their preferred interpretation or their church's preferred interpretation of the Bible about the afterlife is correct.

A lifetime of firsthand experience as a psychic medium, combined with many years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator, has undoubtedly proven otherwise to me. Of course, what I'm conveying to you is my own personal belief based on my years of experience as a medium and paranormal investigator, and I understand that you believe differently. I'd like to make it clear that I respect your personal beliefs, even though I disagree with them.

Years ago, as I was growing up and also as a young adult, I used to believe that I was seeing things (a.k.a. human spirits and nonhuman entities) because no one else I knew could see, hear, or feel what I could since I was six years old and saw my first human spirit (read about it here). So, I kept everything I experienced to myself until my mid-twenties, when I eventually told my husband, who was the first person I'd ever told about my mediumship. It took me a few more years after telling him before I finally accepted and embraced my mediumship abilities and used them to assist both the living and the dead.

As a psychic medium, I can see, hear, and speak directly with human spirits, as well as feel the presence of spirits. For almost 16 years now, I have given readings to many people who didn't believe in the paranormal, and none of them remained skeptical of the paranormal after I revealed specific private information that was only known between them and their deceased loved one(s) (such as the names of their living or deceased relatives, exact dates of key events in their lives, family vacations, certain places they visited or traveled to outside of the country, and specific childhood memories that they have).

That includes my first therapist (read about it here), as well as a couple of other therapists and a psychologist. In addition to what I've written in one of my previous posts here, I've also shared how I knew when a friend tragically died (read about it here), when my relatives died (read about it here), and when I've had extraordinary experiences that I couldn't confirm with other present witnesses or document with my ghost-hunting equipment, as I explained in a previous post here. In fact, I've spent over a year posting on this forum about my personal experiences as a psychic medium (such as this post here) and a seasoned paranormal investigator (such as this post here) and commenting in many other threads as well. In the posts I linked, I provided a great deal of specific detail regarding my experiences as a psychic medium and paranormal investigator. I don't just say that I can see spirits and then leave it at that.

You can say what happened to you and what you experienced.

 

[dwb001]

Luke 16 would show that the dead can talk to each other and are conscious.

If you want to argue with Jesus then that is on you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Luke 16 would show that the dead can talk to each other and are conscious.

If you want to argue with Jesus then that is on you.

It was an illustration. There is no argument in my mind. Because it was not reality but an illustrative teaching method Jesus employed. Jewish traditions and teachings were used in his illustration. Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia).

 

[dwb001]

It was an illustration. There is no argument in my mind. Because it was not reality but an illustrative teaching method Jesus employed. Jewish traditions and teachings were used in his illustration. Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia).

Jesus didn't say it was an illustration. Why do you not trust the word of Jesus.

Wikipedia does not replace the Bible.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Jesus mentioned the appearance of a ghost in Luke 24:37–39 because his disciples thought he was a ghost. 1 Samuel 28:7–20 mentions the ghost of Samuel communicating with King Saul and warning him that God would deliver both him and Israel into the hands of the Philistines because of his disobedience. There is no mention in these verses that the spirit he spoke to was anything else but the ghost of Samuel. Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that the dead know nothing, and even their names are forgotten. However, if the dead know nothing, then how would they know if they are either in heaven or hell? For example, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31), the rich man knew that he was in torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"). It is a parable of a dead rich man who was obviously conscious that he was being tormented in Hades, was able to recognize Lazarus and Abraham from afar, and also pleaded with Abraham to help him. It seemingly contradicts Ecclesiastes 9:5, which claims that the dead know nothing.

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, it conflicts with other scriptures that suggest there are final rewards given in heaven (such as these verses here) and that people's names have been written in a "Book of Life" that God is said to have on hand (see the verses here), as well as their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Upon extensive reading, study, and examination of the Bible, I've found that Ecclesiastes 3:21 specifies that human spirits and the spirit of the animal rise upward from the earth. Revelation 20:13 states that spirits rise up from the sea and Hades. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that people are destined to die once and, after that, face judgment, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 suggests that believers are in the presence of Jesus after death. However, according to 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15, both believers and unbelievers' spirits are sleeping in their graves and awaiting God's judgment in the end times. Furthermore, there are other verses that describe "soul sleep" (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15) as well.

 

[Trailblazer]

Luke 16 would show that the dead can talk to each other and are conscious.

If you want to argue with Jesus then that is on you.

Nobody would be arguing Jesus since Jesus did not write Luke.
If you want to believe that Luke is the words of Jesus then that is on you.

The traditional view is that the Gospel of Luke and Acts were written by the physician Luke, a companion of Paul. Many scholars believe him to be a Gentile Christian, though some scholars think Luke was a Hellenic Jew. This Luke is mentioned in Paul's Epistle to Philemon (v.

Authorship of Luke–Acts - Wikipedia​

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Authorship_of_Luke–A...

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus didn't say it was an illustration. Why do you not trust the word of Jesus.

As I just pointed out those were not the words of Jesus, they were the words of Luke.

 

[dwb001]

Nobody would be arguing Jesus since Jesus did not write Luke.
If you want to believe that Luke is the words of Jesus then that is on you.

The traditional view is that the Gospel of Luke and Acts were written by the physician Luke, a companion of Paul. Many scholars believe him to be a Gentile Christian, though some scholars think Luke was a Hellenic Jew. This Luke is mentioned in Paul's Epistle to Philemon (v.

Authorship of Luke–Acts - Wikipedia​

View attachment 85046
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Authorship_of_Luke–A...

And where do you think Luke got these words?

I know own who.Luke is... an accurate recorder of events and sayings. A diligent researcher.

Are you saying that Luke made up stories?

 

[dwb001]

As I just pointed out those were not the words of Jesus, they were the words of Luke.

Luke reporting the words of Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

And where do you think Luke got these words?

I have no idea.

I know own who.Luke is... an accurate recorder of events and sayings. A diligent researcher.

Are you saying that Luke made up stories?

I don't know if Luke made up stories, but there is no reason to believe what he wrote is (a) the words of Jesus or (b) literally true. The words could be stories told to teach spiritual lessons, just like much of the Bible.

 

[dwb001]

I have no idea.

I don't know if Luke made up stories, but there is no reason to believe what he wrote is (a) the words of Jesus or (b) literally true. The words could be stories told to teach spiritual lessons, just like much of the Bible.

You are free to believe that... but the text would indicate that is not the case.

Read the book closer and you might see the difference.

 

[Trailblazer]

Luke reporting the words of Jesus.

How would it be possible for Luke to write down exactly what Jesus said that many years after Jesus walked the earth? Even if he heard Jesus say certain things, nobody has that kind of memory. I strive to be logical.

The Gospel According to Luke, written in roughly 85 C.E. (± five to ten years), most likely during the reign of the Roman Emperor Domitian, is known in its earliest form from extensive papyri fragments dating to the early or middle of the third century.

Historical Context for Luke/John by Unknown | The Core ...​

 

[dwb001]

How would it be possible for Luke to write down exactly what Jesus said that many years after Jesus walked the earth? Even if he heard Jesus say certain things, nobody has that kind of memory. I strive to be logical.

The Gospel According to Luke, written in roughly 85 C.E. (± five to ten years), most likely during the reign of the Roman Emperor Domitian, is known in its earliest form from extensive papyri fragments dating to the early or middle of the third century.

Historical Context for Luke/John by Unknown | The Core ...​

So why trust anything?
Do you think Alexander the Great existed?
His histories are written over 200 years later.

So according to your rational... no history book could ever be trustworthy.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are free to believe that... but the text would indicate that is not the case.

Read the book closer and you might see the difference.

The text does not indicate that (a) it is the words of Jesus or (b) that what is written is literally true.

 

[dwb001]

The text does not indicate that (a) it is the words of Jesus or (b) that what is written is literally true.

Yes it does. Read better.

 

[Trailblazer]

So why trust anything?
Do you think Alexander the Great existed?
His histories are written over 200 years later.

So according to your rational... no history book could ever be trustworthy.

I am not saying that I do not trust the gospel message. I am only saying that it is not the exact words of Jesus, but that does not really matter because what was important was conveyed.

I believe the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic sayings of Jesus. I believe that the Bible is under the care and protection of God, and that the essence, or essential elements, of what Jesus intended to convey has been recorded and preserved. However, as the sayings of Jesus were written down some time later, so we cannot categorically state that the words and phrases attributed to Jesus are His exact words.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I don't know if Luke made up stories, but there is no reason to believe what he wrote is (a) the words of Jesus or (b) literally true. The words could be stories told to teach spiritual lessons, just like much of the Bible.

Based on my personal research and examination of the Bible, I believe that the stories about Jesus were either embellished or copied and adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate the Bible and Christianity. I decided to include my prior post in another thread on a similar topic about Jesus. You may read it here. I also believe that the Bible contains many contradictions (see my post here), but this may be off-topic of the thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes it does. Read better.

Can you explain how the text indicates that (a) it is the words of Jesus or (b) that what is written is literally true (rather than allegorically true).

 

[dwb001]

I am not saying that I do not trust the gospel message. I am only saying that it is not the exact words of Jesus, but that does not really matter because what was important was conveyed.

I believe the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic sayings of Jesus. I believe that the Bible is under the care and protection of God, and that the essence, or essential elements, of what Jesus intended to convey has been recorded and preserved. However, as the sayings of Jesus were written down some time later, so we cannot categorically state that the words and phrases attributed to Jesus are His exact words.

And I said you are free to believe that.