Where are the people?

[loverofhumanity]

This is a question addressed to those living in relative comfort, suffering no loss of dignity or humanity who have their rights granted by law. Who enjoy freedom and lives free from oppression and wars. Where are the people when their brothers and sisters in distant lands suffer horrendous cruelty and barbaric treatment at the hands of torture mongers who consider harm and hurt like a sport and game. Where are the people when we hear cries of help from brothers and sisters? Oh yes we pride ourselves that 100’s of millions across the world marched and protested for same sex marriage. A great achievement we considered that while in many countries fellow brothers sisters and children are murdered and tortured. But they are not us. That’s their problem isn’t it? We are Americans or Chinese or some other country so others than us are not our fellow humans so they don’t really matter, its for the politicians to fix - what can we helpless people do? But when people wanted same sex marriage they demanded it and got it! Where then have all the people gone when it comes to rising up for their afflicted fellow human beings? In the future when humanity has regained its humanity this time will be looked back upon as the most shameful period in human history, when we heard the cries of our fellow human beings around the world suffering under the yoke of oppression and turned our backs on them.

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Where are the people?

In relation to the cosmos?

On the earth, in the earth, in the troposphere, or on the ISS. In November 2024 we can add Artemis 2 to the list.

 

[exchemist]

This is a question addressed to those living in relative comfort, suffering no loss of dignity or humanity who have their rights granted by law. Who enjoy freedom and lives free from oppression and wars. Where are the people when their brothers and sisters in distant lands suffer horrendous cruelty and barbaric treatment at the hands of torture mongers who consider harm and hurt like a sport and game. Where are the people when we hear cries of help from brothers and sisters? Oh yes we pride ourselves that 100’s of millions across the world marched and protested for same sex marriage. A great achievement we considered that while in many countries fellow brothers sisters and children are murdered and tortured. But they are not us. That’s their problem isn’t it? We are Americans or Chinese or some other country so others than us are not our fellow humans so they don’t really matter, its for the politicians to fix - what can we helpless people do? But when people wanted same sex marriage they demanded it and got it! Where then have all the people gone when it comes to rising up for their afflicted fellow human beings? In the future when humanity has regained its humanity this time will be looked back upon as the most shameful period in human history, when we heard the cries of our fellow human beings around the world suffering under the yoke of oppression and turned our backs on them.

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

The usual empty, hand-wringing exhortation to "unite", in some vague and unspecified way, that I am now beginning to recognise as a Baha'i trope. "Unite"? Unite how, in what guise, and with what concrete objective? What are we being invited to DO?

Many of us subscribe to charities that work in less fortunate parts of the world. But we can't change governments, or stamp out the corruption that is responsible for so much misery. The old saying that charity begins at home has some truth in it, for purely practical reasons.

Furthermore, it is unrealistic to expect that human progress (if there is such a thing) can be expected to proceed evenly across the world. Advances have to start somewhere. With luck and skill they can spread, sometimes with setbacks and failures along the way. That, it seems to me, is just how things will always be, unless we all live in a global fascist dictatorship. People will always disagree about things and should be allowed to do so. It's human nature.

I realise my reply may sound intemperate, but I just find this kind of thing unhelpful and exasperating.

 

[Heyo]

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Do you have any concrete plans to do something?
Would you like to invade countries like Afghanistan or Iraq to bring "democracy" to the suppressed people? Have you asked the people of Afghanistan or Iraq if they want democracy?
Or take another third world country most of us are more familiar with: the USA. They have a plutocracy, currently represented by a senile gerontocracy and it was worse before and could become worse again with a fascistoid "billionair".
Some states there still have capital punishment, voter suppression is systemic and rampant, nearly half of the people live in poverty or near the poverty line without adequate healthcare or insurance. They have the highest incarceration rate in the world. We get nearly daily news of cops misusing their power without repercussion.
There was one example in history when invading and bringing democracy worked: Germany after WWII. Should Germany now invade the USA and bring democracy to them? Do you think we owe that to the people of the US?

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is a question addressed to those living in relative comfort, suffering no loss of dignity or humanity who have their rights granted by law. Who enjoy freedom and lives free from oppression and wars. Where are the people when their brothers and sisters in distant lands suffer horrendous cruelty and barbaric treatment at the hands of torture mongers who consider harm and hurt like a sport and game. Where are the people when we hear cries of help from brothers and sisters? Oh yes we pride ourselves that 100’s of millions across the world marched and protested for same sex marriage. A great achievement we considered that while in many countries fellow brothers sisters and children are murdered and tortured. But they are not us. That’s their problem isn’t it? We are Americans or Chinese or some other country so others than us are not our fellow humans so they don’t really matter, its for the politicians to fix - what can we helpless people do? But when people wanted same sex marriage they demanded it and got it! Where then have all the people gone when it comes to rising up for their afflicted fellow human beings? In the future when humanity has regained its humanity this time will be looked back upon as the most shameful period in human history, when we heard the cries of our fellow human beings around the world suffering under the yoke of oppression and turned our backs on them.

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

Should people feel guilty now?

It's a government problem really.

Many well wishing people would like to help but more often than not, regulations and laws prevent that from ever happening, and it shouldn't be about helping others as a primary focus anyways.

It should be teaching those to help themselves.

Remember the adage?

"Give a man a fish he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is a question addressed to those living in relative comfort, suffering no loss of dignity or humanity who have their rights granted by law. Who enjoy freedom and lives free from oppression and wars. Where are the people when their brothers and sisters in distant lands suffer horrendous cruelty and barbaric treatment at the hands of torture mongers who consider harm and hurt like a sport and game. Where are the people when we hear cries of help from brothers and sisters? Oh yes we pride ourselves that 100’s of millions across the world marched and protested for same sex marriage. A great achievement we considered that while in many countries fellow brothers sisters and children are murdered and tortured. But they are not us. That’s their problem isn’t it? We are Americans or Chinese or some other country so others than us are not our fellow humans so they don’t really matter, its for the politicians to fix - what can we helpless people do? But when people wanted same sex marriage they demanded it and got it! Where then have all the people gone when it comes to rising up for their afflicted fellow human beings? In the future when humanity has regained its humanity this time will be looked back upon as the most shameful period in human history, when we heard the cries of our fellow human beings around the world suffering under the yoke of oppression and turned our backs on them.

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

I agree, as It is indeed a frustrating world we live in. Our part is to change our own selves and participate in our communities as an example of peace and unity. I thank all those that have taken that path in life, ultimately it will bring about the required change, but that will not help those that face injustices, famine, poverty and war now.

God only knows how all the injustices that rage around this world will change to peace and brotherhood.

I see that it may be a lot worse before the error of our ways becomes as obvious as the noonday sun.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

This is a question addressed to those living in relative comfort, suffering no loss of dignity or humanity who have their rights granted by law. Who enjoy freedom and lives free from oppression and wars. Where are the people when their brothers and sisters in distant lands suffer horrendous cruelty and barbaric treatment at the hands of torture mongers who consider harm and hurt like a sport and game. Where are the people when we hear cries of help from brothers and sisters? Oh yes we pride ourselves that 100’s of millions across the world marched and protested for same sex marriage. A great achievement we considered that while in many countries fellow brothers sisters and children are murdered and tortured. But they are not us. That’s their problem isn’t it? We are Americans or Chinese or some other country so others than us are not our fellow humans so they don’t really matter, its for the politicians to fix - what can we helpless people do? But when people wanted same sex marriage they demanded it and got it! Where then have all the people gone when it comes to rising up for their afflicted fellow human beings? In the future when humanity has regained its humanity this time will be looked back upon as the most shameful period in human history, when we heard the cries of our fellow human beings around the world suffering under the yoke of oppression and turned our backs on them.

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

Your reference to gay marriage comes across as a homophobic dog whistle to me, one can only protest to any effect in a democracy, so how do you propose we stop dictatorships from waging war by holding protests? Be concrete and specific in your examples please. And while you are at it explain why Baha'i are not taking concrete specific actions to help against dictators who wage war unlike the democratic politicians who you appear to me to seek to belittle the value of.

 

[PureX]

There is no "the people".

There is only "me and mine".

 

[Rival]

I've never understood why some think it's the duty of a country to fix the problems of other countries. That's why they have their own governments, their own charities, militaries, schools, and so on. We have enough problems fixing our own education systems, infrastructure, corruption, crime, economy, medical services and so on to start pouring time and money into everyone else's. Wealthy countries don't exist to serve poorer ones that can't get their acts together. We pour money and help into them and they're still tyrannical dictatorships. The only group who can help is their own people. Revolutions start from within. Outside interference rarely works and who are we to decide what needs 'fixing' anyway? So a culture doesn't let gay folks marry, big deal, that's their society, let them fix what they want and keep the 'barbarism' if they want it.

 

[exchemist]

I've never understood why some think it's the duty of country to fix the problems of other countries. That's why they have their own governments, their own charities, militaries, schools, and so on. We have enough problems fixing our own education systems, infrastructure, corruption, crime, economy, medical services and so on to start pouring time and money into everyone else's. Wealthy countries don't exist to serve poorer ones that can't get their acts together. We pour money and help into them and they're still tyrannical dictatorships. The only group who can help is their own people. Revolutions start from within. Outside interference rarely works and who are we to decide what needs 'fixing' anyway? So a culture doesn't let gay men marry, big deal, that's their society, let them fix what they want and keep the 'barbarism' if they want it.

Actually I think there are some things we can and should do to help our brethren in less fortunate countries. One is to sponsor education, especially of girls. This is something that can be done without a great risk of funds being diverted into the pockets of corrupt officials. (Here's one charity I have supported: Homepage | Mary's Meals UK. which has the ingenious idea of offering a free, nutritious meal to children as an incentive to come to school.) Another is simple, low-cost health programmes - vaccinations, cataract removal, trachoma etc.

A third is at corporate level, by making sure that international companies refuse to have anything to do with corrupt practice. My wife found herself at the sharp end of that, in Mexico and in India, when trying to do large deals with the local government for Shell. She encountered several "Mr. 10%" figures among the authorities and evoked surprise and shock when she threatened to withdraw from the investment unless the demands were dropped. That kind of thing, if enough companies do it, really does start to change things in governments, which is where the corruption starts. (The other culture-changing influence of corporations can be safety standards, which are lamentably poor in many parts of the world.)

 

[Debater Slayer]

Many of us subscribe to charities that work in less fortunate parts of the world. But we can't change governments, or stamp out the corruption that is responsible for so much misery. The old saying that charity begins at home has some truth in it, for purely practical reasons.

Actually I think there are some things we can and should do to help our brethren in less fortunate countries. One is to sponsor education, especially of girls. This is something that can be done without a great risk of funds being diverted into the pockets of corrupt officials. (Here's one charity I have supported: Homepage | Mary's Meals UK. which has the ingenious idea of offering a free, nutritious meal to children as an incentive to come to school.) Another is simple, low-cost health programmes - vaccinations, cataract removal, trachoma etc.

A third is at corporate level, by making sure that international companies refuse to have anything to do with corrupt practice. My wife found herself at the sharp end of that, in Mexico and in India, when trying to do large deals with the local government for Shell. She encountered several "Mr. 10%" figures among the authorities and evoked surprise and shock when she threatened to withdraw from the investment unless the demands were dropped. That kind of thing, if enough companies do it, really does start to change things in governments, which is where the corruption starts. (The other culture-changing influence of corporations can be safety standards, which are lamentably poor in many parts of the world.)

I just wanted to sincerely thank you both for spreading awareness about this and for what I gather is your own contribution. It means a lot to see support for such efforts in poorer countries from people in developed countries, especially when it is very easy to overlook or forget about problems outside one's geographical vicinity.

As for the OP, I'm not sure why same-sex marriage is being used as an example in what appears to be a negative connotation about people who demanded its legalization. I strongly dislike arguments that seem to use a valid issue (e.g., poverty in many countries) as a scapegoat and springboard for preaching a heavily slanted religious message or for demonizing any given group or their rights (e.g., same-sex marriage).

 

[Stevicus]

Take a bow humanity for turning our backs on the well being and peace of our brothers and sisters who keep calling for our help but there is no answer despite their plead to the international community. Where are the people? Where are the people who care? Better still where are the people who care and act?

Alone yes we are powerless but united we are a mighty force that can change the world if we wish and believe in ourselves.

Many people do care - and sometimes act. The fact that people are enjoined to support our government's interventionism around the world appeals to the people's desire to help and do something for the people of the world. That they're likely being misled, manipulated, and tricked, that is how people unwittingly support the same regimes causing all this human misery. Even the mighty and ever-so-wise U.S. government has gotten tricked more than once.

It's not a question of unity, as the U.S. and other Western powers in the same alliance are, more or less, "unified" and on the same page. We have repeatedly demonstrated our military capabilities and our ability to enforce our will on various parts of the world. Ironically, that's also where many of the world's tyrants get their power, so it's kind of a double-edged sword. We've established tyrannies in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America all in the name of protecting the "Free World."

So, yes, "we" have the power to change the world, but when looking at the current state of the world, this is as good as it gets. This is the best our "revered leaders" can come up with.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've never understood why some think it's the duty of country to fix the problems of other countries.

Perhaps in part because "the problems of other countries" are too often "our" legacy.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I've never understood why some think it's the duty of country to fix the problems of other countries. That's why they have their own governments, their own charities, militaries, schools, and so on. We have enough problems fixing our own education systems, infrastructure, corruption, crime, economy, medical services and so on to start pouring time and money into everyone else's. Wealthy countries don't exist to serve poorer ones that can't get their acts together. We pour money and help into them and they're still tyrannical dictatorships. The only group who can help is their own people. Revolutions start from within. Outside interference rarely works and who are we to decide what needs 'fixing' anyway? So a culture doesn't let gay folks marry, big deal, that's their society, let them fix what they want and keep the 'barbarism' if they want it.

We’ve been educated to see ‘strangeness and otherness’, an ‘us and them’ that has no foundation in reality or truth. Borders and imaginary boundaries and borders have all been devised by man for his own ambitions but in reality these are all imaginary and also racist which estrange brothers from sisters and divide the human family. The truth is there is only human beings and one planet earth and all belong to one human family. What kind of monsters have we become?

The Essence of Selfishness

Is it possible for one member of a family to be subjected to the utmost misery and to abject poverty and for the rest of the family to be comfortable? It is impossible unless those members of the family be senseless, atrophied, inhospitable, unkind.

Then they would say, "Though these members do belong to our family -- let them alone. Let us look after ourselves. Let them die. So long as I am comfortable, I am honored, I am happy -- this my brother -- let him die. If he be in misery let him remain in misery, so long as I am comfortable. If he is hungry let him remain so; I am satisfied. If he is without clothes, so long as I am clothed, let him remain as he is. If he is shelterless, homeless, so long as I have a home, let him remain in the wilderness. Such utter indifference in the human family is due to lack of control, to lack of a working law, to lack of kindness in its midst. If kindness had been shown to the members of this family surely all the members thereof would have enjoyed comfort and happiness.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity,

 

[Rival]

We’ve been educated to see ‘strangeness and otherness’, an ‘us and them’

Actually this is evolutionary psychology. It's almost impossible to break out of, which is why we attach strongly to religious tribes, political tribes, other such ideologies, when we think we've transcended group identity.

Borders and imaginary boundaries and borders have all been devised by man for his own ambitions but in reality these are all imaginary and also racist which estrange brothers from sisters and divide the human family.

Borders are naturally occurring dividers such as mountains, rivers, plains, seas, swamps and so on. If you look at various counties, countries, dialects, languages and so on, they tend to split around natural barriers. These are unavoidable geopolitical realities. The English Channel is a natural border separating England and France. This is how various identities tend to evolve.

The truth is there is only human beings and one planet earth and all belong to one human family. What kind of monsters have we become?

Funny how humanity has never seen it that way.

Is it possible for one member of a family to be subjected to the utmost misery and to abject poverty and for the rest of the family to be comfortable? It is impossible unless those members of the family be senseless, atrophied, inhospitable, unkind.

We're not a family of human beings and we have never seen it that way. In many languages, such as Ancient Egyptian, Native American languages and other such, the word for their group is 'humans' and sees everyone else as other. We have been doing this since time immemorial. If we don't do it with nation we do it with something else, religions, politics, philosophies, whatever. It will never go away as it allows us to stereotype who's safe and who's not.

 

[Jimmy]

I've never understood why some think it's the duty of country to fix the problems of other countries. That's why they have their own governments, their own charities, militaries, schools, and so on. We have enough problems fixing our own education systems, infrastructure, corruption, crime, economy, medical services and so on to start pouring time and money into everyone else's. Wealthy countries don't exist to serve poorer ones that can't get their acts together. We pour money and help into them and they're still tyrannical dictatorships. The only group who can help is their own people. Revolutions start from within. Outside interference rarely works and who are we to decide what needs 'fixing' anyway? So a culture doesn't let gay folks marry, big deal, that's their society, let them fix what they want and keep the 'barbarism' if they want it.

I agree. I use to think the other way but after seeing countries like Afghanistan do nothing themselves about the taliban one starts to wonder.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Many people do care - and sometimes act. The fact that people are enjoined to support our government's interventionism around the world appeals to the people's desire to help and do something for the people of the world. That they're likely being misled, manipulated, and tricked, that is how people unwittingly support the same regimes causing all this human misery. Even the mighty and ever-so-wise U.S. government has gotten tricked more than once.

It's not a question of unity, as the U.S. and other Western powers in the same alliance are, more or less, "unified" and on the same page. We have repeatedly demonstrated our military capabilities and our ability to enforce our will on various parts of the world. Ironically, that's also where many of the world's tyrants get their power, so it's kind of a double-edged sword. We've established tyrannies in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America all in the name of protecting the "Free World."

So, yes, "we" have the power to change the world, but when looking at the current state of the world, this is as good as it gets. This is the best our "revered leaders" can come up with.

I believe our destiny is in our hands and that we humans have an untapped potential for good that can bring about a peaceful, kind and just world and we eventually will when we start believing in ourselves and the ‘conscience of the world has been stirred enough to act’. When that happens we will find that we can overcome once considered insurmountable obstacles because we believe in the power of our goodness. Our inertia is all that holds us back.

Eventually as we commingle more, borders and barriers will come down and the early signs of world citizenship will blossom leading to a world civilisation. War, poverty and oppression will no longer be tolerated as all will be considered as members of one human family with dignity and rights.

Some food for thought about where I believe we are all headed. A glorious future but after our conscience has been rocked by unimaginable horrors.


Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Bahá’u’lláh's statement is: "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens". The concept of world citizenship is a direct result of the contraction of the world into a single neighbourhood through scientific advances and of the indisputable interdependence of nations. Love of all the world's peoples does not exclude love of one's country. The advantage of the part in a world society is best served by promoting the advantage of the whole. Current international activities in various fields which nurture mutual affection and a sense of solidarity among peoples need greatly to be increased.
Universal House of Justice

 

[F1fan]

I agree, as It is indeed a frustrating world we live in. Our part is to change our own selves and participate in our communities as an example of peace and unity. I thank all those that have taken that path in life, ultimately it will bring about the required change, but that will not help those that face injustices, famine, poverty and war now.

This is part of the ongoing problem, the Baha'i expect changes to occur but don't offer any solutions to make it happen. It ain't just going to happen.

God only knows how all the injustices that rage around this world will change to peace and brotherhood.

No God is known to exist, and being lazy isn't a way to achieve goals.

I see that it may be a lot worse before the error of our ways becomes as obvious as the noonday sun.

It's been a lot worse. The plague wiped out about a third of Europe's population. Science and medicine has helped people all over the world, and wealthy nations give a lot to the impoverished. It is getting better because there are serious people doing real work to help. Now with climate change there are more people affected by severe weather and that will absorb money.

But what do the Baha'i offer? Your religious texts? Your criticisms and complaints, expecting others to do something? I don't see the Baha'i as being sincere. Their religious beliefs offer nothing that others don't except the "unity" issue, which democratic nations work towards already. These secular nations actually have goals and work to solve problems. The Baha'i? Just complainers who are trying to get attention for themselves? I don't even see you all give credit to those who are working for peace and cooperation.

Of course the opening post mentioned gay marriage as an issue, and while not condemning it made it seem like a superficial goal for gay couples seeking equality under the law. So I'm not sure how "unity" relates to human rights issues that are limited under certain religions. To my mind religions need to reel in their beliefs where it comes to personal freedom and learn to be more tolerant. If you want unity you need to be open to diversity, and that includes Baha'i.

 

[F1fan]

I believe our destiny is in our hands and that we humans have an untapped potential for good that can bring about a peaceful, kind and just world and we eventually will when we start believing in ourselves and the ‘conscience of the world has been stirred enough to act’. When that happens we will find that we can overcome once considered insurmountable obstacles because we believe in the power of our goodness. Our inertia is all that holds us back.

What about mental health problems? Your simplistic view doesn't say anything about those with emotional instability.

Eventually as we commingle more, borders and barriers will come down and the early signs of world citizenship will blossom leading to a world civilisation. War, poverty and oppression will no longer be tolerated as all will be considered as members of one human family with dignity and rights.

How about gay marriage? Can you support that?

Some food for thought about where I believe we are all headed. A glorious future but after our conscience has been rocked by unimaginable horrors.

And you offer no suggestions about how to minimize the horrors.

Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Bahá’u’lláh's statement is: "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens". The concept of world citizenship is a direct result of the contraction of the world into a single neighbourhood through scientific advances and of the indisputable interdependence of nations. Love of all the world's peoples does not exclude love of one's country. The advantage of the part in a world society is best served by promoting the advantage of the whole. Current international activities in various fields which nurture mutual affection and a sense of solidarity among peoples need greatly to be increased.
Universal House of Justice

Except you Baha'i are a tribe that separates yourselves, yet you talk about eliminating borders. Can you abandon your label and beliefs for a unified attitude? If not, then how can you expect nations and religions to do it?

 

[F1fan]

We’ve been educated to see ‘strangeness and otherness’, an ‘us and them’ that has no foundation in reality or truth.

Like singling out gays as an outcast group? The truth of bias is a reality that bigots create.