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Where are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth?

First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
leibowde84 said:
Because we don't have any way of verifying who her dependents actually are. And, there is much reason to lie about this, as in some countries, claiming this might make one a celebrity. Thus, a high level of scrutiny is necessary.
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You make good sense here. The Israelis do keep excellent records but you're right, it couldn't be verified to be 100% correct.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
idav said:
Bodies decompose fairly quickly unless mummified. So the remains of Jesus are likely decomposed. Even if he did resurrect, the human body can't survive the "heavens" either, so flying into space isn't much of a work around.
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God spoke the universe into existence. Resurrecting a decomposed body after 3 days would be easy for Him. Surviving afterwards would be easy, also.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Well, anyways, He ascended, returned, then ascended basically again. I don't have a non-religious answer, pretty sure there isn't one. The non-religious answers look too sketchy, imo.
 
Gary Sheldrake

Gary Sheldrake

Member
First Baseman said:
Once again I think you have been deceived. There are no errors or mismatches, just different people telling the story the way they saw it. The Holy Spirit helps them remember it precisely but it is still told through their eyes and people see things differently.

Police know that when people tell a story exactly the same way it means they collaborated. However, when people tell the same story with slight deviations police know they are most likely telling the truth. I was a police officer years ago so I know this to be fact.

Had they all told the story exactly the same way the same critics you are listening to now would just say that they had copied one another.

And again I have to think that you were just looking for a reason not to believe it before you started. Satan will give you at least one reason every time you doubt God's word. You should know that already, though.

Best wishes to you,
The humble first baseman (retired ;))
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leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
First Baseman said:
Once again I think you have been deceived. There are no errors or mismatches, just different people telling the story the way they saw it. The Holy Spirit helps them remember it precisely but it is still told through their eyes and people see things differently.

Police know that when people tell a story exactly the same way it means they collaborated. However, when people tell the same story with slight deviations police know they are most likely telling the truth. I was a police officer years ago so I know this to be fact.

Had they all told the story exactly the same way the same critics you are listening to now would just say that they had copied one another.

And again I have to think that you were just looking for a reason not to believe it before you started. Satan will give you at least one reason every time you doubt God's word. You should know that already, though.

Best wishes to you,
The humble first baseman (retired ;))
Click to expand...
But, these aren't eye witnesses. It's hearsay via oral traditions. Or, at least that is what the evidence points to.
 
Gary Sheldrake

Gary Sheldrake

Member
First Baseman said:
Once again I think you have been deceived. There are no errors or mismatches, just different people telling the story the way they saw it. The Holy Spirit helps them remember it precisely but it is still told through their eyes and people see things differently.

Police know that when people tell a story exactly the same way it means they collaborated. However, when people tell the same story with slight deviations police know they are most likely telling the truth. I was a police officer years ago so I know this to be fact.

Had they all told the story exactly the same way the same critics you are listening to now would just say that they had copied one another.

And again I have to think that you were just looking for a reason not to believe it before you started. Satan will give you at least one reason every time you doubt God's word. You should know that already, though.

Best wishes to you,
The humble first baseman (retired ;))
Click to expand...


Good Evening First Baseman: There are in fact mismatches from one gospel to another. One clearly says the Holy Family fled into Egypt immediately after the birth of Jesus. Another gospel says the Holy Family hung around Bethlehem for forty days and then returning directly to Nazareth. One gospel says Judas felt anguish for his betrayal, threw the money away at the Temple and hanged himself. Then the author of John reported that Judas greedily ran off with the money and split open at the middle with his guts spilling out. These are but two of many clear mismatches.

Moving on to historical inaccuracies, I have already pointed out the mistakes the author of Mathew made with regards to the trial of Jesus. This is not a mismatch but an outright falsehood. The Sanhedrin was not permitted to meet at night or during the Passover. I will also point out the story of Jesus being born in in Bethlehem. This was a literary device designed to make his place of birth match the prophesized birthplace of the Messiah. Unfortunately, the Romans were meticulous record keepers. There was no census in or around the time Jesus was born, and never a census that included residents of Nazareth. It was a very poor and out of the way town. Secondly, the Romans didn't call you off to far away places for a census so they could simply take your word for what you owned. They came to your house to see what you owned. This is all carefully documented by the Romans. There also was no slaughter of male children at or near the time of the birth of Jesus. This episode and the flight into Egypt that followed was a literary device designed to make the story of the birth of Jesus akin to the story of the birth of Moses.

As for the idea of witness accounts, the gospels are not eye witness accounts. None of the authors are thought by bible scholars to have ever met Jesus. They were later Hellenistic writers who spoke and wrote in Greek. Jesus and his followers were not from the scholar class and would not have known Greek, nor are they likely to have been literate. They wouldn't have even known Hebrew, because knowledge of Hebrew was reserved for the wealthy class. Most scholars agree that Jesus and the Apostles probably spoke Aramaic and could neither read nor write, which was no shame at the time. It's just how things were in that time, in that place and among that class of people.

My question to you is simple. Why would the Holy Spirit make such errors when guiding the hands of the gospel writers, so that the stories could be picked apart later by literate people with access to historical knowledge and records? You are telling me that I've been mislead by the evil genius who first interfered in human affairs through a talking snake. I think you have been mislead by the cultural and religious lore of Catholicism. The only way we can get to the bottom of this is to discuss it with facts, so it's nice to be having a polite discussion on these matters. I am open to any responses based on historical facts. I am totally open to being wrong, but you have to show me In clear terms why I am wrong.

All the best,
Gary
 
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leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Gary Sheldrake said:
Good Evening First Baseman: There are in fact mismatches from one gospel to another. One clearly says the Holy Family fled into Egypt immediately after the birth of Jesus. Another gospel says the Holy Family hung around Bethlehem for forty days and then returning directly to Nazareth. One gospel says Judas felt anguish for his betrayal, threw the money away at the Temple and hanged himself. Then the author of John reported that Judas greedily ran off with the money and split open at the middle with his guts spilling out. These are but two of many clear mismatches.

Moving on to historical inaccuracies, I have already pointed out the mistakes the author of Mathew made with regards to the trial of Jesus. This is not a mismatch but an outright falsehood. The Sanhedrin was not permitted to meet at night or during the Passover. I will also point out the story of Jesus being born in in Bethlehem. This was a literary device designed to make his place of birth match the prophesized birthplace of the Messiah. Unfortunately, the Romans were meticulous record keepers. There was no census in or around the time Jesus was born, and never a census that included residents of Nazareth. It was a very poor and out of the way town. Secondly, the Romans didn't call you off to far away places for a census so they could simply take your word for what you owned. They came to your house to see what you owned. This is all carefully documented by the Romans. There also was no slaughter of male children at or near the time of the birth of Jesus. This episode and the flight into Egypt that followed was a literary device deigned to make the story of the birth of Jesus akin to the story of the birth of Moses.

As for the idea of witness accounts, the gospels are not eye witness accounts. None of the authors are thought by bible scholars to have ever met Jesus. They were later Hellenistic writers who spoke and wrote in Greek. Jesus and his followers were not from the scholar class and would not have known Greek, nor are they likely to have been literate. They wouldn't have even known Hebrew, because knowledge of Hebrew was reserved for the wealthy class. Most scholars agree that Jesus and the Apostles probably spoke Aramaic and could neither read nor write, which was no shame at the time. It's just how things were in that time, in that place and among that class of people.

My question to you is simple. Why would the Holy Spirit make such errors when guiding the hands of the gospel writers, so that the stories could be picked apart later by literate people with access to historical knowledge and records? You are telling me that I've been mislead by the evil genius who first interfered in human affairs through a talking snake. I think you have been mislead by the cultural and religious lore of Catholicism. The only way we can get to the bottom of this is to discuss it with facts, so it's nice to be having a polite discussion on these matters. I am open to any responses based on historical facts. I am totally open to being wrong, but you have to show me In clear terms why I am wrong.

All the best,
Gary
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Well done.
 
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