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Where do you get your morality?

Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Warren Clark said:
Stated everything clearly...
Click to expand...
And failed to see that you were proving my case instead of your own.

You just are lacking the response technique.
One liners such as "I can read the defintion" doesn't prove your case.
Come on... I want a contest. I am not debating just to hear myself speak.
Whats your argument to say that its not objective?
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The very definition you posted.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Maybe this will help.

Wiki: Objectivity (philosophy)
Objectivity is both a central and elusive philosophical category. While there is no universally accepted articulation of objectivity, a proposition is generally considered to be objectively true when its truth conditions are met and are "mind-independent"—that is, not met by the judgment of a conscious entity or subject.
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
And failed to see that you were proving my case instead of your own.


The very definition you posted.
Click to expand...


Then copy/paste the definition and write out your explanation that proves your case. I wanna hear it from you.
My mind isn't going in the same direction as yours.
The objective in the debate is to make it clear to the other person why your argument is more or less valid.
One liners do not help. X)
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
Maybe this will help.

Wiki: Objectivity (philosophy)
Objectivity is both a central and elusive philosophical category. While there is no universally accepted articulation of objectivity, a proposition is generally considered to be objectively true when its truth conditions are met and are "mind-independent"—that is, not met by the judgment of a conscious entity or subject.
Click to expand...

Thats a bit better.

But here is something I already said before.

Instinct
"existing independently of perception or an individual's conceptions"
aka
"not met by the judgment of a conscious entity or subject"

Instinct - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Biological imperative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now the law was created to protect the survival of others to give everyone a fair chance at its instinct of "biological imperatives".
The only objective moral is the survival of ourselves
 
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Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
:facepalm:

BY DEFINTION, instinct is not objective. It exists only within the psyche.

Seriously, if you don't understand what a word means, don't use it.
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It is beyond our psyche/consciousness.
We instinctly do it without realizing it.
You try to stab me and I will try and stop you instinctly.
I won't even think about it.
I will protect myself even if I get hurt doing it.
Me getting hurt won't be going through my mind.
It is instinct.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Warren Clark said:
It is beyond our psyche/consciousness.
We instinctly do it without realizing it.
You try to stab me and I will try and stop you instinctly.
I won't even think about it.
I will protect myself even if I get hurt doing it.
Me getting hurt won't be going through my mind.
It is instinct.
Click to expand...
:facepalm:
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
:facepalm:
Click to expand...

Actually.
I thought about it but you responded before I could edit it. =P

My bad for including psyche AND concioussness.

Instinct IS a part of our psyche.
Consciousness has no part there.
As biological imperatives are instinctive and apart of every psyche.

So the moral of our survival is apart of our psyche.
We all share the first instinct to survive.

I guess I stem from the Freudian School. :p

Psyche (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Right. And nothing of the psyche qualifies as objective. "Things fall down" is true no matter what we think. That's objective.
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Storm said:
Right. And nothing of the psyche qualifies as objective. "Things fall down" is true no matter what we think. That's objective.
Click to expand...

Yes and animals (humans are animals) instinctly fight for their survival. (objective)
But, like the link I posted before showed, dogs can lose their will to live when their partner dies just like humans lose their will to live.
Just like not all things fall down.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Warren Clark said:
Yes and animals (humans are animals) instinctly fight for their survival. (objective)
But, like the link I posted before showed, dogs can lose their will to live when their partner dies just like humans lose their will to live.
Just like not all things fall down.
Click to expand...
No, instinct is not objective. But I'm not bored enough to keep talking to a wall.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Warren Clark said:
Yes and animals (humans are animals) instinctly fight for their survival. (objective)
But, like the link I posted before showed, dogs can lose their will to live when their partner dies just like humans lose their will to live.
Just like not all things fall down.
Click to expand...
What is the reason we should eat or have sex, just cause our instincts say so? The fact that people generally don't want to die isn't an objective reason to follow that intinct.
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
Its not about everybody else doing it.
That would be conformity.
I am talking about isntinct.
If nobody else existed maybe one person, you would still fight to survive.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
In other words, instinct being objective doesn't make it an objective reason to follow it. A reason to follow the preserving of life instinct would be because you value life as opposed to death regardless of what our instincts tell us. I would argue, and have, that we should look all see it that same way because it can be objectively proven that if someone doesn't want to sustain their life then they are somehow mentally ill. I however can not objectively say why we should value life over death but isn't really an issue for me. Anyone who would value pain in suffering I would say are somehow mistaken or misinformed.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
painted wolf said:
That is one example.... accidental manslaughter, collateral damage are a few others.

wa:do
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The road to hell is paved with good intentions.......

Not too sure from where that came, but I think it is quite true.
 
Warren Clark

Warren Clark

Informer
idav said:
In other words, instinct being objective doesn't make it an objective reason to follow it. A reason to follow the preserving of life instinct would be because you value life as opposed to death regardless of what our instincts tell us. I would argue, and have, that we should look all see it that same way because it can be objectively proven that if someone doesn't want to sustain their life then they are somehow mentally ill. I however can not objectively say why we should value life over death but isn't really an issue for me. Anyone who would value pain in suffering I would say are somehow mistaken or misinformed.
Click to expand...

In my opinion,
Anyone that values pain and suffering is "mentally ill" rather than the person that would end their life because they do not value pain and suffering.

Objectively we all have an instinct to live and seek a higher quality of life.
Therefor the moral is instilled that inorder for everyone to live life to the best of their ability, murder is illegal as it would hinder another's ability to live and seek a higher quality of living.
This is why I am for decriminalizing marijuana. For some people, it makes things less stressful and easier to live.
 
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