Where is God during disasters?

[Melody]

I heard on the radio this afternoon of someone who claims that God destroyed New Orleans in order to prevent the city from holding a gay festival, Southern Decadence Days. Was the destruction of New Orleans an act of God? What do you think?

ahahahahaha!!!! My sister (a licensed massage therapist) owes me a free massage! I told her some nut job would make this a re-enactment of Sodom and Gomorrah and she said "Nah". Woohoo....free massage!

No, I don't think New Orleans was an act of God as some type of punishment. Anymore than forgetting I left the tap running and then claiming it's an act of God that my sink ran over.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Neither irony or sarcasm is argument.

No - it's description.

 

[Quiddity]

If you can honestly look at this disaster and not blame "your god" then denial must be stage in your thought process.

Wousers...

~Victor

 

[JerryL]

And I can't help but think, why would anyone's so called God let these type of things happen. And all I here is people saying they thank God they are alive. Well why don't they un-thank God for the people that are dead.

For a soverign God "directly involved in creating them".

For a clockwork God "nowhere around".

It's interesting, listening to comments from NewOrleans, I hear "when are they gonna [get food, rescue me, move me from the superdome, stop the looters, get buses here]. Then, when the busses or food arrive "thank God, thank you Jesus, I've been praying and Jesus brough me a bus".

The Bus that doesn't arrive is the government's fault, the bus that does is God's credit?

I'm in about the same boat on some of the large gatherings. They are complaining about rape and violence... but there are (in the convention center's case) about 2000. Umm, how about you police yourselves? Form yourselves into structure? Protect each other, help each other, form your own communications links.. create your own plan.

I sometimes wonder if this is a universal condition, merely the part that gets to the press, or if it's that the people who would do such things are the kind of people who would leave a sub-sea-level city *before* it actually got hit by an oncoming Cat5 hurricane (which Katrina was the day before when it was aiming straight at NO).

 

[michel]

For a soverign God "directly involved in creating them".

For a clockwork God "nowhere around".

It's interesting, listening to comments from NewOrleans, I hear "when are they gonna [get food, rescue me, move me from the superdome, stop the looters, get buses here]. Then, when the busses or food arrive "thank God, thank you Jesus, I've been praying and Jesus brough me a bus".

The Bus that doesn't arrive is the government's fault, the bus that does is God's credit?

I'm in about the same boat on some of the large gatherings. They are complaining about rape and violence... but there are (in the convention center's case) about 2000. Umm, how about you police yourselves? Form yourselves into structure? Protect each other, help each other, form your own communications links.. create your own plan.

I sometimes wonder if this is a universal condition, merely the part that gets to the press, or if it's that the people who would do such things are the kind of people who would leave a sub-sea-level city *before* it actually got hit by an oncoming Cat5 hurricane (which Katrina was the day before when it was aiming straight at NO).

I couldn't help but comment on your "The Bus that doesn't arrive is the government's fault, the bus that does is God's credit?"

It's true though; even one of my sons, an ardent atheist comes up with 'thank God for that!" (usually when someone gives him some money) - it's just a 'learned response'

 

[JerryL]

It's true though; even one of my sons, an ardent atheist comes up with 'thank God for that!" (usually when someone gives him some money) - it's just a 'learned response'

I understand and have said the same thing, but I don't have the impression from having listend to the recordings of the comments I'm referring to that this was the case. The people I've heard were predominantly religious and asserting that it was God's intervention that brought a bus ("I've been praying and Jesus has answered them"). Of course, I have to think if God really wanted to do nice things for them he would have not sent a hurricane.

 

[Malus 12:9]

[size=-1]Searching for [/size]God during disasters[size=-1] elicits more questions than answers, it seems.
[/size]

 

[michel]

I understand and have said the same thing, but I don't have the impression from having listend to the recordings of the comments I'm referring to that this was the case. The people I've heard were predominantly religious and asserting that it was God's intervention that brought a bus ("I've been praying and Jesus has answered them"). Of course, I have to think if God really wanted to do nice things for them he would have not sent a hurricane.

Of course, I'm not being serious here (This is sheer flippancy), but if you look at it that way, ought not the 'believers' have prayed for the hurricane not to come in the first place ?

 

[Malus 12:9]

ought not the 'believers' have prayed for the hurricane not to come in the first place ?

How were they to know this, and I do not see how praying can intefrere with the natural
disasters and flaws of the Earth

MICH

 

[Prophet Rashad]

I wish I knew where God was at times like this, I will certainly question him if given the chance.

We are so busy trying to pull God out of American Life, taking him out of Schools, out to the Pledge of Alligence, and out of public life. Why do we then get upset when a disaster happens or mass murders happen. He is doing what this country has been asking get out of our lives.

-The Prophet

 

[michel]

Since I live very close to New Orleans this Hurrican Katrina stuff is really disheartening. I mean really bad stuff. BAD.

And I can't help but think, why would anyone's so called God let these type of things happen. And all I here is people saying they thank God they are alive. Well why don't they un-thank God for the people that are dead.

Ugh it just gets me heated up....... :banghead3 :banghead3 :banghead3

I can understand the emotions you are feeling Rex, and I sympathize. I don't think , for a moment, that God lets these things happen; it could be argued that it is of man's own doing...............

 

[JerryL]

We are so busy trying to pull God out of American Life, taking him out of Schools, out to the Pledge of Alligence, and out of public life. Why do we then get upset when a disaster happens or mass murders happen. He is doing what this country has been asking get out of our lives.

A beautiful example of my point. There's a murder, it's man's doing. There's no murder, it's God's doing. It's a pity hypocracy doesn't hurt.

BTW, since you think America used to be more Godly, why have we always had murders (in point of fact, voilent crime in america has been going down for 10 years).

 

[BUDDY]

From IdahoStateJounal.com:​

​

Donations can also be made at www.unitedway.org. Pledges to the United Way Hurricane Katrina Response Fund may also be made by phone at 1-800-272-4630. All funds will be allocated for both front-line disaster relief and long-term recovery needs, as determined by local United Ways in affected areas in coordination with a vast network of human service agencies and volunteer centers. Additionally, many other communities are suffering indirectly as they host thousands of evacuees, many of whom will likely be there for weeks or months to come.

The local Red Cross chapter has donation cans available for businesses to collect for the hurricane relief fund and also has information on volunteering in the hurricane zone. They always welcome people interested in training to be disaster relief volunteers for future disasters. Call the Red Cross office at 522-8262 ext. 702, for more information. Southeast Idahoans can also find volunteer opportunities on the United Way web site by clicking on the "Volunteer!" box at www.idaho.unitedway.org.​

Parrish's fund-raiser

Chubbuck retailer Parrish's is donating 10 percent of sales to Hurricane Katrina relief beginning today.

Making room for victims

One Pocatello man is looking to provide a couple of bedrooms for some of those displaced by Hurricane Katrina. He's not having much luck though.

"Everyone is passing the buck," Michael Chism said. "It's hard because I'm sitting in this four-bedroom house with plenty of room to help someone."

Chism has called several public officials without learning how to offer his housing for those in need.

"All we're trying to do is say, 'Hey, we have a house,'" Chism said. "I bet a whole lot of Americans would open up their houses."

According to an Associated Press story Thursday, people as far west as Oregon and Arizona, east to Georgia and north to New Hampshire are offering their spare rooms. The problem is getting the word to the people who need it.

Hundreds of people are listing these available spaces on a Web site called Craigslist.org. Unfortunately, most of the people in need of these places don't have the resources needed to learn about offers for lodging.

Beware of scam artists BOISE - In the wake of widespread devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida, the Idaho Department of Finance today warned investors to beware of opportunistic investment scams.

"Bottom-feeding con artists always try to find ways to exploit tragic headlines to cash in on unsuspecting investors," said Gavin Gee, Director of the Department. "In the aftermath of this week's tragedies, investors should be patient and cautious when making decisions about their investments or finances."

To contact the Department visit finance.idaho.gov, or call (208) 332-8000 or toll free (within Idaho only) 1-888-346-3378.

UI launches humanitarian efforts

MOSCOW - University of Idaho President Timothy White announced that the university is immediately accepting students who enrolled or planned to enroll at universities in the areas affected by hurricane "Katrina." Students will be placed in fall classes with available space, with first priority given to Idaho residents. They also may enroll for the January, 2006, semester.

Ten year-long tuition, fee and housing scholarships will be offered to any student whose college career has been interrupted by Katrina. Interested students may contact UI Admissions Office immediately, (208) 885-6326.

The University of Idaho also will collect humanitarian aid via cash, checks, credit cards and UI payroll deductions, said White. Contributions will be transferred directly to the American Red Cross.

Resource list for missing persons, information and donations

It may be difficult to get through because of downed communication lines, and the overwhelming life-saving measures that are taking place. If you are aware of additional phone numbers or Web site that may be useful, please let us know.

To report missing persons: please call the American Red Cross at 1(866) 438-4636.

Other important numbers

€ Louisiana Governor Blanco's hotline: 800-469-4828

€ Louisiana Evacuation Office: 225-925-7514

€ Louisiana State Police: 225-925-7708 or 7709

Shelter Information

€ Red Cross- 1(866)(438-4636)

Triage Phone Numbers

€ Alexandria: 800-841-5778 € Baton Rouge: 800-349-1372 € Slidell/Hammond: 866-280-7724 € Lafayette: 800-901-3210 € Lake Charles: 866-280-2711 € Monroe: 866-280-7287 € Houma/Thibodaux: 800-228-9409

Cash donations and/or volunteers

€ American Red Cross 1-800-435-7669 English or 1-800-257-7575 Spanish € Operation Blessing 1-800-436-6348 € America's Second Harvest 1-800-344-8070 € Adventist Community Services 1-800-381-7171 € Catholic Charities, USA 703 549-1390 € Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Idaho Pocatello Mission 233-0130 € Christian Disaster Response 941-956-5183 or 941-551-9554 € Christian Reformed World Relief Committee 1-800-848-5818 € Church World Service 1-800-297-1516 € Convoy of Hope 417-823-8998 € Lutheran Disaster Response 1-800-638-3522 € Mennonite Disaster Service 717-859-2210 € Nazarene Disaster Response 888-256-5886 € Presbyterian Disaster Assistance 1-800-872-3283 € Salvation Army 1-800-725-2769 € Southern Baptist Convention - Disaster Relief 1-800-462-8657, ext. 6440 € United Methodist Committee on Relief 1-800-554-8583.

National volunteers

€ Medical personnel: Doctors call: 601-987-3079; EMTs call: 601-576-8085; Nurses call: 601-497-8022.

€ Non-professional volunteers: contact Red Cross, Salvation Army or other established volunteer organizations.

Editors Note: If you know of a Katrina relief fund-raiser or event, send it to us at [email protected], and we will add it to our resource list.

 

[Katzpur]

To say that an omnipotent and omniscient God created the rules governing/directing natural disaster is nothing more than a sanitized way of saying that God inflicted that disaster.

I believe He allowed it to happen.

 

[TashaN]

1. God is on summer vacation.

2. New Orleans is in God's blind spot.

3. God wanted to kill all those people because it's their "destiny" to be mass murdered.

4. God doesn't really care

5. Apart of the "bigger picture"

6. God doesn't exist.

I can say this is one of the reasons why God punish us or remind us.

However,


It is the teaching of Islam that it is through the will of God Almighty that this has happened but then the positive side is the way mankind has reacted. People will question why it is taking place, why the enormity of loss of human life, but it is that aspect which is beyond us and it is our firm belief that any such disaster, anything of that nature happening, is through the will of God Almighty. Allah knows best. We certainly have the right to question. It's a time for us to really think of ourselves, our deeds, our acts, and we need to ponder over this. It's a sign that none of us are going to live for an indefinite period, therefore it is a sign for us to do something very positive. Death always takes place. When a person is born one thing guaranteed is death but what form it takes is always beyond us. People of faith need to have a very firm belief in God Almighty, that at the end of the day it is through his will and it is for the betterment of mankind at large.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I believe He allowed it to happen.

It's interesting how theists, who implicitly or explicitly assert Intelligent Design, sidestep claims of Divine causation when faced with mass disasters.

 

[Quiddity]

It's interesting how theists, who implicitly or explicitly assert Intelligent Design, sidestep claims of Divine causation when faced with mass disasters.

How is that sidestepping? If you believe God started it all and allowed for natural processes take place. How does your comment fit in that?

~Victor

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How is that sidestepping? If you believe God started it all and allowed for natural processes take place. How does your comment fit in that?

Perhaps you're correct; perhaps it's no more than the connotation I attach to different formulations. So, let me ask you a question: Given an omniscient and omnipotent God, do you agree that saying

"God started it all and allowed for natural processes take place."​

and saying

"God orchestrated the results"​

are functionally equivalent?

 

[Katzpur]

It's interesting how theists, who implicitly or explicitly assert Intelligent Design, sidestep claims of Divine causation when faced with mass disasters.

What I find interesting, Deut, is your remarkable talent for twisting other people's words.

I said that God established natural laws, some of which occasionally lead to catastrophic events. I believe that, should He have decided to intervene, He could have diverted Katrina or even stopped it in its tracks. He chose not to, however. How you manage to contrue my statements as sidestepping anything is beyond me. I was entirely straightforward in how I explained my position.

Obviously, this whole issue is only an issue at all if there is, in fact, a God. What I'm curious about is what kind of limits you personally would set for God (if you believed in Him at all) that would not disqualify Him from being God. Are you saying that God would have had to create a world without any suffering at all in order to prove Himself to you? Would each and every person on earth have to die peacefully in his or her sleep at the precise moment life ceased to be "worth living" in order for there to be a God worth worshipping? Would there be no disease, no handicaps and no tragic injuries? Or would you find these kinds of things "acceptable" for a Higher Being to allow, as long as God just allowed suffering one insignificant soul at a time. Maybe He just shouldn't permit "mass disasters" from happening. Is that what you're saying? How many individuals should we grant Him the right to make suffer before those of us who believe in Him should say, "Hey, that's one too many tragedies! There is no God!"? Would 50 or 60 lives lost in an apartment fire come in under your acceptable limit? How about 300 people displaced by a toronado? Or would it have be to be closer to 3000? Or maybe it's not numbers at all. Maybe it's strictly the degree of suffering that counts. Enlighten me.

Kathryn

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's interesting how theists, who implicitly or explicitly assert Intelligent Design, sidestep claims of Divine causation when faced with mass disasters.

What I find interesting, Deut, is your remarkable talent for twisting other people's words.

I've distorted nothing.

I said that God established natural laws, some of which occasionally lead to catastrophic events. I believe that, should He have decided to intervene, He could have diverted Katrina or even stopped it in its tracks. He chose not to, however.

If you claim an omniscient and omnipotent Diety, you actually believe more than that. You believe that YHWH created both the people and the forces of nature such that every bit of this tragedy would occur and knowing full well that it would occur. Further more, you believe that this diety could have orchestrated both different laws and different outcomes. YHWH's culpability and premeditation was absolute, for your YHWH is the Intelligent Designer who designed all to unfold precisely as it did.