Where is God during disasters?

[Katzpur]

I've distorted nothing.

I say you have. Furthermore, nothing you said in your last post proved me wrong.

If you claim an omniscient and omnipotent Diety, you actually believe more than that. You believe that YHWH created both the people and the forces of nature such that every bit of this tragedy would occur and knowing full well that it would occur. Further more, you believe that this diety could have orchestrated both different laws and different outcomes. YHWH's culpability and premeditation was absolute, for your YHWH is the Intelligent Designer who designed all to unfold precisely as it did.

It would be nice if you'd actually respond to my question instead of just telling me what you perceive my beliefs to be. (By the way, I may not be an expert on very many things, but I can assure you that I am the world's number one authority on what I believe. I am also fully capable of explaining what I believe without your help. It would be a truly welcome change to see you stick to explaining your own beliefs for a change instead of telling other posters what they believe.)

 

[JerryL]

It would be nice if you'd actually respond to my question instead of just telling me what you perceive my beliefs to be. (By the way, I may not be an expert on very many things, but I can assure you that I am the world's number one authority on what I believe. I am also fully capable of explaining what I believe without your help. It would be a truly welcome change to see you stick to explaining your own beliefs for a change instead of telling other posters what they believe.)

It's inescapable. It's like saying "If you believe I ate every color of M&M, then you believe I ate a red one".

If you believe that an all-knowing and all-powerful being created every aspect of reality; then he's directly responsable for that hurricane that he knew would be the inevitable result.

I didn't kill him officer, I just put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. It was all mechanics that did it.

 

[Malus 12:9]

Let me ask the Katz person some questions on her opinion.

Let's say 50% of the people affeced by the disaster were Christian (or LDS for you)
The other 50% are pure non-believers of God.

If the approximate results are the same for both non believers AND believers, what difference does it make? If God caused it to happen, what can a non believer say on that, for to them, there is no God.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

When you become satisfied of death then you are more prone to die because you don't try to fight it. Yea you could say when it's your time to go it's your time to go, but that time will be sooner if you don't have the desire to live.

It's entirely possible to accept that death is both inevitable and not a bad thing, and not become reckless or lose the desire to live. An acceptance of death and the desire to live aren't actually mutually exclusive.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... I can assure you that I am the world's number one authority on what I believe.

But clearly not on the logical implications of those beliefs.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Of course, I'm not being serious here (This is sheer flippancy), but if you look at it that way, ought not the 'believers' have prayed for the hurricane not to come in the first place ?

In the continuace of flippancy;

They did...that's why they're still there waiting for God to send them a bus.

 

[Katzpur]

Let me ask the Katz person some questions on her opinion.

Let's say 50% of the people affeced by the disaster were Christian (or LDS for you)
The other 50% are pure non-believers of God.

If the approximate results are the same for both non believers AND believers, what difference does it make?

I'm not sure it does make a difference.

If God caused it to happen, what can a non believer say on that, for to them, there is no God.

I don't know. Ask a non-believer. If you're a non-believer, then why don't you tell me?

Katz person

 

[Katzpur]

But clearly not on the logical implications of those beliefs.

Don't blame me if you don't get it. And again, a witty comeback, but still no answer to my questions.

 

[Katzpur]

It's inescapable. It's like saying "If you believe I ate every color of M&M, then you believe I ate a red one".

If you believe that an all-knowing and all-powerful being created every aspect of reality; then he's directly responsable for that hurricane that he knew would be the inevitable result.

I didn't kill him officer, I just put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. It was all mechanics that did it.

You're right. He created the universe and everything in it. He created the laws which govern the universe. Bad things happen.

So now I guess I'm supposed to just stop believing in Him and refuse to worship Him. Sorry, that's not going to happen. You see, I think He's got a better perspective of the entire picture than any of us do. The fact that it's tragic doesn't necessarily mean that it's cruel.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

And I can't help but think, why would anyone's so called God let these type of things happen. And all I here is people saying they thank God they are alive. Well why don't they un-thank God for the people that are dead.

Ugh it just gets me heated up.....

Honestly, I cannot see why you should be heated up about it. I don't believe any gods or supernatural powers saved any people....at the same time, it doesn't bother me that some people do believe that.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

God created us with freewill and if we are stupid enough to build our homes on unstable cliffs or 6' below sea level in an area well known for hurricanes, then how is God at fault?

Victim mentality......ugh.

So the children who were born to poor families in New Orleans had it coming, huh?

Blame the victim mentality....ugh.

 

[Cynic]

Again, the disease example comes to mind; many of what once were deadly scourges are now nearly or completely controlled.

This is somewhat incorrect. There are several diseases that have now evolved resistence to prescription drugs, such as Tuberculosis. There are now strands of TB that are resistent to antibiotics, rendering these active strands of TB untreatable.

What researchers have noticed is that diseases will develop a strong resistence, perhaps even more life threatening toxins, in response to the antiobiotic drugs we use. A certain disease was life threatening in one region of the world, yet the same disease with different strands weren't life threatening at all in another. Why is this? Evolution plays an arms race, and you can even see this happen between species of animals that develop toxins, and the species of animals that develop resistence to the same toxins, as they continue to hunt the former as prey. This is why certain species of poisonous frog, developed poisen that is so extremely toxic.

Some diseases have evolved strands that are more resistent and deadly. TB is already making a comeback. This is a problem on the rise that we are now beginning to face.

 

[michel]

So the children who were born to poor families in New Orleans had it coming, huh?

Blame the victim mentality....ugh.

Not really; Blame the people who drained 'the bowl' of new Orleands to build a city on a flood plain. Perhaps they had no way of fortelling what would happen in the future, bu I suppose the blame (If there is any) should be put at the feet of those who sited New Orleands where it is.:help:

 

[Malus 12:9]

I'm not sure it does make a difference.
I don't know. Ask a non-believer. If you're a non-believer, then why don't you tell me?

No, I wanted to hear your opinion

The fact that it's tragic doesn't necessarily mean that it's cruel.

While that may be sufficiently correct, you also believe that God "Allows" disasters to happen, right?

So are you stating, (from what is read in your posts) that God allowed the disaster to
happen, but, because God "let it happen" it isn't cruel? What if the forecasters and weather beaureu knew it was coming, but didn't publicize it on radio or television.

That would be cruel though, wouldn't it? :jam:

 

[Malus 12:9]

You're right. He created the universe and everything in it. He created the laws which govern the universe. Bad things happen.

Or does He continually say to Himself, "I'm tired of this world, wonder if I can wipe everything off like a computer and start over"?

 

[michel]

No, I wanted to hear your opinion

While that may be sufficiently correct, you also believe that God "Allows" disasters to happen, right?

So are you stating, (from what is read in your posts) that God allowed the disaster to
happen, but, because God "let it happen" it isn't cruel? What if the forecasters and weather beaureu knew it was coming, but didn't publicize it on radio or television.

That would be cruel though, wouldn't it? :jam:

I wanted to see if I could answer the question you put to Kazpur - but i don't think I have understood it.......

I don't think God 'allows' or 'steps in' - It is all part of the human world, and we are to deal with these disasters as and when they come. Apart from the very regretable loss of life, and the awful mental image I have of all who have been made homeless, I believe, if you look deep enough, there is good:-

The Salvation army, who went out to provide soup kitchens; neighbouring towns where people took victims in. Just as there is bad - the looters.

I see these events as being 'Tests' by God, ones from which he distances himself.

AND I do not accept 'The cruely of God' argument at those who have lost their lives - personally, there are many times when I would wish to be pain free (mentally and physically) - and be reuinited with my loved ones........

 

[Malus 12:9]

I don't think God 'allows' or 'steps in' -

And suprisingly I agree with you MICH, howevr perhaps I should have rephrazed my
question to "Katz" more clearly.

Here is another view. Read Genesis 6:5-7. Does not it explain (whether taken from context or not) that the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart? Followed by the comment "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air."

And thus apparently he did through a natural disaster. If He was inclined to think
that way back then, why not now? God does not change..

 

[michel]

And suprisingly I agree with you MICH, howevr perhaps I should have rephrazed my
question to "Katz" more clearly.

Here is another view. Read Genesis 6:5-7. Does not it explain (whether taken from context or not) that the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart? Followed by the comment "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air."

And thus apparently he did through a natural disaster. If He was inclined to think
that way back then, why not now? God does not change..

a) you are refering to the old testament, which we believe was totally 'flawed'
But perhaps, more importantly, I think I might have an idea to the answer - which I have posted as a separate thread The 'cruel God' belief......... ; would you mind reading that, Renaldo, I have a feeling that the answer to your question lies in that new thread.

Maybe not.........but I'd be glad if you would read it anyway.....

 

[constantine]

creating... what is consistent is creation creates creation...
a perfect god would give us a perfect world.....but our world is fragile and the time it took to evolve to our present day .....is the difference between man colonizing mars or be destroyed by an asteroid or war...

god gave us this world, would we blame god if we destroyed it.....

 

[Malus 12:9]

you are refering to the old testament, which we believe was totally 'flawed'

Who do you refer to as "we"?

The old testament "describes" (it's version of) the creation of the world. IF that is flawed, then so is the earth, which I believe it is. Our world today is not the world
it used to be. without natural disater, with the Garden of Eden looking beautiful, without
dancing galloping zebras. The world was apparently perfect until man (and woman) and the serpent (satan) did their business.

And yes I will read your thread MICH, I always do