Where Is Jesus PHYSICALLY Right Now?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thank you. I liked these two paragraphs from the article you linked to. Even though I've never heard it expressed quite like that in any LDS writings, I'd say that this is almost exactly what we believe. I'm always glad to find some common ground between us.

The glorified bodies of the risen Saints will be distinguished by four transcendent endowments, or qualities. The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X describes these qualities as follows: "The endowments that shall adorn the bodies of the elect are:

1) Impassability, by which they can never again be subject to evil, nor to any kind of pain, nor to need of food, of rest or the like; 2) Brightness, by which they shall shine as the sun and as so many stars; 3) Agility, by which they shall be able to pass in a moment and without fatigue from one place to another and from earth to heaven; 4) Subtlety, by which without hindrance they shall be able to penetrate any body, as did Jesus Christ when risen from the dead."

Yet in spite of these transcendent qualities, the glorified bodies will remain physical bodies. As Dr. Ott explains, although subtlety will spiritualize our nature, this "is not to be conceived as a transformation of the body into a spiritual essence or as a refinement of the matter into an ethereal body." After the resurrection, the glorified bodies of the just will remain physical bodies with flesh and bones. We see this with the risen body of Our Lord, who not only allowed the apostles to touch Him, but also ate with them. "See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have. And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet… And they offered him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb. And when He had eaten before them, taking the remains, he gave to them" (Luke 24:39-40, 42-43).

Cool. Yeah, I got it wrong. I couldn't make sense of what I said, so I Googled. Lmao.

 

[savagewind]

If He has a spirit body, then how could He eat and let Thomas touch His wound?

He can make a body. He has power over natural phenomenon. He multiplied the fish and the loaves which are physical. The body he appeared in was physical.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Well, you know me... I'm one of those renegade Christians they call "Mormons." But seriously, I don't think Mormons are alone among Christians in believing in a physical Heaven and in the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. After all, when He was seen by His followers, 40 days after His ressurrection, ascending into Heaven, He was very much physical. Unless He shed His body somewhere between Earth and Heaven, I'm assuming He still has it.

I knew a Mormon once but I usually only talked to him about music (we were both into that metal stuff ).

Now it's sort of interesting. I don't know much about it. Just out of curiosity, would you say that Mormonism has a belief in physicalism, that everything is physical? Or are there things non-physical?

 

[Katzpur]

Now it's sort of interesting. I don't know much about it. Just out of curiosity, would you say that Mormonism has a belief in physicalism, that everything is physical? Or are there things non-physical?

I'm not sure this will answer your question or not, but Mormonism teaches that God created everything spiritually before it was created physically. It also teaches, though, that spirit is actually matter, just matter that is so refined that it cannot be discerned by the naked eye.

 

[Pegg]

If He has a spirit body, then how could He eat and let Thomas touch His wound?

how did the 3 angels who visited Abraham eat?

Spirits have the ability to put on fleshly bodies when they need to.

But humans do not have the ability to put on spirit bodies ever. Thats the difference.

 

[Katzpur]

Spirits have the ability to put on fleshly bodies when they need to.

Could you provide some scriptural support for this statement?

 

[Pegg]

Could you provide some scriptural support for this statement?

Abrahams 3 angelic visitors.
Genesis 18:1 Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mam′re while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves. Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”
6 So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: “Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.” 7 Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.


2 of those angels went onto the city of Sodom, they stayed with Lot and his family and took Lot by the hand to take him out of the city before it was destroyed:
Genesis 18:22 Then the men left from there and went toward Sod′om,...
Gen19:1 The two angels arrived at Sod′om by evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sod′om. When Lot saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the earth. 2 And he said: “Please, my lords, turn aside, please, into the house of your servant and stay overnight and have your feet washed. ...Then he made a feast for them, and he baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
4 Before they could lie down to sleep, the men of the city—the men of Sod′om from boy to old man, all of them—surrounded the house in one mob. 5 And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: “Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we may have sex with them.”
...15 As dawn was breaking, the angels became urgent with Lot, saying: “Get up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here with you, so that you will not be swept away in the error of the city!” 16 When he kept lingering, then because of Jehovah’s compassion for him, the men seized hold of his hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters, and they brought him out and stationed him outside the city.



There is also the account about Jacob and how he wrestled all night long with an angel in order to obtain a blessing from God.
Gen 32:24  Finally Jacob was left by himself. Then a man began to wrestle with him until the dawn broke. 25 When he saw that he had not prevailed over him, he touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was dislocated during his wrestling with him. 26 After that he said: “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” To this he said: “I am not going to let you go until you bless me.” 27 So he said to him: “What is your name?” to which he said: “Jacob.” 28 Then he said: “Your name will no longer be Jacob but Israel, for you have contended with God and with men and you have at last prevailed.” 29 In turn Jacob inquired: “Tell me, please, your name.” However, he said: “Why is it that you ask my name?” With that he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob named the place Pe·ni′el, for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life was preserved.”
31 And the sun rose upon him as soon as he passed by Pe·nu′el, but he was limping because of his hip. 32 That is why to this day the sons of Israel are not accustomed to eat the thigh sinew, which is on the socket of the hip joint, because he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip joint by the thigh sinew.

There is also the account in Genesis about the Angles who came down wrongfully from heaven and married woman and had children.

So angels really can materialize into human bodies. But im sure you agree that we cannot de-materialize and become spirit, right?

 

[Katzpur]

Abrahams 3 angelic visitors.
Genesis 18:1 Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mam′re while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves. Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”
6 So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: “Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.” 7 Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.


2 of those angels went onto the city of Sodom, they stayed with Lot and his family and took Lot by the hand to take him out of the city before it was destroyed:
Genesis 18:22 Then the men left from there and went toward Sod′om,...
Gen19:1 The two angels arrived at Sod′om by evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sod′om. When Lot saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the earth. 2 And he said: “Please, my lords, turn aside, please, into the house of your servant and stay overnight and have your feet washed. ...Then he made a feast for them, and he baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
4 Before they could lie down to sleep, the men of the city—the men of Sod′om from boy to old man, all of them—surrounded the house in one mob. 5 And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: “Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we may have sex with them.”
...15 As dawn was breaking, the angels became urgent with Lot, saying: “Get up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here with you, so that you will not be swept away in the error of the city!” 16 When he kept lingering, then because of Jehovah’s compassion for him, the men seized hold of his hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters, and they brought him out and stationed him outside the city.



There is also the account about Jacob and how he wrestled all night long with an angel in order to obtain a blessing from God.
Gen 32:24  Finally Jacob was left by himself. Then a man began to wrestle with him until the dawn broke. 25 When he saw that he had not prevailed over him, he touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was dislocated during his wrestling with him. 26 After that he said: “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” To this he said: “I am not going to let you go until you bless me.” 27 So he said to him: “What is your name?” to which he said: “Jacob.” 28 Then he said: “Your name will no longer be Jacob but Israel, for you have contended with God and with men and you have at last prevailed.” 29 In turn Jacob inquired: “Tell me, please, your name.” However, he said: “Why is it that you ask my name?” With that he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob named the place Pe·ni′el, for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life was preserved.”
31 And the sun rose upon him as soon as he passed by Pe·nu′el, but he was limping because of his hip. 32 That is why to this day the sons of Israel are not accustomed to eat the thigh sinew, which is on the socket of the hip joint, because he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip joint by the thigh sinew.

There is also the account in Genesis about the Angles who came down wrongfully from heaven and married woman and had children.

So angels really can materialize into human bodies. But im sure you agree that we cannot de-materialize and become spirit, right?

You have made the assumption that angels are "spirit beings." You're going to have to start by proving that to be the case.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

how did the 3 angels who visited Abraham eat?

Spirits have the ability to put on fleshly bodies when they need to.

But humans do not have the ability to put on spirit bodies ever. Thats the difference.

From Aquinas:

Objection 5. Further, eating is a purely animal function. Hence the Lord after His Resurrection ate with His disciples in proof of having resumed life (Luke 24). Now when angels appeared in their assumed bodies they ate, and Abraham offered them food, after having previously adored them as God (Genesis 18). Therefore the angels exercise functions of life in assumed bodies.



Reply to Objection 5. Properly speaking, the angels cannot be said to eat, because eating involves the taking of food convertible into the substance of the eater.
Although after the Resurrection food was not converted into the substance of Christ's body, but resolved into pre-existing matter; nevertheless Christ had a body of such a true nature that food could be changed into it; hence it was a true eating. But the food taken by angels was neither changed into the assumed body, nor was the body of such a nature that food could be changed into it; consequently, it was not a true eating, but figurative of spiritual eating. This is what the angel said to Tobias: "When I was with you, I seemed indeed to eat and to drink; but I use an invisible meat and drink" (Tobit 12:19).
Abraham offered them food, deeming them to be men, in whom, nevertheless, he worshipped God, as God is wont to be in the prophets, as Augustine says (De Civ. Dei xvi).

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: The angels in comparison with bodies (Prima Pars, Q. 51)


Also, some have said that the three visitors were the Holy Trinity or that at least one of them was the Son in a pre-Incarnation appearance.

 

[savagewind]

What is the physical body of heavenly creatures like?

 

[Katzpur]

What is the physical body of heavenly creatures like?

I don't know if you're asking anybody in particular, but in my understanding, an immortal physical body would look very much like a mortal physical body, aside from the fact that it would be perfect. There would be no deformities or anything of that sort.

 

[savagewind]

I don't know if you're asking anybody in particular, but in my understanding, an immortal physical body would look very much like a mortal physical body, aside from the fact that it would be perfect. There would be no deformities or anything of that sort.

Do humans possess the same supernatural power that they have? For instance getting from one dimension (their physical space) to another (our physical space) is one spuer power they must have.

 

[Shiranui117]

Do humans possess the same supernatural power that they have? For instance getting from one dimension (their physical space) to another (our physical space) is one spuer power they must have.

If Jesus' making Himself invisible and appearing in front of the Disciples within a locked room is anything to go by, it seems we might have the ability to teleport, ignore physical boundaries, or make ourselves visible and invisible.

 

[Pegg]

You have made the assumption that angels are "spirit beings." You're going to have to start by proving that to be the case.

Psalm 104:4  He makes his angels spirits,
His ministers a consuming fire.


Hebrews 1:13  But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

 

[Katzpur]

Psalm 104:4  He makes his angels spirits,
His ministers a consuming fire.


Hebrews 1:13  But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for holy service, sent out to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

That still doesn't prove your point, Pegg. You are trying to turn assumptions into facts, and it will never work. A spirit is merely the essence of life. Angels are truly spirits, but so is all life.

 

[Pegg]

That still doesn't prove your point, Pegg. You are trying to turn assumptions into facts, and it will never work. A spirit is merely the essence of life. Angels are truly spirits, but so is all life.

its not an assumption that angels are spirits. Thats what the bible says about them. They exist in heaven with God, so they must be spirits.

'angel' simply means 'messenger' in hebrew. And God has many spirit sons in heaven who act as messengers/angels from time to time.

You asked for scriptural proof that angels are spirits, i gave it, now you claim it doesnt prove anything.

The bible proves it.

 

[Katzpur]

its not an assumption that angels are spirits. Thats what the bible says about them. They exist in heaven with God, so they must be spirits.

Yeah, to you they must be, because you are convinced that nothing corporeal can exist in Heaven.

'angel' simply means 'messenger' in hebrew. And God has many spirit sons in heaven who act as messengers/angels from time to time.

Yeah, I know what it means, Pegg, and I don't discount the fact that angels are God's messengers. (See, we do agree on that much.)

The bible proves it.

Whatever. This is something we will not ever agree on. Please feel free to have the last word, though, since I see further discussion on the topic between the two of us to end up going nowhere.

 

[Fredcow9]

I know there is a similar thread, but I wanted to specify the question more.

If Jesus's body rose from the dead, where exactly does his body physically exist presently?

I've heard he is physically in heaven, but how is that so? It would imply heaven is physical, for only physical things exist in an area and thus take up space and thus have mass.

Where is his body currently?

I would say that its no different than what happens to you during the rapture or what happened to enoch. Jesus is likely not manifested in a body anymore but as a spirit that can take bodily form. Seeing how all things are possible through Jesus I can imagine he can be in whatever state wherever he wants to.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

What is the physical body of heavenly creatures like?

I know I'm not a Christian, but wouldn't it make sense that it would be like just any other physical body? All physical things follow the same proponents?

 

[nasheayahu]

No such person ever existed nor walked on the Land of Yashra'al!