shmogie
Well-Known Member
According to the koran and hadith, it is. Whether they are true muslims isn't my call.
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Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Poseidon Soter
Member
Right, but not every Muslim necessarily follows every twist and turn of the Koran or Hadith or even necessarily knows what the Koran or Hadith say on the matter. So you will find plenty of Muslims - perhaps even the majority - who don't see a contradiction between their faith and being a good citizen in a Western country. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are just that, exceptions.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
According to what you've been told about the Koran, perhaps. I've known many Muslims who disagree about what the Koran says and means.
The tip of the iceberg:
- Today's campuses are overwhelming staffed by left-leaning profs.
- 1/3 of campuses have "speech codes" that restrict speech more than is constitutionally allowed.
Check out: FIRE - Defending individual rights in higher education.
At least half of the world's Muslims want to live in a Sharia theocracy. Why would we think that ratio would change for those Muslims living in the West? And in fact, recent polls of Muslims living in the UK indicate that half of those Muslims want to live under a Sharia theocracy.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
But that's not government, and while it's true many universities are left leaning, right leaning ones do exist, usually religious in nature, that do the very same. But either way, institutions of higher learning should strive to be objective and encourage critical thought.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Yes, as we are still driven by territoriality (ie Security, Power, and Sensation) for one. I used to think that change would occur when the parties in conflict were threatened by some other condition and had to unite to fight for survival, but now I think it may be too late, and we are on the road to the demise of the human race. We KNOW global warming is real and that it's effects are imminent, but are reluctant as a world to aggressively address it. We will die clinging to the current business paradigm that is driving us over the cliff of extinction, as in 'from our cold, dead hand', LOL. And the situation only reinforces the notion that freedoms need to be curtailed even more than they already are.
Should a world-wide demise of the human race actually occur, it is possible a small percentage may survive, who will live in a neo type culture. People will live in office buildings and grow vegetables on the rooftops. No motorized vehicles; no industry. Transportation will be via foot-pedaled vehicles fashioned from various parts. If a nuclear war had occurred, insects my survive and mutate to dominate the Earth.
godnotgod
Thou art That
The world can no longer afford for any religion to be in political power. Literally all of them need to be quieted down and subdued by a more important agenda of worldwide cooperation amongst all people. I don't think Americans realize just how crucial the separation of church and state doctrine, which we still have in place, actually is to the survival of freedom, equality, and civil rights. And I don't think Americans realize just how dangerous the drive to officially recognize America as a Christian nation is; once achieved via legislation, Christians would make life far more miserable for the rest of us than we now experience. Let us not forget that it was Christians who instigated the Inquisition and perpetuated it for over 400 years.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
You can think whatever you wish, but it's as others have said: our gov plays the national security card when it wants to tighten it's grip. Republicans have been the leading voice in this since 9/11.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Yep precisely, and all the right-wingers true to the course will just say it's the left and the right.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The left concentrates on nannyism and heavyhanded unnecessary regulation which makes things extremely tight on both ends of the spectrum. Republicans don't try to control individual lives I tell them what they can do and what they can't do,
The left is far from innocent in this respect and are fanatical about controlling people on an individual level.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
However, nannyism and regulations, which I won't ask what you mean by those terms- don't equate to a loss of individual liberty. Businesses aren't individuals. What the right is doing is different. It definitely is attacking individual liberty and undermining the very notion of human rights.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
A whole lot of individual Liberty has been lost with nannyism over the last several decades with the left squarely to blame for it. Please stop lying about it.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
What individual liberties do you see those as being? If you can convince me, I'll agree you're right. Is accusing me of lying necessary? I'm just trying to have a discussion with you.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Don't worry, I'm not peeved or anything. I'm rather fond for sharp writing styles for debate purposes from time to time. :0)
I believe people have a right to individual pursuit of happiness. Things like freedom to ride without seat belts not wearing a helmet while riding motorcycles or drinking all the soda you can drink. I'm also proponent for free enterprise with minimal regulation.
A good example is the trucking industry. It's way over regulated to the point where it's like you're driving in a communist country with police checkpoints that drivers have to endure just about on a daily basis have to go through, plus they're limited with their freedom to drive their trucks when they feel they need to and stop when they feel they need to.
Basically nannyism is telling and dictating to individual people as towhat to eat, what to smoke, when not to smoke, whether it's in their private property or car or public places.
I've gotten tickets for parking my own lawn because I'm within the city limits. There other places were people have gotten tickets for parking the wrong way in their own private driveways and houses that they own. Where I live I was told it was part of a "beautification" law. It was pretty much Democrats who started the ball rolling by ticketing the people it took compliance as to what they can and cannot do with their own private property.
I have no recourse because there's a clause in the city contract when I bought the house but I still don't agree with it even though I do abide by it.
It's also in the form of rampant high taxation that goes well beyond representation in my opinion these would consist of government fees and fines that are far beyond what the face value of an original fine would be. Things like processing fees, service fees, the list can go on.
Most of these type of regulations are written up and passed by democrats far too numerous to count. And in most all cases, it's for " safety"and for the "children" ad nauseam. There also used to be a law passed where the smokers could smoke in restaurants in a ventilated section. This cost businesses thousands and thousands of dollars to install to be compliant. For a while, the law seem to work really well with smokers in a ventilated closed-off area and non-smokers in their own area would seem to be a wonderful compromise and I thought it would be a permanent solution because it was working so well. That is until Democrats decided to ban it outright and a lot of restaurants consequently lost tons and tons of money and business after installation of ventilation systems which are now rendered worthless very shortly after they were mandated to create ventilated rooms. This put a lot of bars out of business and there was a big stink about it in New York.
Another example is Bloomberg trying to ban businesses from selling super huge soda drinks I think that got national attention. Some older laws like seatbelt and helmet laws in New York were created an passed by democrats. I go to States like Pennsylvania and Iowa, it's like going back into the 70s where you have the freedom to decide whether you want to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle making safety your own responsibility rather than the state.
It's just a few examples here in New York. Outside of California, New York is the bluest and highest taxed state in the nation pretty much on par with California which is another huge Nanny state.
It's also a national and even International problem, but it is more prevalent in the heavy blue areas of the nation. Red states don't have as much nannyism going on which makes it clearly a Democrat agenda.
It's basically controlling a person's life and dictating how they should run it for them rather than have the person decide for himself that's a primary reason why I chose the Republican Party.
It's in my opinion that lost of individual freedom and a loss of the right for the pursuit of happiness.
Sadly the Democrats never used to be that way. I don't know what happened since because if they had stayed like the old Democrats like they were in the 60s and 70s, I might have not been Republican today.
But there are Republican laws that I disagree with too. One of my biggest issues is the incarceration rate for the nation where people are being arrested left and right for just about anything under the sun. Imagine my jaw dropping when I found out that most of the most incarcerated states were Republican run. I was flabbergasted. I'm also against the Patriot law it was supposed to have a sunset Clause but that never happened. It was a grevious violation of the constitutional right for a citizen to be represented if they are arrested. It's a downright scary policy.
But I feel Democrats and big government are the worst cancer than what the Republicans are doing with some exceptions such as the Patriot law.
There's enough blame for both parties for causing people to loose their freedom and one's own choice to pursue their own form of happiness.
It's why I started this thread asking if Liberty and Freedom was on its way out essentially because when you got two parties clamping down on the national and individual level there's not too many places to run to anymore.
Nanny state - Wikipedia
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Poseidon Soter
Member
Evidence please.
Perhaps because the majority of those Muslims living in the West are here because they don't want to live in a theocracy? Or as a result of exposure to alternative ways of thinking about things?
Evidence please. Moreover, this is just one country.
Poseidon Soter
Member
What do you have in mind?
Let me google that for you:
The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society
Survey of European Muslims finds 44% Align with Fundamentalist Views
You can find lots more...
Poseidon Soter
Member
If you look past the headlines, you'll see that the greatest support is only for certain aspects of Sharia - typically relating to family law - rather than the whole shebang - there is markedly less support for the criminal punishments mandated by Sharia, for example. And a typical view is that Sharia should only apply in Muslim countries, and only to Muslims in those countries (though there are exceptions to the latter view).
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Well, I have read it, as well as the hadith. It is clear and unambiguous. Some muslims want to have their cake, and eat it as well. For their own purposes and desires they twist and mold the words so that it says what they want it to say, like many stated Christians do with the Bible. As an example, some will say that when ol' mo wrote that non believers who wouldn't pay their special tax, were to be killed, it was symbolic. Most of the killing and torture bits, are dealt with like this, or somehow diluted or explained away.