WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[Windwalker]

No, as posted earlier there is a test to know if we know God or do not know God. According to the scriptures the difference is that God only give His Spirit to those who believe and obey His Word (Acts 5:32; Acts 2:38). The test to know if someone knows God and is from God is if they keep His commandments.

So you do believe it is earned. That is exactly how you read the above scripture. "If I obey, then I get God's Spirit.".

Unlike you, I believe the Spirit is a free gift from God through Grace. It is not deserve or earned anymore than I earned my lungs I breathe through, or the blood that courses through my veins.

The actual test to know who is born of God or not was given by Jesus. "By their fruits you shall know them". And the fruits are these, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.". All of which flow from a heart filled with Love.

You claim to know God, yet you do not act accordingly. You may believe whatever you wish about the right way to practice religion for yourself. If Saturday worship is important for you, then I would support your doing what helps you grow spiritually. But if the fruit of that belief is the self-righteousness and condemnations of others that you consistently display in your posts, then I would suggest you are on the wrong path, still trying to climb in another way, through the efforts of your ego.

You are not demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit as one would expect to see, certainly not in this thread at least; those fruits which Jesus said were indications of a true faith of the heart. I wish you well on your journey through this path. Hopefully it will open up for you at some point where you find that it is "not of works, lest anyone [our egos] may boast".

 

[2ndpillar]

The actual test to know who is born of God or not was given by Jesus. "By their fruits you shall know them". And the fruits are these, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

You quoted from the false apostle (Revelation 2:2) Paul, from his Galatians letter. As much as you think of the false prophet Paul, he isn't Jesus, and the fruit Yeshua requires, are actual acts as stated in Matthew 25:31-46, and those without these acts/works (good fruit (Matt 3:10)), will be "cut down and thrown into the fire", or according to Matt 25:31-46 will be "go away into... punishment". If you have problems with boasting, maybe, as with Paul, Satan could come and give you a pain in the side. There is nothing to boast about keeping the Commandments, "for they are not difficult (1 John 5:3) for that is a minimal requirement (Matthew 19:17), if you want to be "perfect", then you have to sell all of your goods, give them to the poor, and "follow me" (Matthew 19:21)

 

[Windwalker]

You quoted from the false apostle (Revelation 2:2) Paul, from his Galatians letter. As much as you think of the false prophet Paul, he isn't Jesus, and the fruit Yeshua requires, are actual acts as stated in Matthew 25:31-46, and those without these acts/works (good fruit (Matt 3:10)), will be "cut down and thrown into the fire", or according to Matt 25:31-46 will be "go away into... punishment". If you have problems with boasting, maybe, as with Paul, Satan could come and give you a pain in the side. There is nothing to boast about keeping the Commandments, "for they are not difficult (1 John 5:3) for that is a minimal requirement (Matthew 19:17), if you want to be "perfect", then you have to sell all of your goods, give them to the poor, and "follow me" (Matthew 19:21)

Yes, I know you are unique in your views about Paul. But you are not unique in your disdain and vitriol you spew at everyone you don't like because they disagree with you. Those are the fruits that I look at in determining the value of your beliefs to you.

 

[3rdAngel]

So you do believe it is earned. That is exactly how you read the above scripture. "If I obey, then I get God's Spirit.".

No! As posted to you many times now, according to the scriptures we are saved by Gods grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, genuine faith comes from believing and obeying what Gods Word says from the heart (see Romans 3:31; Romans 10:17) anything else according to James in James 2:13-26 is the dead faith of devils because the devils believe but do not obey. Therefore if your faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God's law then according to the scriptures we do not know God and are still in our sins and need to be born again into Gods new covenant promise through faith (see John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4.

Sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law (1 John 3:4) and not believing and following what Gods Word says in Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23. The testing question coming to each one of us will be who do we believe and follow; God or man? In times of ignorance God winks at when we do not know any better (James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Word in order to continue in our sins there remains no more sacrifice for our sins but a fearful looking forward to of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31.

According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures (Matthew 7:21-23) and according to John need to be born again because they do not know God (see 1 John 3:4-10 compare 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures the Sabbath points back to creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) and God commands us to remember it as a holy day of rest. Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Are you willing to gamble your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture.

Unlike you, I believe the Spirit is a free gift from God through Grace. It is not deserve or earned anymore than I earned my lungs I breathe through, or the blood that courses through my veins.

Please stop pretending I believe things that I do not not believe. That is bearing false witness especially after I have told you the opposite. Gods Spirit is indeed a free gift to all those who choose to believe and obey Gods Word. However the scriptures are very clear that faith means to believe and obey what Gods Word says and that to receive Gods Spirit we must have repentance of sin *Acts 2:38 because God only gives His Spirit to those who obey His Word (see Acts 5:32). According to the scriptures, those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and are in danger of the judgement to come (see 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 10:26-31).

The actual test to know who is born of God or not was given by Jesus. "By their fruits you shall know them". And the fruits are these, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.". All of which flow from a heart filled with Love.

As posted earlier according to the scriptures, we are saved by Gods grace through faith, It is a gift of God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it (Ephesians 2:8-9). However, genuine faith comes from believing and obeying what Gods Word says from the heart (see Romans 3:31; Romans 10:17) anything else according to James in James 2:13-26 is the dead faith of devils because the devils believe but do not obey. Therefore if our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God's law then according to the scriptures we do not know God and are still in our sins and need to be born again into Gods new covenant promise through faith (see John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4. I have already posted here many times now showing from the scriptures that no one loves God if they break anyone of God 10 commandments and that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law not breaking Gods law. That is the very definition of sin and that is what you are promoting. No one can claim to love God by breaking His law. Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says that loving our neighbor as our self is simply summing up obedience to those commandments that show us how to love our fellow man in Exodus 20:12-17. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul when he says in James 2:8-12 that we cannot claim to love our fellow man if we break any of Gods 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. John also is in agreement with Jesus, Paul, and James when he defines the love of God in 1 John 5:2-3 and says "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." So love is not separate from Gods law. Love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods law from the heart. This is why John also says in 1 John 2:3-4 that the test to know if we know God and the truth of His Word is if we obey Gods commandments; "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Perhaps its time to re-evaluate what you believe dear friend receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Words do not make them disappear because the words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus (see John 12:47-48)

You claim to know God, yet you do not act accordingly. You may believe whatever you wish about the right way to practice religion for yourself. If Saturday worship is important for you, then I would support your doing what helps you grow spiritually. But if the fruit of that belief is the self-righteousness and condemnations of others that you consistently display in your posts, then I would suggest you are on the wrong path, still trying to climb in another way, through the efforts of your ego. You are not demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit as one would expect to see, certainly not in this thread at least; those fruits which Jesus said were indications of a true faith of the heart. I wish you well on your journey through this path. Hopefully it will open up for you at some point where you find that it is "not of works, lest anyone [our egos] may boast".

According to the scriptures, whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. Jesus says abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. We are sinners indeed but we have a Saviour for those that our Heavenly father have given ears to hear and eyes to see. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for he gives not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. The above dear friend is all based on scripture do you know them? If so why do you not believe them? Your words have no truth in them because it is written; And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Receive Gods correction and be blessed, ignoring them does not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus.

Take Care.

 

[Windwalker]

No! As posted to you many times now, according to the scriptures we are saved by Gods grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

It is interesting how I just quoted that very verse as speaking out against legalism. And here you are quoting it yourself against what I am saying. Doesn't this make my point to you, how we can both be reading the same texts yet having completely different understandings of what the words mean?

Yet, you insist that your view is the only correct one. And since mine doesn't agree with yours, it means I'm not saved, don't have the Spirit, disobey God, mock God, teach lawlessness, and all the like. It seems that the real error here is in your lap.

Therefore if your faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God's law then according to the scriptures we do not know God and are still in our sins and need to be born again into Gods new covenant promise through faith (see John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4.

I believe I am following God's will. Are you sure I'm not? Is it your place to appoint yourself my judge?

Please stop pretending I believe things that I do not not believe. That is bearing false witness especially after I have told you the opposite.

Have you told me yet that you do not believe your interpretations of scripture are infallible? If so, I seem to have missed that. Because you've never outright answered that directly, I reasonably conclude that you do think that, but are embarrassed to admit it so you obfuscate instead. That's not bearing false witness, that's just answering for you when you refuse to answer.

You could change all that very simply. Just answer the question directly. Yes or no?

Gods Spirit is indeed a free gift to all those who choose to believe and obey Gods Word. However the scriptures are very clear that faith means to believe and obey what Gods Word says and that to receive Gods Spirit we must have repentance of sin *Acts 2:38 because God only gives His Spirit to those who obey His Word (see Acts 5:32).

Here we go! Now, let's look at this, shall we?

Do you believe we get God's Spirit if we obey God's word (as you read it)? Do you believe that the gift of the Spirit is conditioned upon our following the letters of the law as you read it? Do you believe someone needs to believe and obey in order to have the Spirit gifted to them?

Please answer this directly for me.

Let me explain my understanding in the meantime, which doubtless is the opposite of how you think. It is impossible to obey the will of God, if you do not have the Spirit to begin with! The verse you quote from Acts 5:22, that the Spirit is given to those who obey him, is not a conditional giving, that the Spirit is given to them because they obey him. Yet, I fully believe that is how you understand it.

How I read that same verse is this, "those who obey him, do so because the Spirit has been given to them". In other words, our egoic efforts do not and cannot suceed. And if you see those naturally fulfilling the law, then they are doing so because they have already been given the gift of the Spirit.

If you doubt this, then read this from Romans 8:4-9,

that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​

​

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.​

​

You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you​

So in other words, it is not conditional upon our obedience that we have God's Spirit. It's the other way around, upside down from what you are wanting us to believe. Our obedience is conditional upon having the Spirit.

This is the precise point I have been saying from my very first post to you.

All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him.

So you do believe you are a direct prophetic voice of God when you read scripture then? It appears so here. And you are his appointed judge of other Christians. I see.

I did mention delusion thought and delusions of grandeur before. Now I am beginning to think that is really the case here. Do you see yourself as a prophet sent by God to save the world? Please be truthful, if you are?

There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own.

Yes, you are speaking as God's oracle, aren't you?

Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops.

You are here to save mankind? You are specially chosen by God to make straight the way for our Lord, lay waste to those who make his pure words impure, and the like?

The above dear friend is all based on scripture do you know them? If so why do you not believe them?

I don't believe your interpretations of them, that's all I don't believe.

Your words have no truth in them because it is written; And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Since I keep his commandments, my words then are true. So it would seem, no?

BTW, you would benefit by using paragraphs more often, instead of these walls of text you post. It makes it really hard to follow your thoughts when they are all mashed together in a continuous stream of preachings.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, I know you are unique in your views about Paul. But you are not unique in your disdain and vitriol you spew at everyone you don't like because they disagree with you. Those are the fruits that I look at in determining the value of your beliefs to you.

Then again, you made a false witness with respect to supposedly quoting "Jesus", and in fact you were quoting Paul, to give the little Hitler a stool to stand on. Truth trumps false arguments. If you knew who you were quoting, it could possibly help your thought process, but I won't hold my breath in the meantime. It is not that I "like" you or "don't" like you, but you are an apparently good example of someone being in error, especially when they can't discern between the false prophet Paul, the "enemy", and the "son of man"(Mt 13:37-42) If someone is propagating the "tare" "seed", the message of the "enemy" (Matthew 13:39), and causing the little children to stumble, things will not go well for them (Matthew 18:6-7), for it would have been better for them to have "drowned in the depth of the sea". If someone sees a train or horde of locusts coming down the track upon their neighbor, whether that neighbor is good or bad, one is required to blow the horn, that they might "repent" and the LORD "relent" of the coming "day of the LORD", and let his people "escape"/"survive". (Joel 2) Now if one does not have "eyes to see" or "ears to hear" (Matthew 13:13-14), well it is not looking good for them, for the thief will sneak up on them when they are not looking (Matthew 24:43) and rob their house.

 

[Windwalker]

Then again, you made a false witness with respect to supposedly quoting "Jesus", and in fact you were quoting Paul,

Where? You mean when I cited Romans? I think I know that Jesus didn't write the book of Romans.

Truth trumps false arguments. If you knew who you were quoting, it could possibly help your thought process, but I won't hold my breath in the meantime.

Blah, blah, blah. Don't forget which one of the two of us has a degree in theology here.

It is not that I "like" you or "don't" like you, but you are an apparently good example of someone being in error, especially when they can't discern between the false prophet Paul, the "enemy", and the "son of man"(Mt 13:37-42) If someone is propagating the "tare" "seed", the message of the "enemy" (Matthew 13:39), and causing the little children to stumble, things will not go well for them (Matthew 18:6-7), for it would have been better for them to have "drowned in the depth of the sea". If someone sees a train or horde of locusts coming down the track upon their neighbor, whether that neighbor is good or bad, one is required to blow the horn, that they might "repent" and the LORD "relent" of the coming "day of the LORD", and let his people "escape"/"survive". (Joel 2) Now if one does not have "eyes to see" or "ears to hear" (Matthew 13:13-14), well it is not looking good for them, for the thief will sneak up on them when they are not looking (Matthew 24:43) and rob their house.

Translation: "I am the prophet of the end times, fire and brimstone upon those who do not heed my prophetic words!". You love playing that role, don't you?

 

[3rdAngel]

It is interesting how I just quoted that very verse as speaking out against legalism. And here you are quoting it yourself against what I am saying. Doesn't this make my point to you, how we can both be reading the same texts yet having completely different understandings of what the words mean? Yet, you insist that your view is the only correct one. And since mine doesn't agree with yours, it means I'm not saved, don't have the Spirit, disobey God, mock God, teach lawlessness, and all the like. It seems that the real error here is in your lap.

If you read the whole post and the scriptures that you are choosing to ignore you will see why your teachings are not biblical or supported in the bible. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness like you are promoting here. As posted earlier according to the scriptures, we are saved by Gods grace through faith, It is a gift of God and there is nothing that we can do to earn it (Ephesians 2:8-9). It is not legalism to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23. According to scripture, those who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says do not know God 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." and in 1 John 3:6-10, John goes on to show that sin (breaking Gods law) is the fruit of the children of the devil. James agrees in James 2:13-26 where he says the devils believe but do not obey Gods Word. So if we claim to believe Gods Word but do not obey Gods Word according to James all we have is the dead faith of devils. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 7:21-23 when he says "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity (sin)." According to the scriptures we are saved by Gods grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). Genuine faith therefore according to Jesus, James and Paul are all in agreement that genuine saving faith believes and obeys what Gods Word says (see Romans 3:31). What you are promoting here is a teaching of lawlessness and the dead faith of devils that Jesus, James and Paul all warn us against in the scriptures. We should therefore choose to believe and follow what Gods Word says over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9 and Matthew 7:13-23. This is why John also says in 1 John 2:3-4 that the test to know if we know God and the truth of His Word is if we obey Gods commandments; "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Perhaps its time to re-evaluate what you believe dear friend receive Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring Gods Words do not make them disappear because the words of God we choose to accept or reject become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus (see John 12:47-48)

I believe I am following God's will. Are you sure I'm not? Is it your place to appoint yourself my judge?

Once again dear friend I do not judge you. I have only been sharing the scriptures that are in disagreement with you and showing from the scriptures that according to John and others that no one can claim to know God and believe and follow what Gods Word says if they do not obey what Gods Word says. John says this is a test to know if we know God or do not know God and if we are telling the truth or deceiving our selves. We are told in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith following God or not in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and John makes it very clear in 1 John 2:3-4 if we know God or do not know God when he says; "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." Therefore Gods Word is our judge according to Jesus in John 12:47-48 and the words of God we choose to accept or reject will be our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures.

Have you told me yet that you do not believe your interpretations of scripture are infallible? If so, I seem to have missed that. Because you've never outright answered that directly, I reasonably conclude that you do think that, but are embarrassed to admit it so you obfuscate instead. That's not bearing false witness, that's just answering for you when you refuse to answer. You could change all that very simply. Just answer the question directly. Yes or no?

Yes you have been provided scripture and been told many times now that according to the scriptures, God only gives His Spirit to guide and teach those who believe and obey him (Acts 5:29; 32; Acts 2:38). I believe that God is my guide and teacher though His Spirit as shown in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 given to all those who believe and follow Gods Word. According to John we can know if someone is following God or not following God and telling the truth or not telling us the truth of Gods Word in 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." I am telling you the truth (Gods Word) but you do not believe me. I therefore believe Gods Words that I share with you are infallible and what God teaches me is true. Do I believe I am infallible? Absolutely not! Only Gods Word is infallible and true and we should believe and follow them as God gives us His Spirit to teach us and to guide us.

more to come.....

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Gods Spirit is indeed a free gift to all those who choose to believe and obey Gods Word. However the scriptures are very clear that faith means to believe and obey what Gods Word says and that to receive Gods Spirit we must have repentance of sin *Acts 2:38 because God only gives His Spirit to those who obey His Word (see Acts 5:32). According to the scriptures, those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and are in danger of the judgement to come (see 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 10:26-31).

Your response here...

Here we go! Now, let's look at this, shall we? Do you believe we get God's Spirit if we obey God's word (as you read it)? Do you believe that the gift of the Spirit is conditioned upon our following the letters of the law as you read it? Do you believe someone needs to believe and obey in order to have the Spirit gifted to them?
Please answer this directly for me. Let me explain my understanding in the meantime, which doubtless is the opposite of how you think. It is impossible to obey the will of God, if you do not have the Spirit to begin with! The verse you quote from Acts 5:22, that the Spirit is given to those who obey him, is not a conditional giving, that the Spirit is given to them because they obey him. Yet, I fully believe that is how you understand it. How I read that same verse is this, "those who obey him, do so because the Spirit has been given to them". In other words, our egoic efforts do not and cannot suceed. And if you see those naturally fulfilling the law, then they are doing so because they have already been given the gift of the Spirit. If you doubt this, then read this from Romans 8:4-9, that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you So in other words, it is not conditional upon our obedience that we have God's Spirit. It's the other way around, upside down from what you are wanting us to believe. Our obedience is conditional upon having the Spirit. This is the precise point I have been saying from my very first post to you.

Read what the scriptures say and what was posted to you. Genuine faith is to believe and obey what Gods Word says in order to receive the gift of Gods Spirit. According to the scriptures no one has Gods' Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. Not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23. According to scripture, those who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says do not know God 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." and in 1 John 3:6-10, John goes on to show that sin (breaking Gods law) is the fruit of the children of the devil. James agrees in James 2:13-26 where he says the devils believe but do not obey Gods Word. So if we claim to believe Gods Word but do not obey Gods Word according to James all we have is the dead faith of devils. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 7:21-23 when he says "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity (sin)." According to the scriptures we are saved by Gods grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). Genuine faith therefore according to Jesus, James and Paul are all in agreement that genuine saving faith believes and obeys what Gods Word says (see Romans 3:31). Look at what the scriptures say word for word. They are Gods Words dear friend not my words. Acts 2:38 says " Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. and again in Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him. Genuine faith believes and obeys what Gods Word says. Anything else James calls the dead faith of devils in James 2:13-26.

So you do believe you are a direct prophetic voice of God when you read scripture then? It appears so here. And you are his appointed judge of other Christians. I see.
I did mention delusion thought and delusions of grandeur before. Now I am beginning to think that is really the case here. Do you see yourself as a prophet sent by God to save the world? Please be truthful, if you are? Yes, you are speaking as God's oracle, aren't you? You are here to save mankind? You are specially chosen by God to make straight the way for our Lord, lay waste to those who make his pure words impure, and the like? I don't believe your interpretations of them, that's all I don't believe. Since I keep his commandments, my words then are true. So it would seem, no? BTW, you would benefit by using paragraphs more often, instead of these walls of text you post. It makes it really hard to follow your thoughts when they are all mashed together in a continuous stream of preachings.

No I am no one and I am not important. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for he gives not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear.

Take Care.

 

[2ndpillar]

Where? You mean when I cited Romans? I think I know that Jesus didn't write the book of Romans.

You attributed Galatians 5:22-23 to "Jesus", which is a false attribution, giving credence to Paul, which he does not deserve.

 

[2ndpillar]

Blah, blah, blah. Don't forget which one of the two of us has a degree in theology here.

Having a degree in the "traditions of men" and supposedly of the "wise and intelligent", sets you as among those without understanding (Matthew 11:25)

New American Standard Bible Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants.

 

[2ndpillar]

Translation: "I am the prophet of the end times, fire and brimstone upon those who do not heed my prophetic words!". You love playing that role, don't you?

One does not need to be a prophet to read Scripture versus the message of the "enemy". (Matthew 13:25)

Matthew 13:25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left"

 

[Windwalker]

You attributed Galatians 5:22-23 to "Jesus", which is a false attribution, giving credence to Paul, which he does not deserve.

No I did not attribute that quote to Jesus. I quoted Jesus saying "You shall know them by their fruits". Then I pointed to what Paul said as examples of what spiritual fruit looks like. I did not say, Jesus said what Paul lists in Galatians.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider spiritual fruit to be? Legalism?

 

[Windwalker]

Having a degree in the "traditions of men" and supposedly of the "wise and intelligent", sets you as among those without understanding (Matthew 11:25)

New American Standard Bible Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants.

My citing my degree is simply to say I know who wrote what in the Bible, probably a lot better than you do, since I have an education. That has zip to do with "traditions of men". Education is not a tradition. It's basic knowledge of facts. But considering you bypass education and go straight for the whole "I'm a prophet" silliness, there's really not much debate.

 

[Windwalker]

One does not need to be a prophet to read Scripture versus the message of the "enemy". (Matthew 13:25)

Matthew 13:25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left"

Yeah, blah, blah, blah, you can abuse the scripture to attack those you don't like. Yeah, you don't need to be a prophet to do that. Any run of the mill hater of others but themselves can do that. No special skill required. Just a lack of humility and grace is the only prerequisite for that talent.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yeah, blah, blah, blah, you can abuse the scripture to attack those you don't like. Yeah, you don't need to be a prophet to do that. Any run of the mill hater of others but themselves can do that. No special skill required. Just a lack of humility and grace is the only prerequisite for that talent.

Or the "tare" (weed trying to look like wheat) can dispute he is a product of the tare seed. The outcome of that is not good.

 

[2ndpillar]

My citing my degree is simply to say I know who wrote what in the Bible, probably a lot better than you do, since I have an education. That has zip to do with "traditions of men". Education is not a tradition. It's basic knowledge of facts. But considering you bypass education and go straight for the whole "I'm a prophet" silliness, there's really not much debate.

I don't know. You seem to quote from people other than those who produced the quote and seem unable to properly track down the source. Someone who casually read the bible could see the problem.

 

[2ndpillar]

No I did not attribute that quote to Jesus. I quoted Jesus saying "You shall know them by their fruits". Then I pointed to what Paul said as examples of what spiritual fruit looks like. I did not say, Jesus said what Paul lists in Galatians.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider spiritual fruit to be? Legalism?

You quoted Paul in Galatians, and said it was the message of "Jesus". Yeshua's message was that one was to produce "good fruit" or be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). Matthew 13:39-42 says that those "who commit lawlessness", such as the "many" followers of Paul's false gospel of grace, will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire". The "fruit" he listed as required is to feed the hungry, and cloth the naked (Matthew 25:34-35) to "inherit the kingdom". Other type of "works" are listed in James 2:14-26. Not that you take seriously the words of the brother of Yeshua. Apparently, James didn't kill and persecute the "righteous" (Matthew 23:27-37).

 

[Windwalker]

You quoted Paul in Galatians, and said it was the message of "Jesus". Yeshua's message was that one was to produce "good fruit" or be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3). Matthew 13:39-42 says that those "who commit lawlessness", such as the "many" followers of Paul's false gospel of grace, will be "gathered" and thrown into the "furnace of fire". The "fruit" he listed as required is to feed the hungry, and cloth the naked (Matthew 25:34-35) to "inherit the kingdom". Other type of "works" are listed in James 2:14-26. Not that you take seriously the words of the brother of Yeshua. Apparently, James didn't kill and persecute the "righteous" (Matthew 23:27-37).

Yeah, burn everyone you disagree with in the flames of hell, call them sinners, false prophets etc. Now to me, that is bad fruit. To quote Jesus, "Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit."

You may call me lawness and a sinner, but the path of love I follow bears good fruit in my life. A Bad tree does not produce good fruit. But a bad tree produces bad fruit. All your posts are full of venom and hatred towards liberals, towards other Christians, towards anyone who doesn't think like you.

"By their fruits you shall know them", is sage wisdom. What I am doing works in my life. What you are doing, is producing your vitriol you spew, it seems. You may wish to consider another path if you are sincerely seeking to know God.

There really is not much more to say to you. Do with this as you will. But if you are sincere, you should look at the trail of turds you leave in all your posts to me and everyone else here. Turds are not edible fruits. They just taste bad and make the body sick when you eat them.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yeah, burn everyone you disagree with in the flames of hell, call them sinners, false prophets etc. Now to me, that is bad fruit. To quote Jesus, "Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit."

You may call me lawness and a sinner, but the path of love I follow bears good fruit in my life. A Bad tree does not produce good fruit. But a bad tree produces bad fruit. All your posts are full of venom and hatred towards liberals, towards other Christians, towards anyone who doesn't think like you.

"By their fruits you shall know them", is sage wisdom. What I am doing works in my life. What you are doing, is producing your vitriol you spew, it seems. You may wish to consider another path if you are sincerely seeking to know God.

There really is not much more to say to you. Do with this as you will. But if you are sincere, you should look at the trail of turds you leave in all your posts to me and everyone else here. Turds are not edible fruits. They just taste bad and make the body sick when you eat them.

The "bad fruit" of Mt 7:16-18 is with respect to the "false prophets" of Mt 7:15. The bad fruit coming from the Gentile church, such as the Roman church, would be with respect to the Roman Catholic priest pedophiles still working around children in the church, or the Inquisitions done by the church, or the Protestants burning the Catholics in Cromwell's war, and the Protestant Catholic wars in Britain and in Europe, or the recent religious war in Ireland. This is the horse you have tied your cart to. Your false prophet Paul tells a good story, but what are the fruits of that story. (Matthew 7:13-14)
Matthew 7:15-17 15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.