WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[2ndpillar]

John 6:22-68

What is your point? Yeshua is the living bread, the Word made flesh, who has the "words of eternal life" (John 6:48-51 & 68-71) whom would choose "the twelve and yet one of you is a devil", with regards to Judas, and yet he also chose one who was "Satan, and a stumbling block to me", in the form of Peter (Matthew 16:23) & (Zechariah 11), except that in Zechariah the LORD chose 3 shepherds, one of who was Paul, and Judas was only 1 of 3, with respect to Zechariah 11:12-13).

 

[2ndpillar]

So do you and @3rdAngel come from the same group?

You would have to inform me of what "group" you are talking about. If she follows the false prophet Paul, and stumbles (Matthew 16:23) behind the "worthless shepherd" Peter, then I would think there is a separation between us.

 

[Windwalker]

You would have to inform me of what "group" you are talking about. If she follows the false prophet Paul, and stumbles (Matthew 16:23) behind the "worthless shepherd" Peter, then I would think there is a separation between us.

Are you a church with one member of yourself alone? Or are there others who think like you do that you are part of a group with?

 

[2ndpillar]

"Keeping" the 4th Commandment​

We have been advised that we should keep the 4th commandment, lest we experience the wrath of God:



So I'd like to know just what kind of 7 day Sabbath we are suppose to "keep". Is it the God ordained 7 Day Sabbath, or is it some sort of hybrid?

Well let's take a look at how God wants us to keep His 7 Day Sabbath, and then we can ask @3rdAngel and @2ndpillar if they keep it the same way.
Perhaps there are "mitigating" factors that they haven't told us about.

It is Exodus 16 when God first mentions his 7 day Sabbath. He communicates it to Moses who then communicates it to all of Israel:

​

Exodus 16:15 When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was.​

Moses said to them, “It is the bread the Lord has given you to eat. 16 This is what the Lord has commanded: ‘Everyone is to gather as much as they need. Take an omer[a] for each person you have in your tent.’”....​

​

Exodus 16:21 Each morning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. 22 On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers[b] for each person—and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. 23 He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” 24 So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. 25 “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the Lord. You will not find any of it on the ground today. 26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.”​

That's our first account. Six days they toiled and gathered, and on the 7th they could rest. We all know what happened. On the 7th Day, despite God's command, many in Israel did not rest. They treated it as any other day. But God holds HIs anger and shows grace instead:

Exodus 16:27 Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. 28 Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long will you[c] refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.​

God reprimands the Jews for not following instructions. They were not "keeping the Sabbath" as he had asked. The following Sabbaths they did.

In Exodus 20, God gives His commandment, including the 4th. Now there is no excuse. Now there is Law. Now there is punishment. What's a law without punishment? Well, it's like a jaywalking law on an empty street. The law may be on the books, but no one enforces the law.

Not so with the 4th commandment! The 4th commandment is not simply a law to the individual, it's a law unto all of Israel, and as our Sabbath keepers have reminded us, it's a law for all mankind. There's room for grace, or an inadvertent stumble, but when you are informed and purposely break the 4th commandment the punishment is severe:

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath​

Numbers 15: 32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.​

​

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.​

The last thing we want to do is intentionally break a Sabbath, but actually "keeping" the Sabbath, "keeping" the 4th commandment, means enforcing it. Otherwise you are NOT keeping the Sabbath the way God commanded, You are simply paying lip service to it.

Surely our Sabbath keepers "keep the Sabbath" rather than "X" a day on their calendar. If someone deliberately breaks the Sabbath, the congregation gathers, invite the wrong-doer out back, and enforce the Sabbath just as God intended.

Is this correct, or is this more of "Do as I say, not as I do"? A talking point to elevate or differentiate Christians, and nothing more?

You can choose to worship the LORD on his mountain, or you can choose to worship the "dragon", in the form of Sol Invictus, on his day, which is the day of the sun. Those who worship the dragon and carry the sign of the "beast", will have to drink from the cup of God's anger. Apparently, it is the "Christians" who will be drinking from the cup of God's anger (Revelation 14:10). On the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) it is those who are on "Mountain Zion" who will escape/survive, and that is with respect to the beginning of the 7th millennium, and the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21). As everyone has free will, they can either choose the narrow or the wide path (Matthew 7:13-15).

Isaiah 56:6 says, “And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD to minister to Him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be His servants— all who keep the Sabbath without profaning it and who hold fast to My covenant— 7 I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer.” 1

 

[2ndpillar]

Are you a church with one member of yourself alone? Or are there others who think like you do that you are part of a group with?

Was John the Baptist a member of the church of the "many", or was he a voice in the wilderness? Are those who "enter into life" among the "many" or among the "few" (Matthew 7:13-15)?

 

[2ndpillar]

Actually, it was the GENTILE believers that were told to abstain from blood, etc. The ogligation that Jewish believers should keep all the laws remained unaltered. And in fact you see that these Jewish believers remained "zealous for Torah." Acts 21:20

It appears that for the "many", both sects failed, but Paul's foundation stemmed from that the "Gentiles" were to be told not eat blood or flesh sacrificed to the gods, for which Paul said there are no gods, so eat what is sacrificed to gods if you are strong in your faith. And actually, it was Paul, according to Paul's associate, assumed to be Luke, who according to Luke 1:1-3, who witnessed nothing, who said that Paul was to go out with that message, which he apparently failed to achieve. With the high rate of "Christian" single parent births, the proscription for abstaining from "fornication" was a failure as well.

 

[Windwalker]

Was John the Baptist a member of the church of the "many", or was he a voice in the wilderness? Are those who "enter into life" among the "many" or among the "few" (Matthew 7:13-15)?

So then yes, you are a lone voice who very few if any listen to.

 

[2ndpillar]

So then yes, you are a lone voice who very few if any listen to.

I don't know. Apparently, you heard my voice. Now, when the "angels" come to "gather" those who "commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42), which happens at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), you cannot say to the Lord, "I didn't know", and your blood will be on your own head.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know. Apparently, you heard my voice. Now, when the "angels" come to "gather" those who "commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:39-42), which happens at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30), you cannot say to the Lord, "I didn't know", and your blood will be on your own head.

And just like that God has all the ammunition he needs to send those who think you a bit off in your ideas straight to hell for the punishment they deserve for doubting you. I understand how you might want to think that.

 

[2ndpillar]

And just like that God has all the ammunition he needs to send those who think you a bit off in your ideas straight to hell for the punishment they deserve for doubting you. I understand how you might want to think that.

I don't know, but it appears you didn't read the "message" of the "son of man", who said his angels are coming for those "who commit lawlessness". (Matthew 13:39-42) And the "furnace of fire" is not "hell". One will find their final rest in your "hell" (lake of fire). With respect to the "furnace of fire", they will "seek death" (Revelation 9:6)

 

[3rdAngel]

You have not once answered my direct question to you. Do you believe your interpretations of scripture are infallible? Yes, or No?

There is no truth in your words. I have indeed answered your questions with scripture which are Gods Words not my words but you do not believe them. According to the scriptures God gives His Spirit to guide and teach those who believe and obey him (Acts 5:29; 32). I believe that God is my guide and teacher though His Spirit as shown in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12.

The fact you continue to evade or ignore that direct question, says strongly to everyone that in fact you do think that, and are unwilling to openly state so because you know others will see how delusion that is. Prove me wrong.

There is no truth in your words. I have provided scripture which is Gods Words not my words to answer your words that are not Gods Word. You choose to ignore the scriptures that are Gods Words that are in direct disagreement with you because you choose darkness rather than coming to the light of Gods Word because you do not believe and obey what Gods Word says in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus in John 3:18-20 "He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. You do not address any of my post content or scriptures that are in disagreement with you because they show why your teachings of lawlessness are not biblical and expose your darkness.

What lawlesses do I teach? You are not answering that question either. What sin is it you accuse me of. Why are you avoiding answering this? Is it because you know how ridiculous you know you will sound directly answering it?

You teach lawlessness (without law) which is sin. According to the scriptures sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law or breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7) and not believing and following what Gods Word says (Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23). In times of ignorance God winks and does not hold us accountable for sin when we do not know any better (James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Words Word in order to continue in our sins the scriptures teach there remains no more sacrifice for our sins but a fearful looking forward to of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom (Matthew 7:21-23) and according to John need to be born again because they do not know God (see 1 John 3:4-10 compare 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures Gods 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is and if we break it just like any one of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Are you willing to gamble your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture.

No I'm not. I'm just seeing in them what you are blinded to because of the lens or the "glass darkly" that you filter the words through. I see what they are saying quite well, read through the lens of Love and Grace (which you likely call "lawlessness" - so it's no wonder you don't answer that direct question. Grace or unconditional love to you is understood as "lawlessness" in your thinking).

Once again you choose to micro-quote my post and continue to ignore the post content and the scriptures and questions asked of you in the post you are quoting from that are in direct disagreement with you and prove why your teachings are in error and not bibical. You are indeed twisting the scriptures because you have to read your interpretation into scripture because your interpretation is not stated in the words of scripture this was proven to you in your cherry picking a scripture from Romans 14 and when asked to show from the scriptures that Romans 14 the context is talking about the Sabbath commandment you were unable to answer this direct question and chose to ignore this post and the questions that were asked of you trying to deflect to me that I was not answering your questions when it is really you who did not answer a single question asked of you in the post you are quoting from. It is you that is blinded in your sins and seeking to justify your sins and is why you choose darkness rather than coming to the light of Gods Word (John 3:18-21). Gods grace leads the believer to love and faith in Gods Words which is expressed in obedience to Gods Word (see Ephesians 2:8-9 compare Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 5:2-3. This is Gods new covenant promise (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12) to all those who believe (Romans 3:31).

Once again, rather than getting bogged down repeating myself, I summarize and do a surgical strike to the source of the error that encompasses everything else. I am not quote-mining (the correct name for the logical fallacy you falsely accuse me of), rather, I am being efficient.

No you simply provide your words denying Gods Word in order to justify sin and when provided scripture that is in direct disagreement with you that prove why your teachings are not biblical you simply choose not to respond and ignore what is written to you. This is not efficiency, not honest and only shows you are seeking to hide yourself from what is true (Gods Word).

Again, with you accusing me of trying to "justify my sins". What sins are you accusing me of??? Again, you need to answer this. I have a right to face my accuser. So what sin are you accusing me of? Or is this just you libeling me with a false accusation in order to make it sound like my argument has no weight because it's coming from a selfish desire to justify my supposed sinful behaviors? This is of course, pure rubbish.

Already answered in the first time you asked this question and I told you the truth but you choose not to believe the scriptures shared with you.

Yes, I know the answer to this as well. It's all you doing that classic logic fallacy of an ad hominem attack.

No your words have no truth in them. We should not be afraid to come to the truth of Gods Word. It is the light the shines on the darkness that shows us if we are in the faith or not in the faith. You choose not to discuss the scriptures with me because the scriptures shine the light on your darkness but the reason God shines the light on our darkness is so we can see the way and so that He can heal us. It is therefore better to see the light that shines on our darkness so that we can find our way to Jesus and He can heal us. Jesus stands at the door and knocks but only we can choose to let him in.

more to come...

 

[3rdAngel]

When you know you're a shaky ground with your opponent in a debate, start attacking them personally as a distraction from the weakness of your position. You accuse me of quote-mining, yet your continued use of ad-hominem attacks are a betrayal that you know you are in a weaker position. Whether you are blind to that or not does change that others can see it. I certainly do.

Once again your deflecting, and your words have no truth in them. Lets talk scripture. It is the scriptures that have provided to you that show you are on shaky ground and it is the scriptures alone (not me) that you ignore and refuse to discuss that prove your teachings are not biblical. You want to talk about anything else but the scriptures which are Gods Words not my words because they show what your saying is not biblical. You only choose to see what you want to in order to justify your sins. According to the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27 if we continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word then there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come. This is something I do not wish on anyone and why I share Gods Word which is the light that shines on the darkness so we can see Jesus and He can heal us.

So, before I discuss Romans 14 with you, and your gross misunderstandings of it,

As posted in the post you are quoting from you are deflecting again. The post you are quoting from that you ignored proves it is you that has a gross misunderstanding of Romans 14 and that your reading your interpretation that is not written in the scriptures into the scripture. As already shared with you earlier through the scriptures, you read into scripture what is not in the scripture. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. I asked you to prove to me from Romans 14 of the book of Romans where Romans 14 is talking about Gods 4th commandment and where does it say Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. All I have heard back from you is silence and you repeating the same argument that have already been addressed through the scriptures you choose to ignore in order to justify your sins. So please do not pretend that your claims in regards to Romans 14 have not been addressed and your still waiting that would be not telling the truth.

SOME POINTS TO CONSIDER IN ROMANS 14:1-23

• [1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
• [2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on
• [3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem: Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
• The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]
• [4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments
• [8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
• [9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

• [10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:
• Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
• Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
• Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
• Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
• [11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
• [12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.
• [13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).
• [14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
• [15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
• [16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".
• [17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
• [18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

CONCLUSION: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes. LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment or any of God's 10 commandments. Your reading into the scriptures something it is not talking about.

No you show me dear friend where does it say in Romans 14 or anywhere in the book of Romans that it is talking about Gods 4th commandments? You are cherry picking scripture and reading Gods 4th commandment into Romans 14 when it is not even mentioned in the scriptures.

more to come...

 

[3rdAngel]

I made that discussion with you dependent upon you coming to me treating me with respect and discussing maturely with me. If you refuse to answer the above questions, then you are not in fact being sincere or respectful to me in this discussion. In summary here are my questions I have ask many times now, and insist upon answers at this point

I treat you and everyone else here with respect but you judge me for sharing scripture which is Gods Word not my words that are in disagreement with you.

Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?

You have repeated this question three time now in this post and it has already been answered. As posted earlier Gods Words are not my words and it is only what Gods words says that I share with you. According to the scriptures we cannot understand Gods Word unless God is our guide and teacher *Isaiah 55:8-9. According to the scriptures, God only gives His Spirit to guide and teach those who believe and obey him (Acts 5:29; 32; Acts 2:38). I believe that God is my guide and teacher though His Spirit as shown in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 given to all those who believe and follow Gods Word. According to John we can know if someone is telling is the truth or not telling us the truth of Gods Word in 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." I am telling you the truth (Gods Word) but you do not believe me. I therefore believe Gods Words that I share with you are infallible and what God teaches me is true.

Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?

According to the scriptures in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin (see James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Word in order to continue in sin God holds us accountable for sin (see Hebrews 10:26-31). I do not judge you or anyone else here. According to Jesus in John 12:47-48 it is the words of God we choose to accept or reject that become our judge come judgement day. I am only here to share Gods Word to shine the light on our darkness so that we can come to the light and see Jesus and he that is calling is can heal us.

When I ever taught lawlessness?

You teach lawlessness, when you claims that sin is not breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments as shown in the scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. Sin is the transgression of the law *1 John 3:4 and breaking anyone of them according to James in James 2:10-11 means we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. Gods 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. According to James if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments it is the same as breaking all of Gods 10 commandments because we stand before God in sin. Therefore if you teach that it is now ok to break Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments you are teachings lawlessness according to the scriptures.

What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?

Answered in the previous section. Once again, I do not accuse you of anything. It is the words of God we choose to reject that accuse us and will be our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48).

Bonus Question: Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you?

Once again, I do not judge you. I have only shared Gods Words with you (scripture) it is the words of God we accept of reject that become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. As it is written in the scriptures, "For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him." - John 3:34 and again in 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So it is Gods Word that shows us who is from God and who is not and if we know God or not. Gods Word is the only definition of what is true or not true (John 17:17; John 6:63) and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 32) over the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition in opposition to the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. The testing questing then remains, who should we believe and follow; God or man?

As I said, I will happily rebut your interpretation of Romans 14 above, which I greatly disagree with, once you answer the above questions honestly. I'm not avoiding answering you. The above questions are the conditions you need to meet first of showing me respect, indicating you can be honest with yourself going forward.

Sharing Gods word with you is not being disrespectful to you dear friend. It is being honest and sharing what the scriptures say and teach. It is being honest with you. If we feel conviction from the scriptures it is Gods Spirit speaking with you and talking with you trying to help us come to the light of Gods Word. So far you have only ignored the scriptures, post content and the questions asked of you that are in disagreement with you. Here is a few extra questions for you that might be helpful to the discussion if you are willing to answer them and not ignore my post content share with you like you have been doing in the past.

Q1. Do we receive Gods salvation if we choose to reject Gods Word and continue to live in a life of known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word?​

​

Q2. Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?​

​

Q3. Where is the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is what John is talking about in Revelation 1:10 referring to "the Lords day"​

​

Q4. What is Jesus warning us about in Matthew 15:3-9?​

​

We are best to believe and follow what Gods Word says. Ignoring them will not make them disappear. They will become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus so it is best to hear an choose to follow Gods Words today. Tomorrow might be too late when Jesus is knock at the door of our hearts today it is up to us to let Him in.

Take Care.

 

[Windwalker]

There is no truth in your words. I have indeed answered your questions with scripture which are Gods Words not my words but you do not believe them. According to the scriptures God gives His Spirit to guide and teach those who believe and obey him (Acts 5:29; 32). I believe that God is my guide and teacher though His Spirit as shown in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12.

There is no truth in your words. I have provided scripture which is Gods Words not my words to answer your words that are not Gods Word. You choose to ignore the scriptures that are Gods Words that are in direct disagreement with you because you choose darkness rather than coming to the light of Gods Word because you do not believe and obey what Gods Word says in fulfillment of the very words of Jesus in John 3:18-20 "He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. You do not address any of my post content or scriptures that are in disagreement with you because they show why your teachings of lawlessness are not biblical and expose your darkness.

You teach lawlessness (without law) which is sin. According to the scriptures sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law or breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7) and not believing and following what Gods Word says (Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23). In times of ignorance God winks and does not hold us accountable for sin when we do not know any better (James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Words Word in order to continue in our sins the scriptures teach there remains no more sacrifice for our sins but a fearful looking forward to of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom (Matthew 7:21-23) and according to John need to be born again because they do not know God (see 1 John 3:4-10 compare 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures Gods 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is and if we break it just like any one of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Are you willing to gamble your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture.

Once again you choose to micro-quote my post and continue to ignore the post content and the scriptures and questions asked of you in the post you are quoting from that are in direct disagreement with you and prove why your teachings are in error and not bibical. You are indeed twisting the scriptures because you have to read your interpretation into scripture because your interpretation is not stated in the words of scripture this was proven to you in your cherry picking a scripture from Romans 14 and when asked to show from the scriptures that Romans 14 the context is talking about the Sabbath commandment you were unable to answer this direct question and chose to ignore this post and the questions that were asked of you trying to deflect to me that I was not answering your questions when it is really you who did not answer a single question asked of you in the post you are quoting from. It is you that is blinded in your sins and seeking to justify your sins and is why you choose darkness rather than coming to the light of Gods Word (John 3:18-21). Gods grace leads the believer to love and faith in Gods Words which is expressed in obedience to Gods Word (see Ephesians 2:8-9 compare Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 5:2-3. This is Gods new covenant promise (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12) to all those who believe (Romans 3:31).

No you simply provide your words denying Gods Word in order to justify sin and when provided scripture that is in direct disagreement with you that prove why your teachings are not biblical you simply choose not to respond and ignore what is written to you. This is not efficiency, not honest and only shows you are seeking to hide yourself from what is true (Gods Word).

Already answered in the first time you asked this question and I told you the truth but you choose not to believe the scriptures shared with you.

No your words have no truth in them. We should not be afraid to come to the truth of Gods Word. It is the light the shines on the darkness that shows us if we are in the faith or not in the faith. You choose not to discuss the scriptures with me because the scriptures shine the light on your darkness but the reason God shines the light on our darkness is so we can see the way and so that He can heal us. It is therefore better to see the light that shines on our darkness so that we can find our way to Jesus and He can heal us. Jesus stands at the door and knocks but only we can choose to let him in.

more to come...

Holy Banananas from the 600 pound gorrilla in the middle of the room! Yikes.

Let's try this again, and just keep them to simply yes or no answers, or short answers using your own words without barraging me with a 1000 bible references to hide yourself behind:

1. Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?
2. Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself? Yes, or no?
3. When I ever taught lawlessness?
4. What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?
5. Bonus Question: Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you? Yes or no?

 

[Windwalker]

I treat you and everyone else here with respect

By telling them they are trying to justify their sins and are mocking God? Wow! I hate to see what you're like when you disrespect someone!

but you judge me for sharing scripture which is Gods Word not my words that are in disagreement with you.

What??? Seriously??? You think someone saying they disagree with you is showing you disrepect? Your skin is seriously that thin, is it? I feel very sorry for you. It must be difficult being that sensitive.

Q1. Do we receive Gods salvation if we choose to reject Gods Word and continue to live in a life of known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word?

I'll take these on since these are actual question about my views, which you've never asked me about before.

I do not view beliefs about the Bible to be equal to belief in God. I do not view the Bible as a Divine Person, or the 4th Person in the Trinity. That said however, I do respect the teachings of it as paths to spiritual knowledge of God. Yes. Does someone need to follow the Way, or the Law of Love that Jesus taught as the path to the knowledge of the Divine in their lives? Yes. That obviously entails changing course, which is the meaning of the word "repentance".

But I also believe God speaks to us in many ways, not just words of ink on pages of paper. I do not believe we can simply read the teachings of Wisdom and understand them, if our hearts are full of fear and darkness. Doing that leads to things like legalism and trying to earn love through following external rules, and judging others who don't live up to your ideas of what those are as you interpret them from scripture, read through the filters of fear.

Q2. Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?​

There isn't one specific verse. But there doesn't need to be. There is no one specific verse that directly calls out abolishing each of the other 612 commandments either, but that doesn't stop you, does it? No, that's not the correct way of handling Christian teachings and understandings. That's a bad hermeneutic on your part, or dare I say, a wrong interpretation of scripture on your part?

Q3. Where is the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is what John is talking about in Revelation 1:10 referring to "the Lords day"

That's irrelevant, as I understand that Christ is our Rest, and the sabbath was but a way to point to That which is fulfilled in the Love of God found in "easy yoke" of the teachings of Jesus, that "Love is the fulfillment of the law".

Going to church is a formality, or a support mechanism. It's not a requirement to knowing God. You could go on Tuesdays if you wanted. God doesn't care. "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". It's not for God's sake.... for God's sake! LOL

​

Q4. What is Jesus warning us about in Matthew 15:3-9?​

That again would support what I am against your legalism for, for the same reasons. They were placing the letter of the law, ahead of the spirit of the law, or the intention of it. They would use their religiosity, their strict adherence and interpretation of the letters of the law, to overlook the weightier matters of the law, which is to "love others as yourself". They would use "being religious", or "observing the commandments", as an excuse to not honor their mother or father.

This is the exact problem here with your whole "7th day" fixation. You strain at gnats, while you call me a "teacher of lawlessness", and a sinner who mocks God because I disagree with you. That is overlooking the weightier matters of the law, which is to "love others as yourself". Do you hate yourself that much? Do you treat yourself that way?

If so, would that you understand the Love of God in your life. It must be miserable for you.

 

[3rdAngel]

By telling them they are trying to justify their sins and are mocking God? Wow! I hate to see what you're like when you disrespect someone!

What??? Seriously??? You think someone saying they disagree with you is showing you disrepect? Your skin is seriously that thin, is it? I feel very sorry for you. It must be difficult being that sensitive.

I'll take these on since these are actual question about my views, which you've never asked me about before.

I do not view beliefs about the Bible to be equal to belief in God. I do not view the Bible as a Divine Person, or the 4th Person in the Trinity. That said however, I do respect the teachings of it as paths to spiritual knowledge of God. Yes. Does someone need to follow the Way, or the Law of Love that Jesus taught as the path to the knowledge of the Divine in their lives? Yes. That obviously entails changing course, which is the meaning of the word "repentance".

But I also believe God speaks to us in many ways, not just words of ink on pages of paper. I do not believe we can simply read the teachings of Wisdom and understand them, if our hearts are full of fear and darkness. Doing that leads to things like legalism and trying to earn love through following external rules, and judging others who don't live up to your ideas of what those are as you interpret them from scripture, read through the filters of fear.


There isn't one specific verse. But there doesn't need to be. There is no one specific verse that directly calls out abolishing each of the other 612 commandments either, but that doesn't stop you, does it? No, that's not the correct way of handling Christian teachings and understandings. That's a bad hermeneutic on your part, or dare I say, a wrong interpretation of scripture on your part?

That's irrelevant, as I understand that Christ is our Rest, and the sabbath was but a way to point to That which is fulfilled in the Love of God found in "easy yoke" of the teachings of Jesus, that "Love is the fulfillment of the law".

Going to church is a formality, or a support mechanism. It's not a requirement to knowing God. You could go on Tuesdays if you wanted. God doesn't care. "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". It's not for God's sake.... for God's sake! LOL

That again would support what I am against your legalism for, for the same reasons. They were placing the letter of the law, ahead of the spirit of the law, or the intention of it. They would use their religiosity, their strict adherence and interpretation of the letters of the law, to overlook the weightier matters of the law, which is to "love others as yourself". They would use "being religious", or "observing the commandments", as an excuse to not honor their mother or father.

This is the exact problem here with your whole "7th day" fixation. You strain at gnats, while you call me a "teacher of lawlessness", and a sinner who mocks God because I disagree with you. That is overlooking the weightier matters of the law, which is to "love others as yourself". Do you hate yourself that much? Do you treat yourself that way?

If so, would that you understand the Love of God in your life. It must be miserable for you.

Thank you then what I have been sharing with you from the scriptures is true. You do not believe and follow what Gods Word (the bible) says which is why your are hiding from the scriptures that have been shared with you that prove what you say is not true. It is not legalism to believe and obey what Gods Word says. Not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is the very definition of what sin is according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23. According to scripture, those who do not believe and obey what Gods Word says do not know God 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." and in 1 John 3:6-10, John goes on to show that sin (breaking Gods law) is the fruit of the children of the devil. James agrees in James 2:13-26 where he says the devils believe but do not obey Gods Word. So if we claims to believe Gods Word but do not obey Gods Word according to James all we have is the dead faith of devils. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 7:21-23 when he says "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity (sin)." According to the scriptures we are saved by Gods grace through faith it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). Genuine faith therefore according to Jesus, James and Paul are all in agreement that genuine saving faith believes and obeys what Gods Word says (see Romans 3:31). What you are promoting here is a teaching of lawlessness and the dead faith of devils that Jesus, James and Paul all warn us against in the scriptures. We should therefore choose to believe and follow what Gods Word says over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9 and Matthew 7:13-23.

Take care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Holy Banananas from the 600 pound gorrilla in the middle of the room! Yikes.

Let's try this again, and just keep them to simply yes or no answers, or short answers using your own words without barraging me with a 1000 bible references to hide yourself behind:

1. Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?
2. Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself? Yes, or no?
3. When I ever taught lawlessness?
4. What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?
5. Bonus Question: Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you? Yes or no?

Yep I did not think you would respond to any of the scriptures and post content you are responding to. Please do not be dishonest dear friend. All your questions were answered which is why you do not quote them here. Re-posted here again for all to see....

Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?

You have repeated this question three time now in this post and it has already been answered. As posted earlier Gods Words are not my words and it is only what Gods words says that I share with you. According to the scriptures we cannot understand Gods Word unless God is our guide and teacher *Isaiah 55:8-9. According to the scriptures, God only gives His Spirit to guide and teach those who believe and obey him (Acts 5:29; 32; Acts 2:38). I believe that God is my guide and teacher though His Spirit as shown in John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27 which is a part of Gods new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 given to all those who believe and follow Gods Word. According to John we can know if someone is telling is the truth or not telling us the truth of Gods Word in 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." I am telling you the truth (Gods Word) but you do not believe me. I therefore believe Gods Words that I share with you are infallible and what God teaches me is true.

Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?

According to the scriptures in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin (see James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Word in order to continue in sin God holds us accountable for sin (see Hebrews 10:26-31). I do not judge you or anyone else here. According to Jesus in John 12:47-48 it is the words of God we choose to accept or reject that become our judge come judgement day. I am only here to share Gods Word to shine the light on our darkness so that we can come to the light and see Jesus and he that is calling is can heal us.

When I ever taught lawlessness?

You teach lawlessness, when you claims that sin is not breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments as shown in the scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4. Sin is the transgression of the law *1 John 3:4 and breaking anyone of them according to James in James 2:10-11 means we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. Gods 4th commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. According to James if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments it is the same as breaking all of Gods 10 commandments because we stand before God in sin. Therefore if you teach that it is now ok to break Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments you are teachings lawlessness according to the scriptures.

What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?

Answered in the previous section. Once again, I do not accuse you of anything. It is the words of God we choose to reject that accuse us and will be our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48).

Bonus Question: Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you?

Once again, I do not judge you. I have only shared Gods Words with you (scripture) it is the words of God we accept of reject that become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. As it is written in the scriptures, "For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him." - John 3:34 and again in 1 John 2:3-4 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So it is Gods Word that shows us who is from God and who is not and if we know God or not. Gods Word is the only definition of what is true or not true (John 17:17; John 6:63) and we should believe and follow them (Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 32) over the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition in opposition to the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. The testing questing then remains, who should we believe and follow; God or man?

 

[Windwalker]

Yep I did not think you would respond to any of the scriptures and post content you are responding to.

Exactly as you planned by deludging me with a thousand verses offering no interpretations on your part, other than to claim with a blanket statement they all support your view. So, likewise, I take all your verses and offer them right back at you and say they all support my view. Since you haven't explained how they don't, then you are ignoring God's word.

Your tactics are impotent.

Please do not be dishonest dear friend. All your questions were answered which is why you do not quote them here. Re-posted here again for all to see....

I asked for simple, short, in your words explanations, without you barraging the post with a hundred references which you don't bother to explain in your own words and thoughts. You have not, and absolutely are refusing to answer in simple yes or no responses. So therefore... you have answered. I will share your answers for everyone bothering to read this at this point, to hear in simple, unobfuscated language.

You have repeated this question three time now in this post and it has already been answered. As posted earlier Gods Words are not my words and it is only what Gods words says that I share with you.

Question asked: "Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?"

Your answer simplified, "YES. I believe my interpretations of scripture are infallible. In fact, I don't interpret it at all. Whatever I read and than think about what it says, is the truth of it. And if anyone reads it differently, I am right, and they are wrong. Because my thoughts are God's thoughts, and everyone but me is wrong"

According to the scriptures in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God does not hold us accountable for sin

My Question: "Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?"

Your answer simplified: "YES. Because you disagree with me, you disagree with God. And that is sin. If you believed in God, you would believe in me."

This is an indication of delusions of grandeur. To believe oneself infallible, and that they cannot be wrong about anything they believe or do in their actions to others, is a dysfunctional issue.

You teach lawlessness, when you claims that sin is not breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments as shown in the scriptures

My question: "Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?"

Your simplified answer: "YES. Because I read the Bible a certain way, and that is it the right way, because I don't interpret anything, I just read what it says and don't say my thoughts about it at all, so when you teach something other than what seems clear to me, you must hate God. It's very simple when understood with that logic. You hate God and teach lawlessness and sin, because you don't believe it the way I believe it."

"Here's a bunch of scripture verses I believe support me... xxxxxxxxxxxxx.............."

Answered in the previous section. Once again, I do not accuse you of anything. It is the words of God we choose to reject that accuse us and will be our judge come judgement day (see John 12:47-48).

My question: "What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?"

Your answer simplified: "Your sins are disagreeing with my interpretation of the Bible, which is not an interpretation, it's what it says. Since you don't see what it says, you're a sinner". It's not ME calling you that, it's God!"

Yeah. As I said, these are indications of delusions of grandeur. You don't see yourself doing anything offensive to anyone at all, because it's "Not my words, it's God's words. It's not me judging, it's God judging."

I feel so sad for you.

Once again, I do not judge you. I have only shared Gods Words with you (scripture) it is the words of God we accept of reject that become our judge come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.

My Question: "Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you?"

Your simplified answer: "YES. As I've said, It's not me judging you, it's God. Whatever I say is supported by scripture, and I do not interpret anything as I have a direct line to the Truth bypassing any and all of my thoughts. I am sinless. I am unbiased. I do not take any responsibility for judging others, as I'm not doing anything wrong."

Thanks for your time. It's been illuminating on many levels for me. I hope some light may have seeped through some cracks somewhere in this concrete slab of faith you have constructed to protect yourself from self-awareness.

I don't see a point in "come now, let us reason together", when you are unable and unwilling to look at anything you believe, think, or say to others as anything that you are responsible for, or could possibly be wrong. It's not possible to discuss anything when you are unwilling to examine yourself in anything you think, say, or do.

 

[3rdAngel]

Exactly as you planned by deludging me with a thousand verses offering no interpretations on your part, other than to claim with a blanket statement they all support your view. So, likewise, I take all your verses and offer them right back at you and say they all support my view. Since you haven't explained how they don't, then you are ignoring God's word.

No it was not as I planned at all. I knew you would not respond to all the scriptures shared with you that are in direct disagreement with you because this is what you have been doing with all my posts so far. There is a lot of scripture and it is directly in disagreement with you. It was only provided as a help to you so show you why your teachings and claims are not biblical or supported in the scriptures but you still continue to choose not to believe them when they are Gods Words only sent in love and as a help to you. There is not a single scripture that I have posted to you that supports anything that you are saying here. That should be a red flag to you that perhaps what you believe is not true.

Your tactics are impotent.

Not really sharing scripture is the only biblical standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and not believing them or obeying them according to the scriptures is sin (see Romans 14:23; James 4:17; 1 John 3:4). According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives them a knowledge of the truth of His Words are in danger of the judgement to come unless they repent of their sins and confess them to God and return to Him with all their heart (Hebrews 10:26-31).

I asked for simple, short, in your words explanations, without you barraging the post with a hundred references which you don't bother to explain in your own words and thoughts. You have not, and absolutely are refusing to answer in simple yes or no responses. So therefore... you have answered. I will share your answers for everyone bothering to read this at this point, to hear in simple, unobfuscated language. Question asked: "Are your interpretations of scripture infallible? Yes or no?"
Your answer simplified, "YES. I believe my interpretations of scripture are infallible. In fact, I don't interpret it at all. Whatever I read and than think about what it says, is the truth of it. And if anyone reads it differently, I am right, and they are wrong. Because my thoughts are God's thoughts, and everyone but me is wrong"

Your not being truthful or honest here dear friend. Sadly you are trying to put a spin on my words as a response to your question that I was never saying. As posted already, God's Word is the only standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and it is the Words of God that are the only standard of what truth is (John 17:17) and it is the Words of God (not my words) that I share with you here. So please do not pretend to say things I have never said or claimed. That would be bearing false witness and sin. If you do not understand what I have shared with you from the scriptures you are welcome to ask questions for clarity.

My Question: "Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?" Your answer simplified: "YES. Because you disagree with me, you disagree with God. And that is sin. If you believed in God, you would believe in me." This is an indication of delusions of grandeur. To believe oneself infallible, and that they cannot be wrong about anything they believe or do in their actions to others, is a dysfunctional issue.

Your not being truthful or honest here as well dear friend. Sadly once again, you are trying to put a spin on my words as a response to your question that I was never saying.As posted already, God's Word is the only standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and it is the Words of God that are the only standard of what truth is (John 17:17) and it is the Words of God (not my words) that I share with you here. So please do not pretend to say things I have never said or claimed. That would be bearing false witness and sin. If you do not understand what I have shared with you from the scriptures you are welcome to ask questions for clarity. Again, I do not judge you or anyone here according to Jesus it is the words of God we accept or reject that will become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48. So once again it is the scriptures that are the standard of what is true and what is not true and it is only the scriptures that have been shared with you here which is Gods Words not mine that you are in disagreement with and do not want to discuss. So lets be honest in our discussions please.

My question: "Do you see me or anyone else who disagrees with your reading of the Bible as an act of sin, or an act of mocking God Himself?"
Your simplified answer: "YES. Because I read the Bible a certain way, and that is it the right way, because I don't interpret anything, I just read what it says and don't say my thoughts about it at all, so when you teach something other than what seems clear to me, you must hate God. It's very simple when understood with that logic. You hate God and teach lawlessness and sin, because you don't believe it the way I believe it." "Here's a bunch of scripture verses I believe support me... xxxxxxxxxxxxx.............."

Again, your not being truthful or honest here as well dear friend. As posted already, God's Word is the only standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and it is the Words of God that are the only standard of what truth is (John 17:17) and it is the Words of God (not my words) that I share with you here. So please do not pretend to say things I have never said or claimed. That would be bearing false witness and sin. If you do not understand what I have shared with you from the scriptures you are welcome to ask questions for clarity. Again, I do not judge you or anyone here according to Jesus it is the words of God we accept or reject that will become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48. So once again it is the scriptures that are the standard of what is true and what is not true and it is only the scriptures that have been shared with you here which is Gods Words not mine that you are in disagreement with and do not want to discuss. So lets be honest in our discussions please.

My question: "What sins are you accusing me of, that you claim my reading of scripture to justify or excuse?" Your answer simplified: "Your sins are disagreeing with my interpretation of the Bible, which is not an interpretation, it's what it says. Since you don't see what it says, you're a sinner". It's not ME calling you that, it's God!"
Yeah. As I said, these are indications of delusions of grandeur. You don't see yourself doing anything offensive to anyone at all, because it's "Not my words, it's God's words. It's not me judging, it's God judging." I feel so sad for you.

Again, your not being truthful or honest here as well dear friend. As posted already, God's Word is the only standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and it is the Words of God that are the only standard of what truth is (John 17:17) and it is the Words of God (not my words) that I share with you here not my words that you do not believe and deny with your words that are not Gods Word. So please do not pretend to say things I have never said or claimed. That would be bearing false witness and sin. If you do not understand what I have shared with you from the scriptures you are welcome to ask questions for clarity. Again, I do not judge you or anyone here according to Jesus it is the words of God we accept or reject that will become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48. So once again it is the scriptures that are the standard of what is true and what is not true and it is only the scriptures that have been shared with you here which is Gods Words not mine that you are in disagreement with and do not want to discuss. So lets be honest in our discussions please. Do not feel sorry for me dear friend, as I believe and follow what Gods Word says. Feel sorry for all those who choose to harden their hearts and close their eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods Words so as they will be lost if they do not repent from their sins and return to believing and obeying what Gods Word says.

My Question: "Are you God that you can judge me or others who disagree with you?" Your simplified answer: "YES. As I've said, It's not me judging you, it's God. Whatever I say is supported by scripture, and I do not interpret anything as I have a direct line to the Truth bypassing any and all of my thoughts. I am sinless. I am unbiased. I do not take any responsibility for judging others, as I'm not doing anything wrong." Thanks for your time. It's been illuminating on many levels for me. I hope some light may have seeped through some cracks somewhere in this concrete slab of faith you have constructed to protect yourself from self-awareness. I don't see a point in "come now, let us reason together", when you are unable and unwilling to look at anything you believe, think, or say to others as anything that you are responsible for, or could possibly be wrong. It's not possible to discuss anything when you are unwilling to examine yourself in anything you think, say, or do.

Again, your not being truthful or honest here as well dear friend. As posted already, God's Word is the only standard of what is true and what is not true (Romans 3:4) and it is the Words of God that are the only standard of what truth is (John 17:17) and it is the Words of God (not my words) that I share with you here not my words that you do not believe and deny with your words that are not Gods Word. So please do not pretend to say things I have never said or claimed. That would be bearing false witness and sin according to the scriptures. I agree with you on the point that there is no use in us continuing our discussion if you choose to close your eyes and ears to seeing and hearing and believing and following what Gods Word says. I will leave it between you and God to work through and hope only the best for you.

Take Care.

 

[Oeste]

@Oeste I see you did not get an answer to your question.

Thank you for asking @nPeace, but the answer is unfortunately no. I'm still trying to find out when God first instructed man to OBSERVE the 7th Day. As you reminded us, 3rdAngel's contention is that mankind was COMMANDED to observe it since the 7th creative day.

He's been very good at showing us God rested and blessed the 7th Day, just not so much on when man was first COMMANDED to OBSERVE it. For that, it seems we have to go to Exodus, but @3rdAngel disagrees.

But like you, @Brian2, @Windwalker and others I am really making an effort to understand the scriptural rationale our Sabbath keeping friends have yoked themselves into.

Actually no you did not answer this before. Please show me a single scripture in all the bible that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day".

You haven't quite gotten it right yet. I did not say the Lord's Day was Sunday. I stated that the Lord's Day was the 1st day of the week, which we associate with Sunday.

In Europe, the 1st day of the week is associated with Monday. In China, Monday is also the first day of the week.

Most of the Middle East considers SATURDAY the first day of the week.

The point you miss is this: We celebrate the Resurrection rather than the "Day". With you, the DAY of celebration is important. With us, it's the fact Christ ROSE.

We become a NEW CREATION in Christ, allowing us to rest in his fully completed work. We don't have to add a side of horse radish, a little mayo, nor by grabbing a goat to sacrifice at the temple.

Besides, if we we could do that, and still be square with God, then Christ need not have come.

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. (2 Cor 5:17)​

So Resurrection Day is the "8th" creative day, a brand new day, a gift from our Creator, where sinners, all those who now believe in Christ, are "reborn" as new creations in Christ.

Do you understand the difference here? Rather than focus on the Day we rather focus on Christ. We are more giddy about his resurrection than we are about Sundays and Mondays.

But don't get me wrong. If you want to celebrate Saturdays, go ahead. As a believer in Christ, you have a perfect right to do so. Just remember...

1. There is no command TO do so
2. There is no command NOT to do so
3. There is no punishment either way

The freedom to do as you choose, yet still remain close to God, is a reward for recognizing and believing in Christ. It's the same reward Adam had at the beginning, yet he stopped believing in God. Christ's resurrection proved his words as true, and it was such a relief to those who had been bound and enslaved to sin and the law that many began to celebrate daily. Now we can give ANY day to the Lord, just as Adam, before sin, gave his. There is no need to wait for a 7th or special holiday. God completed His work on the 7th Day, so that man could rest, and when man fell out of rest, Christ completed his work so that we could once again do the same.

That's it in a nutshell. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Enjoy your rest in Christ, trust in his completed work, and rejoice in the freedom he offers.